Pre-NFL Draft Talk

[2GOLD]

Some of the people on WFAN were speculating that Detroit may just let the clock expire without picking someone and then draft whoever they wanted later on in an intentional repeat of the historic Vikings debacles. I don't know if there's any truth to the rumor, but it would make a complete mockery of the draft if the team with the # 1 pick decided to try and pass up taking the pick for monetary reasons.

It would also lead to a mega holdout by whoever they do pick. It is just a bad idea all around.

So the Lions will do it.

 

[teke184]

If the Saints go with anything outside of a defensive pick in the first round, I will strongly consider writing them out of my life. I doubt I actually WILL do that, but I'll be peeved a great deal.

Depends on what they do...

I want them to trade down because they need additional picks and, besides that, they can still pick up useful players later in the first.

(They need OLBs and a Safety for sure.

I'm not sure if they need a CB since Tracy Porter was great as a rookie before breaking his wrist and a lot of Bills fans were upset to lose Jabari Greer to us. Malcolm Jenkins would be acceptable, though, since he's seen as a "tweener" between CB and Safety due to perceived slow speed.)


I can see taking an RB like Beanie Wells *IF* we can't trade down and there's no one left we really want at that spot, but I'd prefer not to go there if possible.


If we take Jeremy Maclin, I'll request that the entire front office go in for mandatory drug testing since Brees has proven he can make the fucking hot-dog vendor into a good WR and we've got a bunch of other holes to fill instead.

(Lance Moore, Marques Colston, and other receivers we've had over the past few years tended to be late-round picks or castoffs from other teams. Speedsters Devery Henderson and Robert Meachem have been the two high-round WRs and we can't even get Meachem on the damn field because he's not a Top 3 WR and doesn't do special teams.)

 

[Czech]

NFL teams are using phony Facebook profiles of hot, young coeds to find out secrets of NFL Draft prospects. No, seriously.

One NFC North coach said his team has gotten particularly adept at collecting information from networking sites.

Time to speculate which coach this is and what "tactics" they are using to get information.

25 RANDOM THINGS ABOUT ME
1. We come off the bus running
2. We went away from the run because they'll stop that eventually
3. The scheme is fine
4. Rex is our quarterback
5. Rex is our quarterback
6. Rex is our quarterback
7. Rex is our quarterback
8. Rex is our quarterback
9. Rex is our quarterback
10. Rex is our quarterback
11. Rex is our quarterback
12. Rex is our quarterback

 

[HarleyQuinn]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

Just found this and really legit interesting stuff in regards to just how much more the scouts/evaluators know than the average NFL fan. Below is the most interesting segment.

PFW polled five high-level league executives, asking them to rank five players with suspect track records — (listed alphabetically) Texas Tech WR Michael Crabtree, Illinois CB Vontae Davis, Florida WR Percy Harvin, USC ILB Rey Maualuga and Boston College DT B.J. Raji — in the order in which character is most likely to be a negative factor in the pros. All participants were granted anonymity in exchange for honesty.

One top-ranking official, who said he would not draft any of them, compared the exercise to trying to decide between whether he’d rather eat cow manure, drink monkey urine, or ingest rabbit turds. None of the choices seemed attractive enough to place one over the other, and, it should be noted, not all felt strongly that character would be an issue that would prevent them from drafting the following players or affect their ability to succeed in the pros. Teams with strong locker rooms, veteran leadership and consistent, demanding coaches may be able to better tolerate concerns.

More specific details on these players are included in Pro Football Weekly’s 2009 Draft Preview than what is included below, and much is best left unsaid, but following are the results of how teams rated the greatest risk concerns.

1) WR Percy Harvin, Florida (Jr.)
The first player mentioned by all five executives, Harvin is the clear-cut favorite in this year’s draft class to find trouble after receiving a giant payday. He was very competitive at Florida, even battling through a broken bone in his foot that was publicly referred to as a sprained ankle, helping the Gators win two national championships the past three years. The mention of character concerns about Harvin drew outrage from ardent supporters of Gator Nation after PFW’s 2009 Draft Guide was released. Nonetheless, one executive said Harvin would have to slip to the fourth round for him to consider rolling the dice on Harvin's character. Two others said they would not entertain the idea of drafting him at any price. Coachability, a posse of hangers-on, his lack of respect for authority and drug usage made Harvin a unanimous selection to become a repeated problem in the pros.

