"What if's" of sports history

[King Kamala]

How good do you think the Minnesota Timberwolves would have been if they had drafted Steph Curry in '09? Do you think him and Ricky Rubio would have been able to coexist? Is it possible they would become championship contenders by the mid 2010s?

 

[King Kamala]

LeBron James reportedly had Knicks as top choice in 2010 before meeting: 'They didn't have anything prepared'

The Knicks have had trouble attracting star free agents for the last decade, and they reportedly botched their meeting with LeBron James in 2010.

www.sny.tv

What if Knicks franchise weren't such incompetent boobs (huge stretch of imagination, I know) and they actually managed to sign LeBron in the Summer of 2010?

IIRC Knicks had room for a couple of max spots so they probably still sign Amare. I wonder where Bosh goes and where Melo goes. I'm guessing maybe Nets? Eastern Conference becomes a lot more interesting/competitive in the early 2010s IMO. Maybe Old Dawg Celtics are able to pull off one last run in 2012.

 

[Baby Shoes]

How good do you think the Minnesota Timberwolves would have been if they had drafted Steph Curry in '09? Do you think him and Ricky Rubio would have been able to coexist? Is it possible they would become championship contenders by the mid 2010s?

I don’t think Wolves would’ve been contenders. They’d still need a lot of pieces and leadership. People treated Rubio like a star but to me he’s cemented as the Andre Miller of this generation. He’s solid, he will get you a double double but he isn’t going to be a major difference maker. So you’d have them getting in each other’s way, maybe a motivated Kevin Love, then what?

I liked Curry in college and viewed him as a guy who maybe gets an All-Star appearance or two. Bringing in Kerr and that system was huge, plus they’ve had the right talents to cater to his play. As much as I love Steph and know he’s a sure fire Hall of Famer, in all those championships and appearances, he never really had a defining Finals appearance. No way his rep is anywhere closer to the same unless Minnesota falls into someone like Kerr and similar prices in later drafts and acquisitions. But that’s asking for way too much star alignment.

 

[King Kamala]

Yeah, I don't think Rubio/Curry/Love is a good enough core to be a finals contender. Perennial playoff team maybe but also got to remember David Kahn was GM during this era so I'm sure he would have surrounded them with garbage.

 

[Baby Shoes]

Yeah, I don't think Rubio/Curry/Love is a good enough core to be a finals contender. Perennial playoff team maybe but also got to remember David Kahn was GM during this era so I'm sure he would have surrounded them with garbage.

Kevin Love plus 11 point guards.

Only way to solve is have Love play Point Forward.

 

[King Kamala]

Team would've shattered records for most 24 second violations cause everybody is too busy passing the ball and no one knows when to shoot.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Yeah, I don't think Rubio/Curry/Love is a good enough core to be a finals contender. Perennial playoff team maybe but also got to remember David Kahn was GM during this era so I'm sure he would have surrounded them with garbage.

Agreed. At best I could see them being like the 2012 & 2013 Golden State Warriors, winning 49-53 games a year but not really going into deep playoff runs. What really helped Curry was that he had Klay as a second scorer alongside Iguadola (could handle the perimeter defensively) and Draymond Green (perfect do anything role player) who were both fantastic defensively.

Minnesota had BIG AL in 2009 but moved on the next year and then Kevin Love started coming into his own. I think at best Steph would have been in the Damian Lillard mold of a good scorer on a mediocre team that could challenge for the playoffs in the right given year but not make a hard playoff push year in/year out.

 

[King Kamala]

The Ex-Lakers All-Star Team

Los Angeles has traded or released so many draftees since its last playoff appearance in 2013 that you could make a team out of them. So we did.

www.theringer.com

Reading this article. Am I crazy or would the Ex Lakers make a pretty good team hypothetically? Not like championship contenders but perennial 45 to 50 wins type team.

 

[AA484]

The Ex-Lakers All-Star Team

Los Angeles has traded or released so many draftees since its last playoff appearance in 2013 that you could make a team out of them. So we did.

www.theringer.com

Reading this article. Am I crazy or would the Ex Lakers make a pretty good team hypothetically? Not like championship contenders but perennial 45 to 50 wins type team.

This team is probably a 6 seed, even in the west.

