Old School Observations/Questions Thread 2020

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
I was watching the "Best of 1980" special from St Louis that was uploaded on YT this week. Dick the Bruiser was throwing some seriously poor looking punches at this point for a guy who spent the past 25 years as a brawler.

Pat O'Connor was still in the mix with the top guys despite being 55 years old, balding and bereft of any muscle tone. He even tangled with Flair in the studio. The local fans were way behind him but 40 years later it looks really bad.

Ted Dibiase and Paul Orndorff team up against Bob Brown and Harley Race. The studio absolutely goes bonkers for the finish. You also get some Dick Murdoch and Brody squashes. Worth a look overall.
 

Fall of Epic

Epic Reine

Main takeaways from this Twitter thread:

-Inoki invented the Enziguri
-Lou Thesz invented the powerbomb
-I guess Johnny Ace gets the credit for inventing the Stunner/Diamond Cutter? I always thought Mikey Whipwreck universally was credited as the innovator even though Ace was probably using it in Japan before him.
-Is Chris Adams the least noteworthy worker to innovate such a popular wrestling move?

Sorry if some of these were well-known beforehand. I learned a lot from reading.
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
Chris Adams was a star in America by 1983, working in TX and St Louis. He was the top heel from late 1984-late 1985 via an endless feud with the Von Erichs.

He had fantastic charisma, and is probably Candido like in not getting a proper push due to size and personal demons. He was in JCP after they bought out Watts, and was a definite missed chance at a midcard heel act to freshen up JCP's booking. He was also on national TV in 1990 working for the USWA. He gets quite the pop at Starrcade 90 for coming into the show cold.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
I just knew Brody would lecture Epic after Epic (wrongfully) dismissed as a non-star. As a mark who only initially knew him from his late '90s WCW C/D show run, I still thought he was decently charismatic. f he had went to WWF during Monday Night Wars instead, I could see him getting a midcard push but uh, a certain bald Texan that he had an extensive past with is probably deciding reason why he chose a nothingburger jobguy run with WCW.
 

The Valeyard

Sha la la la, man.
Chris Adams is an old favorite of mine. The stuff he and Jimmy Garvin did was great, and the Dynamic Duo were an incredible act. His stuff in England is great. Look up him and Mark Rocco. It's so ahead of its time.
 

The Valeyard

Sha la la la, man.
There was a doc on Adams that came out a few years back that I should watch. He just was kind of a shithead. I feel like Gary Hart had to babysit a lot of guys, in hindsight.
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
Did Jimmy Hart and Gary Hart ever cross paths?
Apparently Gary wrote about his dislike of Jerry Jarrett and Tennessee:

In November, the Tennessee crew started coming in. Jim Barnett, Jim Crockett and Fritz Von Erich were all very concerned that we wouldn't put the Tennessee talent over. That's because "Tennessee" was a bad word in wrestling due to the sub par talent and tasteless angles that territory was known for.

"Tennessee" in it had a very bad connotation, and if wrestlers didn't like an idea or a worker, it would be dismissed with, "That's too much like Tennessee." Throughout different territories in the states, it really wasn't uncommon to hear things like, "That's a Tennessee finish," "He's a Tennessee worker" or "What a Tennessee idea!"
Gary was referring more to Jarrett/Fuller/Welch more than anything. From what I recall, Barnett was selling the Australian promotion to a combo of the Fuller/Welch clan. Gary was asked by both Barnett and Jim Crockett Sr. (two men he had tremendous respect for) to help make the transition as smooth as possible. A lot of the mainstays in Australia refused to put the new talent over with the exception of Gary and Brute Bernard. Gary says he was never thanked for the work that he did from Fuller/Welch and that it was commonplace for the Tennessee power brokers to treat talent like dirt. On top of that, Gary was next in Georgia and had issues with Jarrett. Gary was the type of manager who wanted to choose the talent he worked with and/or helped develop (he said that Lawler was one of the few top pieces of talent that Tennessee provided and he was glad to work with him.) On top of that, Gary had brought in a tag team called The Samoans (not Afa and Sika) and Jarrett wanted Gary to fire them, which Gary refused as he promised them a spot in Georgia. This allegedly led to an altercation in the bathroom which resulted in Gary just about ready to give Jarrett a swirlie when Barnett walked in. Due to the business relationship and connections between the Fuller/Welch/Jarrett grouping and Barnett between Australia and Georgia, Barnett had to fire Gary. This led to Uncle Gary next going to Florida and having a monster run with Dusty Rhodes and Pak Song. Keep in mind I don't have the book in front of me (as I sold it a year ago) so I might be off on some particulars.
So the only possible cross over I see is when Jimmy Hart was briefly working for Ole's B-team group where they tried to expand GCW West with Joe Blanchard's talent added to the mix. I think Gary was with WCCW at this point though. Jimmy was used in the Atlanta area to try and keep drawing with the regular stars elsewhere.

Actually I think I conflated 2 stories. The expansion attempt was 1983, and I believe Corny was the manager in that case. Jimmy was in GCW after Vince fucked Ole out of the 605 slot and Ole had an early morning show on TBS that eventually dissolved into JCP.

 
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Fall of Epic

Epic Reine
I think the first Austin/McMahon stunner in '97 was when they first acknowledged it on-air formally. JR said on commentary "Austin's stunned a lot of guys but never the owner of the WWF!". I thought "huh? goofy Vince McMahon owns the company?". Some kid told me in school the next day that Vince had actually just acquired the company that year from Jack Tunney. Kayfabe was alive in NYC public schools!
 