2) WR Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech (Soph.-3)
Crabtree may not have a laundry list of arrests, but his ego is abnormally large to the point where he repeatedly demeaned training staff, his work ethic has been described as “marginal at best,” and his intelligence and ability to handle success remain major question marks. One thorough evaluator compared Crabtree’s mental makeup to that of former LSU and Buccaneers 2004 15th overall pick Michael Clayton, who made a big splash in the NFL as a rookie before going on to average 31 catches, 378 yards and a half-TD catch each of the past four years as he lost focus, bought into the hype and stopped working at his craft the way young receivers must do to be great. Crabtree's competitiveness noticeably stands out on tape, and he did play through injury last season. However, when the Red Raiders were getting whipped by better competition (Oklahoma and Mississippi) during the final two games of the season, Crabtree did not finish either game. After he gets a taste of success in the pros, evaluators are not confident he will be able to handle the trappings of the pro game.

3) ILB Rey Maualuga, USC
Football is clearly very important to him, and he has endearingly been described as a “war daddy” by evaluators, but questions remain about his maturity, accountability, trustworthiness, intelligence and ability to responsibly handle alcohol. His coaches publicly have contended that he has matured greatly, but some of his actions have continued to suggest otherwise. One executive said he had positioned Maualuga just far enough down in the first round so that he would not be considered with the team’s first pick, hoping he would be gone by the time the second pick came around. Another evaluator said he did not envision Maualuga’s position on his team’s draft board being altered based on his character but, when pressed as to whether he would draft Maualuga in the top 10, said the pick would be “too scary.”

4) CB Vontae Davis, Illinois (Jr.)
Outside of being demoted several times throughout his career, in the spring and in the fall, Davis may not seem like he has a lot of issues on the surface — with no noted arrests or incidents that scream “problem.” However, his team interviews have been received very poorly, raising questions about his mental instability, lack of maturity and intelligence issues that clearly show up on tape consistently. He was regularly in the coaches’ doghouse, is very difficult to manage, does not respond well to coaching and may never easily blend into a locker room, as he beats to his own drum.

5) DT B.J. Raji, Boston College
Defensive tackles may need to be held to a different standard, with the modern-day widebody not needed to play as many snaps in the pros as most are asked to play in college, where fewer schools rotate their defensive linemen the way NFL teams tend to do. In a league where extra mass is rewarded and girth is a big plus defending the run, not all teams even penalize their linemen for not being able to control their weight. However, Raji’s work habits, intelligence and overall maturity, including at least one verified failed drug test, were distractions in college, especially early on, and several executives said they would not be willing to invest a first-round pick in a player with so many questions. Among the aforementioned five players with concerns, however, Raji drew the least criticism because of the improved maturity he showed as a senior after a clerical error cost him his junior season.

Others who could be affected by character issues:

WR Brandon Tate, North Carolina
WR Hakeem Nicks, North Carolina
OT Michael Oher, Mississippi
TE Travis Beckum, Wisconsin
LB Dannell Ellerbe, Georgia

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm curious to see if Detroit trades down. The problem is figuring out who will trade with them. Maybe Denver with their 2 first round picks?

No chance of that, Denver doesn't want to pay the salary of a #1 overall pick. That's why Detroit was never really in the discussion for Cutler.

Pick #9 though might be a different story, with the Packers sitting right in front of San Fran (who most experts have picking Mark Sanchez). If they can get a good package, I'd be all for the Packers trading down for more picks and the #9 pick isn't nearly as toxic as the #1 in terms of guaranteed money.

 

[Next USC #55]

I doubt the #9 pick is worth the #12 and #18 picks, but I'm sure it could work for the #12 OR #18 pick and whatever Denver's 3rd overall pick is, if it's a second or third rounder.

 

[KOAB]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

Just found this and really legit interesting stuff in regards to just how much more the scouts/evaluators know than the average NFL fan. Below is the most interesting segment.

PFW polled five high-level league executives, asking them to rank five players with suspect track records — (listed alphabetically) Texas Tech WR Michael Crabtree, Illinois CB Vontae Davis, Florida WR Percy Harvin, USC ILB Rey Maualuga and Boston College DT B.J. Raji — in the order in which character is most likely to be a negative factor in the pros. All participants were granted anonymity in exchange for honesty.