 

[King Kamala]

Like The Knicks would be psyched to have all of the guys the Lakers threw away the last 5 or 6 years (and them overpaying Julius Randle kind of proves that)

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Here are some interesting ones out of boredom...
#3: What if June Jones doesn't get fired after the 3-13 season in 1996? How would that impact Hawaii's future fate? Would the Run & Shoot have carried over at the NFL level into the early 2000s with Gilbride also being San Diego's HC in 1997? Does the "slot" WR become more of a staple earlier than 2007 after the explosion of Welker with the Patriots?

I'm gonna answer this one mostly because it just fascinates me. I do think Atlanta makes some noise by 2000 under June Jones with their offense. They draft a QB high in the 1997 NFL Draft and have a good nucleus with RB Jamal Anderson, WR Bert Emanuel, and WR Terance Mathis. Eric Metcalf moves on to San Diego after Kevin Gilbride gets hired there. Atlanta signs a free agent WR, maybe getting Haywood Jeffires to stick it out for 2 more seasons, and lands another through the '97 NFL Draft.

Atlanta probably drafts Jake Plummer high in the 1st Round instead of Plummer falling to Arizona in the 2nd Round. They likely take Dedric Ward in Round 2 (instead of the Jets getting him in Round 3) and take another RB late such as Nicky Sualua.

A few more teams experiment with Run & Shoot concepts but none take them on fully except for San Diego under Gilbride. I think June Jones lasts in Atlanta until around 2002 before he lands with the expansion Houston Texans. He makes a couple deep playoff runs but is mostly remembered as a guy who couldn't win the Super Bowl not unlike the early 90s Houston Oilers teams. Gilbride sticks with San Diego through 2001 but bounces around afterwards as an OC, maybe landing with June in Houston eventually. June eventually moves down to college in 2008 or 2009 with Gilbride taking over the Texans for 3-4 more seasons before he also gets fired.

The "slot" receiver becomes more of a trademark for teams by 2001-2002 with St. Louis' success on top of what Atlanta and the Colts' use of 3 WR sets. Passing numbers really take off in 2002/2003 instead of the late 2000s. NFL teams make more overtures to guys like Mike Leach from college to try and get an edge offensively in the NFL.

Hawaii ends up hiring Paul Johnson in 1999 as their HC where he revolutionizes the program with his Flexbone Offense. They become a solid mid-tier program capable of 9-10 wins in a given season but don't quite have the prestige they had under Jones.

The Run & Shoot as an offense ends up making a return at the college level at several FBS programs under guys who coached/played under June and Gilbride. It never quite hits the 80s heyday of Houston w/Klingler & Ware (or Hawaii in the mid 2000s) but it gets more respectability in the media as the Air Raid and other passing offenses get more focus.

 

[King Kamala]

Woj has a new podcast about Giannis' life leading up to him being drafted and they talk about how it was assumed he would fall to the Atlanta Hawks with the 17th pick in the 2013 NBA Draft.

Wondered how different things would be if Giannis went to Atlanta, which was a really solid franchise in the mid 2010s instead of to rebuilding Milwaukee? It changes whole dynamic of Eastern Conference for the next decade probably. Who knows how Giannis develops differently if he starts his career on a playoff contender (remember the Hawks were the #1 seed in Eastern Conference in 2015 playoffs) instead of one of the worst teams in NBA at the time?

Also no way in hell that Milwaukee still has an NBA team if they passed up on the Greek Freak.

 

[King Kamala]

Here's one for @HarleyQuinn . New England Patriots almost traded up from #3 to #1 in the 1990 NFL Draft (along with two future first round picks) to get Jeff George. Somehow, I feel like that leads to a horrible Sliding Doors scenario where the Patriots are still one of the worst franchises in the NFL.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Here's one for @HarleyQuinn . New England Patriots almost traded up from #3 to #1 in the 1990 NFL Draft (along with two future first round picks) to get Jeff George. Somehow, I feel like that leads to a horrible Sliding Doors scenario where the Patriots are still one of the worst franchises in the NFL.

I think Rod Rust would have still been fired. They probably would have gone 3-13/4-12 instead but Jeff George would have been an interesting focal point at QB. People forget those Colts teams were bad, limited in weapons offensively, and Jeff George was productive when put in systems that highlighted his strengths and had legitimate weapons around him.