Alfdogg

Alfdogg
I think they acknowledged it when they were doing the Headlock on Hunger stuff around 93-ish. Could be wrong. Earliest direct mention I can remember was JR’s big rant the night after IYH Mind Games
 

BUTT

Kreese
Yeah one of the March '93 Raws opens with a long video package where Vince gets an award for his humanitarianism. Hogan acknowledges Vince as his boss and introduces him as the "true champion of children." It's completely cut out of the Network version, probably because they play "A Whole New World" in the background and "Gonna Fly Now" as Vince walks to the stage, so if you ever looked at the '93 Raws and wondered why one of them is 36 minutes long, now you know. But I think JR's speech was the first time it was brought up in storyline.

Meltzer on that MSG segment:
He gave that plaque to himself. Yes, a man makes himself a plaque for being "the genius who came up with WrestleMania" and awarded it to himself in MSG.
 

strummer

Integral Poster
When Jamison is introduced on the Bobby Heenan show in 89 he opens with "Vince called me to be here." before Heenan quickly cuts him off and insults him
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
The next installment of WWF Superstars are coming in this monday.
May 15th has a vintage Steiners squash full of jobber violence. I do not believe I ever saw these episodes as Superstars was always preempted in the Green Bay area during the KOR time frame which drove me crazy as the WWF was finally having non "wimpy" matches on TV and I couldn't see them!!!

I am honestly not sure when I knew Vince was the WWF owner as a kid. Sometime around 1990-91-92 my Mama bought me a big pile of Apter mags (Inside Wrestling, The Wrestler, maybe some PWI's) at my neighbor's rummage sale. They dated back as late as 1982ish. The mags definitely did not hide Vince's ownership.

That reminds me.... the magazines were on one table at the rummage sale and we missed several more piles, My neighbors brought a few with them a few weeks later and threw them in our makeshift fire pit, pissed on them and then we burnt them. I was HORRIFIED. I must have been collector minded even at 9,10, 11 whatever.....
 
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King Kamala

Integral Poster
Amusingly, I was on an Old School WWF/WWWF Facebook group last night, and one of the posters on there posted this card and they said longtime NYC fans were pissed that Vince was main eventing the GARDEN with a HILLBILLY JIM match (one with a fuck finish no less). Just imagine list of MSG main eventers; Bruno, Pedro, Superstar Billy Graham, Backlund, Hogan, HILLBILLY JIM!


WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 21, 1985 (19,000)
Televised on the MSG Network - featured Gorilla Monsoon & Jesse Ventura on commentary; included Bruno Sammartino as a guest of Piper's Pit in which Sammartino demanded Bob Orton Jr. leave the ring so that Piper could conduct the interview one-on-one; moments later, after receiving a number of insults from Piper, Sammartino shoved him down and was then assaulted by a chair; Sammartino eventually chased Piper away with the chair; prior to Sammartino's appearance, Piper had future WWF referee Tim White and a woman named Stephanie, both from New York, on as guests; Stephanie was forced to leave after saying Paul Orndorff was her favorite wrestler and White was forced to leave after saying Hulk Hogan was his; Sammartino appearing on Piper's Pit was later reshown during Prime Time Wrestling on 11/5/85; featured Gene Okerlund hosting a segment in which Vince McMahon was presented with an outstanding achievement award for the success of WrestleMania; during the segment, it was announced that the video of WrestleMania had gone platinum; Arnold Skaaland, Jim Troy, & George Scott, and the British Bulldogs were present for the presentation:
Prime Time Wrestling - 11/5/85: Steve Gatorwolf pinned Terry Gibbs (sub. for the Masked Superstar) at 7:17 with a double tomahawk chop to the chest
Prime Time Wrestling - 11/5/85: Adrian Adonis (w/ Jimmy Hart) pinned SD Jones at 6:51 with the DDT
Prime Time Wrestling - 11/5/85: Mike Rotundo & Tony Atlas (sub. for Barry Windham) defeated Barry O & Iron Mike Sharpe at 16:45 when Rotundo pinned Barry following the airplane spin; after the bout, Atlas fought off Barry O and threw him onto Jesse Ventura at ringside, leading to a heated verbal confrontation between Barry O and Ventura to set up their match the following month
Prime Time Wrestling - 1/27/86: King Tonga pinned Ron Shaw at 9:25 with a side kick to the face
Prime Time Wrestling - 11/5/85: Pedro Morales pinned Rene Goulet with an inside cradle at 14:03
Andre the Giant & Hillbilly Jim (w/ Capt. Lou Albano) fought Big John Studd & King Kong Bundy (w/ Bobby Heenan) to a double disqualification at 14:08 when all four men began brawling in the ring as Albano and Heenan fought on the floor; after the bout, Andre, Jim, and Albano cleared the opposition from the ring
Prime Time Wrestling - 11/5/85: Paul Orndorff pinned the Spoiler (sub. for the Missing Link) at 12:35 with a clothesline in a $50,000 bounty match; had the Spoiler been able to put Orndorff out of action, he would have won the bounty put on Orndorff's head by Bobby Heenan; prior to the bout, the Crush Girls - Chigusa Nagoya & Lioness Asuka - were introduced to the crowd as the Japanese Women's Tag Team Champions
Prime Time Wrestling - 11/5/85: Davey Boy Smith & the Dynamite Kid defeated the Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff (w/ Freddie Blassie) at 6:46 when Smith dropkicked Volkoff from the top rope, as Volkoff prepared to slam Dynamite, with Dynamite landing on top for the win (The British Bulldogs)


I'm guessing actual draw was Piper's Pit with Bruno. But the show's draw being based around an interview segment (even with the biggest draw in MSG history squaring off against the current #1 heel) ain't much better than it being based aroubnd a match involving Hillbilly Jim.

And, man, it's impressive WWF drew a near sell out for a show that is a C show if you don't include Andre and a Piper's Pit.
 
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