One top-ranking official, who said he would not draft any of them, compared the exercise to trying to decide between whether he’d rather eat cow manure, drink monkey urine, or ingest rabbit turds. None of the choices seemed attractive enough to place one over the other, and, it should be noted, not all felt strongly that character would be an issue that would prevent them from drafting the following players or affect their ability to succeed in the pros. Teams with strong locker rooms, veteran leadership and consistent, demanding coaches may be able to better tolerate concerns.

More specific details on these players are included in Pro Football Weekly’s 2009 Draft Preview than what is included below, and much is best left unsaid, but following are the results of how teams rated the greatest risk concerns.

1) WR Percy Harvin, Florida (Jr.)
The first player mentioned by all five executives, Harvin is the clear-cut favorite in this year’s draft class to find trouble after receiving a giant payday. He was very competitive at Florida, even battling through a broken bone in his foot that was publicly referred to as a sprained ankle, helping the Gators win two national championships the past three years. The mention of character concerns about Harvin drew outrage from ardent supporters of Gator Nation after PFW’s 2009 Draft Guide was released. Nonetheless, one executive said Harvin would have to slip to the fourth round for him to consider rolling the dice on Harvin's character. Two others said they would not entertain the idea of drafting him at any price. Coachability, a posse of hangers-on, his lack of respect for authority and drug usage made Harvin a unanimous selection to become a repeated problem in the pros.

2) WR Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech (Soph.-3)
Crabtree may not have a laundry list of arrests, but his ego is abnormally large to the point where he repeatedly demeaned training staff, his work ethic has been described as “marginal at best,” and his intelligence and ability to handle success remain major question marks. One thorough evaluator compared Crabtree’s mental makeup to that of former LSU and Buccaneers 2004 15th overall pick Michael Clayton, who made a big splash in the NFL as a rookie before going on to average 31 catches, 378 yards and a half-TD catch each of the past four years as he lost focus, bought into the hype and stopped working at his craft the way young receivers must do to be great. Crabtree's competitiveness noticeably stands out on tape, and he did play through injury last season. However, when the Red Raiders were getting whipped by better competition (Oklahoma and Mississippi) during the final two games of the season, Crabtree did not finish either game. After he gets a taste of success in the pros, evaluators are not confident he will be able to handle the trappings of the pro game.

3) ILB Rey Maualuga, USC
Football is clearly very important to him, and he has endearingly been described as a “war daddy” by evaluators, but questions remain about his maturity, accountability, trustworthiness, intelligence and ability to responsibly handle alcohol. His coaches publicly have contended that he has matured greatly, but some of his actions have continued to suggest otherwise. One executive said he had positioned Maualuga just far enough down in the first round so that he would not be considered with the team’s first pick, hoping he would be gone by the time the second pick came around. Another evaluator said he did not envision Maualuga’s position on his team’s draft board being altered based on his character but, when pressed as to whether he would draft Maualuga in the top 10, said the pick would be “too scary.”

4) CB Vontae Davis, Illinois (Jr.)
Outside of being demoted several times throughout his career, in the spring and in the fall, Davis may not seem like he has a lot of issues on the surface — with no noted arrests or incidents that scream “problem.” However, his team interviews have been received very poorly, raising questions about his mental instability, lack of maturity and intelligence issues that clearly show up on tape consistently. He was regularly in the coaches’ doghouse, is very difficult to manage, does not respond well to coaching and may never easily blend into a locker room, as he beats to his own drum.

5) DT B.J. Raji, Boston College
Defensive tackles may need to be held to a different standard, with the modern-day widebody not needed to play as many snaps in the pros as most are asked to play in college, where fewer schools rotate their defensive linemen the way NFL teams tend to do. In a league where extra mass is rewarded and girth is a big plus defending the run, not all teams even penalize their linemen for not being able to control their weight. However, Raji’s work habits, intelligence and overall maturity, including at least one verified failed drug test, were distractions in college, especially early on, and several executives said they would not be willing to invest a first-round pick in a player with so many questions. Among the aforementioned five players with concerns, however, Raji drew the least criticism because of the improved maturity he showed as a senior after a clerical error cost him his junior season.