New England would get Ben Coates in the 5th Round the next year and had some young WR talent in Greg McMurtry and Michael Timpson to go alongside Irving Fryar. The biggest thing would be not needing Drew Bledsoe in 1993 and I think Bill Parcells would have not only still come in as HC by 1993 but probably gone after a Willie Roaf or DE/DT Dan Williams if they were picking around that 8-11 area.

One thing that fascinates me...
What If Jimmy Johnson had stuck with Miami into the early 2000s? He was still a draft genius as far as pick accumulation (12 in 1996, 14 in 1997, 10 in 1998, and 8 in 1999). Wannstache took teams that were 10-6/9-7 and went 11-5 in 2000, 2001, and 9-7 in 2002 largely with JJ's roster.

 

[alfdogg]

Like The Knicks would be psyched to have all of the guys the Lakers threw away the last 5 or 6 years (and them overpaying Julius Randle kind of proves that)

This post hasn't aged very well. Sorry Kamala

 

[King Kamala]

Glad for @Big Beard Booty Daddy and @Brooklyn Zoo 's sake that I was wrong.

 

[BruiserBrody]

One thing that fascinates me...
What If Jimmy Johnson had stuck with Miami into the early 2000s? He was still a draft genius as far as pick accumulation (12 in 1996, 14 in 1997, 10 in 1998, and 8 in 1999). Wannstache took teams that were 10-6/9-7 and went 11-5 in 2000, 2001, and 9-7 in 2002 largely with JJ's roster.

I do love Jimmy's multi year quest to find a new Emmitt. John Avery, Cecil the Diesel, Kareem AJ, etc.

Jimmy openly said when he took over that he was willing to trade Marino, which could have created an interesting short term scenario depending where he landed.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Jeff George should have been a hof-level player. He was fucked by bad systems and never got a real chance before it was too late to settle in anywhere.

 

[King Kamala]

OK Jason Whitlock

The circa early '90s Patriots were the exact WRONG franchise and early '90s New England was exact wrong area to nurture Jeff George's raw talent. He would have been even more of a bust than he already was plus the Pats might have never drafted Drew Bledsoe who started the long turn around that eventually led to dynasty.

 

[snuffbox]

He was doomed starting his NFL career with the Irsays and then Atlanta. He would've done well with Holmgren.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

OK Jason Whitlock

man wth

George had great size, mobility for the time and a cannon for an arm. He developed touch and an ability to read defences even when he was old and put up pro bowl numbers. If he had the chance when he was young, he would have been great.

 

[King Kamala]

Woj has a new podcast about Giannis' life leading up to him being drafted and they talk about how it was assumed he would fall to the Atlanta Hawks with the 17th pick in the 2013 NBA Draft.

Wondered how different things would be if Giannis went to Atlanta, which was a really solid franchise in the mid 2010s instead of to rebuilding Milwaukee? It changes whole dynamic of Eastern Conference for the next decade probably. Who knows how Giannis develops differently if he starts his career on a playoff contender (remember the Hawks were the #1 seed in Eastern Conference in 2015 playoffs) instead of one of the worst teams in NBA at the time?

Also no way in hell that Milwaukee still has an NBA team if they passed up on the Greek Freak.

Sorry for putting myself over again but this question seems especially interesting now that Hawks & Bucks are against each other in the Conference Finals. Plus Coach Bud now coaching for Milwaukee.

I still believe if they don't stumble ass backwards into Greek Freak, we'd have the Seattle Bucks now. If Giannis was on the 2014-15 Hawks, I doubt they beat the Cavs in the ECF but I bet they wouldn't have gotten swept. Also they probably don't feel the need to rebuild. Does a core of Giannis- Jeff Teague-Al Horford-Dennis Schroeder core do better than the late 2010s Milwaukee Bucks? Idk. Probably about equivalent? Al Horford is probably better than any player that Giannis has played with but are two of them together good enough to say prevent Toronto's championship in 2019? Idk.

 

[King Kamala]

What if the Golden State Warriors had traded Klay Thompson and draft picks for James Harden in 2012?

Would OKC actually win a title? Would the Warriors still be the dynasty of the 2010s? Would James Harden's reputation improve tenfold? Would we still be having Warriors-Thunder Conference Finals to this day? I feel like it'd be the rare trade where both teams getting exponentially better.

 

[alfdogg]

I'm not sure it makes the Warriors better. Maybe short-term, but I could have seen Harden and Curry clashing at some point and Harden eventually getting shipped away again.