Others who could be affected by character issues:

WR Brandon Tate, North Carolina
WR Hakeem Nicks, North Carolina
OT Michael Oher, Mississippi
TE Travis Beckum, Wisconsin
LB Dannell Ellerbe, Georgia

Let's take bets on which one of these players the Raiders pick in the 1st round. Should be a fun game

 

[Next USC #55]

It sounds like the Raiders would take either Crabtree or Raji.

 

[SFH]

.

 

[teke184]

It's apparently been confirmed that Percy Harvin flunked a drug test at the combine for pot.

This likely drops him from being a mid-1st to being a late-1st / early-2nd pick because there are so many good WRs in the draft this year.


Also, the "Braylon Edwards to the Giants" talk has heated up, with expectations being that the Browns swing a deal before the draft, or at least before the Giants' pick at the end of the 1st (around #29, IIRC).

 

[Vitamin X]

but questions remain about his maturity, accountability, trustworthiness, intelligence and ability to responsibly handle alcohol.

Shouldn't this apply to just about ANYONE coming out of college, football player or not?

 

[Next USC #55]

I don't think the Bears would benefit from taking Percy Harvin because of his height, but the team that DOES get Harvin will be very grateful in five years.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

but questions remain about his maturity, accountability, trustworthiness, intelligence and ability to responsibly handle alcohol.

Shouldn't this apply to just about ANYONE coming out of college, football player or not?

Probably but this is going to be their job/profession and they're being paid at least 6 figures, some guys getting a million dollars or so. If you're hiring for your job and you find out he's a heavy alcoholic, it'd be reasonable to pass over him for the clean hard worker who's slightly below the first guy.

Why should the NFL be any different in that regard? Look at guys like Charles Rogers for Detroit. A guy who has baggage and fucks it up, can easily set your team back 2-3 seasons. For every Randy Moss, there's about 4 or 5 guys who turn into a Charles Rogers. Also note that Moss fell to the late 1st too and largely only got taken by Minnesota because Denny Green was there and had known Moss since childhood.

 

[the pinjockey]

Sounds an awful lot like what the talk was about DeSean Jackson last year (minus the pot talk).

 

[HarleyQuinn]

And DeSean was arguably more remembered for the endzone gaffe against Dallas than the fact that he was explosive as a rookie WR. Interestingly, he was taken in the 2nd Round (#49 overall) and was the 7th WR overall selected.

 

[the pinjockey]

The thing probably hurting him more than Jackson is the depth of the class. Why take the chance on Harvin when you have:
Crabtree/Maclin/Britt/DHB/Nicks/Robieske (since he seems to be the new hot name)

compared to the 2008 class of Devin Thomas/Limas Sweed/etc.

I wouldn't mind seeing Harvin drop far enough that the Eagles can pick him up after the 28th pick (maybe a trade up in the second). I think him/Jackson/Westbrook on the field at the same time could be interesting. Plus, assuming they get him after the two 1s, they would have addressed other positions so you can take a risk on the guy.

 

[Next USC #55]

Harvin has proven he can take a snap directly. He's too good of a versatile weapon to let a marijuana positive test drop him off teams' boards.

 

[Gert]

Here is a link to the draft value chart that people were talking about earlier (this does not include compensatory picks)

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Looking at the chart, the Broncos probably don't have to give up 12 and 18 to get between 6-9 to get Sanchez.

As a Bengals fan I would love to make a deal with Denver for 12 and 48 for the 6th pick, especially if Monroe, Smith, Crabtree and Curry are all off of the board by then.

 

[oldskool]

I don't think the Bears would benefit from taking Percy Harvin because of his height, but the team that DOES get Harvin will be very grateful in five years.

They'll be very grateful when his rookie contract expires? That's not very nice.

 

[Next USC #55]

Nice one!

Well, I meant when the whole "Oh I get the playbook!" sense kicked in. It usually takes receivers a few seasons to truly break out. I was counting on that sort of grace period with Harvin.

 

[the pinjockey]

So now that we are within a week and most of the available information is out there; simple question: Who do you want?

For the Eagles I really don't care specific players, I just want them to come out of their early picks with a RB, TE and WR (assuming no trade). In my perfect world they come away with Pettigrew, McCoy slips to them in the second, and grab Ramses Barden in the third. It gives them a nice complement to Celek, the legit no.1 complete TE to go with a pass catching 2, a solid 2nd RB behind Westbrook, and a nice big receiver to complement DeSean.