The bigger one IMO is what if Klay was traded for Kevin Love in 2014 as was rumored? Idk that I see a GS run like they had in that scenario either.

 

[King Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478107010373767170

This is a pretty crazy Sliding Door scenario. If Manny leaves Boston in the middle of his prime, it certainly effects immediate future. Long term though, I highly doubt the Curse continues to this day if Manny leaves. Maybe they break it in 2007 instead of 2004 but I think it happens eventually regardless. In fact, maybe their pursuit of ARod is more persistent in the '03 offseason and they actually get the deal done if they don't have Manny around as back up option.

Weirdly, I think ARod is effected by this What If? just as much as Manny. If Manny leaves Boston in 2003, I'm guessing he probably he has a few more World Series rings. Idk if that would make any less of a pariah though. LeBron has won championships in every city he's played in and a lot of people still hate his guts and he hasn't even done anything legitimately horrible like ARod!

I don't know who had the cap space and were in need of an outfielder in the '03 offseason to speculate where Manny could've landed. Is there an alternate world where Manny is a Yankee and ARod is a Red Sox!? I'm glad things turned out way they did.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478107010373767170

This is a pretty crazy Sliding Door scenario. If Manny leaves Boston in the middle of his prime, it certainly effects immediate future. Long term though, I highly doubt the Curse continues to this day if Manny leaves. Maybe they break it in 2007 instead of 2004 but I think it happens eventually regardless. In fact, maybe their pursuit of ARod is more persistent in the '03 offseason and they actually get the deal done if they don't have Manny around as back up option.

Weirdly, I think ARod is effected by this What If? just as much as Manny. If Manny leaves Boston in 2003, I'm guessing he probably he has a few more World Series rings. Idk if that would make any less of a pariah though. LeBron has won championships in every city he's played in and a lot of people still hate his guts and he hasn't even done anything legitimately horrible like ARod!

I don't know who had the cap space and were in need of an outfielder in the '03 offseason to speculate where Manny could've landed. Is there an alternate world where Manny is a Yankee and ARod is a Red Sox!? I'm glad things turned out way they did.

I actually would be intrigued as to how much it would've effected David Ortiz's career numbers without having Manny hitting ahead (or behind) him as pitchers could then walk him much more regularly.

I don't know if the Red Sox would've won in '04 but like you, I think they could've won by 2007/2008 by relying more on pitching: Maybe they'd make more of a concerted effort to keep Pedro around to tandem with Schilling. I could see the Red Sox making moves for "budget" power hitters in the Grady Sizemore mold though (maybe they try to bring in Jason Bay earlier and have him stick around for more than 1 season) and trying to build up a better 1-9 "team" as opposed to one that heavily relied on Ortiz/Manny for the prodigious power.

 

[King Kamala]

Schilling wasn't traded to Boston until after Thanksgiving '03 and Manny was on waivers in October so if they get rid of Manny, it could have even effected that!

Despite the fact that they were trying to get rid of Manny's massive contract, I don't get the indication that the Red Sox were going to be doing a fire sale in '03. Red Sox fans had 86 years of history to validate their "Oh no! We're doomed!" mindset but I guess Red Sox brass' reaction after the 2003 ALCS was more along the lines "Damn. We were thisclose." and they would have done SOMETHING to compensate for losing Manny.

Another underlying question is would getting rid of Manny have alienated Pedro and Big Papi? As much of a pain in the butt that weirdo and his huge contract were, the highs were definitely worth sitting through the lows. Glad Boston got the best years of Manny being Manny.

 

[King Kamala]

What if the LA Lakers draft Jayson Tatum with the #2 pick in the 2017 NBA Draft? Does the Lakers' front office white whale in the late 2010s become Durant instead of LeBron?

I'm assuming the Celtics end up with Josh Jackson (oooof) so Lonzo ends up in Phoenix?

 

[alfdogg]

It’s tough to say, I have too hard of a time picturing that scenario when they just picked Brandon Ingram the year before. Also worth noting that the Celtics had the first pick that year before trading down and picking Tatum, so maybe they don’t do that trade if he’s not going to be there?

 

[King Kamala]

Yeah. I don't think it's a very practical what if considering how preordained Lonzo to the Lakers was at the time. In fact, didn't Lavar insist his son wouldn't play for anyone besides the Lakers?