But any realistic player at those positions wouldn't crush me, except using the 1st rounder on a TE not named Pettigrew.

 

[naiwf]

I want a #1 receiver. Whether that's Boldin, Edwards or someone they draft in the 1st round is not as important as the fact that the season won't be worth playing if we go into it with a collection of #3's out there. I have a feeling Jacobs will miss at least 4 games this year due to injury and without Ward that means the passing game needs to at least be a threat. The Giants were terrible w/o Plax and I have no desire to see them go through 16 more weeks with that kind of anemic offense.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

What I'd like to see the Patriots do... Not in order.

- #3 QB, possibly somebody like a Graham Harrell in the 6th round (Note that Belichick & Pioli had drafted Kliff Kingsbury, the first of the Leach era system QBs). Note that it wouldn't shock me if Denver went this direction either with Harrell. He could battle Matt Gutierrez for the roster spot
- DE/OLB tweener. Everybody knows Bruschi is getting older but Thomas and Richard Seymour are also getting up there in age
- G for depth. Stephen Neal and Russ Hochstein both have 8 and 9 years of experience so they're getting up there
- ILB for depth, although they're nicely set up for the future with guys like Shawn Crable, Gary Guyton, Mayo, and Vince Redd at the LB position
- RB in the early to mid rounds maybe. The guys they have are either old or injury prone (Maroney) or talented but not quite proven (BJGE was a UDFA)
- TE in the late rounds. Ben Watson is streaky and David Thomas is good when not injured but could be a Maroney at TE.
- WR in the mid rounds. Only Matt Slater has fewer than 6 years experience and right now he's more of a Special Teams project at WR.

They could also get some of these positions filled through UDFAs: See BJGE at RB, Gary Guyton and Vince Redd at LB

 

[the pinjockey]

Edwards

I'd be shocked if the Browns aren't drafting when the #29 pick comes on the clock.

 

[Kinetic]

I want the best defensive lineman available, preferably a DT. Peria Jerry or B.J. Raji. I can't imagine that they'd go in any other direction, although I guess a WR or a CB might still be possibilities. To me, those needs aren't nearly as pressing. If we don't get someone worth a shit in the middle of our defensive line, we're going to get gashed on a weekly basis this season.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I just hope that the Packers don't draft Andre Smith. If the guy won't get into shape with millions of dollars on the line, what's he going to do with a fat contract? He might as well have BUST tattooed on his forehead.

 

[Agent of Oblivion]

What I want The Bears to do with their one first day pick:

1. DB. There should be some good options at #49, and since the franchise has FINALLY addressed QB, they have to fix the area at which they were destroyed last season.
2. WR. I put this number two because there won't be as many good options at this stage of the draft.
3. DL. Either Ron Brace or Ziggy Hood should be there. If they get push up the middle (unlike last season) their DEs won't get exposed.

 

[Gert]

Mike Mickens may be a nice option at #49, although there are questions whether he can amount to more than a really good nickelback.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

All of the following I-AA QBs are expected to be UDFAs but it's interesting that almost all of them (outside of Bobby Reid) are basically summed up in one sentence: Has great intangibles for the position but struggles with arm strength.

QB Liam Coen (UMass): Heady, smart QB who can spread the ball around but struggles with arm strength and forces throws into coverage. Basically the very definition of "intangibles with limited arm strength" vs. "rocket arm with limited intangibles" argument.
Comparable: Chad Pennington (Smart decision maker but struggles with deep throws)
QB Chris Pizzotti (Harvard): Calm in pocket and smart decision maker but has a slow delivery and struggles with arm strength
Comparable: Ryan Fitzpatrick (Decent arm strength but may not have the overall package)
QB Bobby Reid (Texas Southern): Has good arm strength and can scramble but struggles reading coverages and hesitates in making decisions
Comparable: Tarvaris Jackson (Good arm strength but struggles with reading coverages)
QB Dominic Randolph (Holy Cross): Calm in pocket, smart decision maker, and can scramble but struggles with arm strength and sails passes
Comparable: Matt Jones (Good scrambler, marginal QB, could be converted to WR)
QB Cole Bergquist (Montana): Patient in pocket with great awareness but struggles with arm strength and eluding the rush
Comparable: Kyle Orton (Average arm strength but wins games and has good poise)
QB Brock Smith (Liberty): Smart, patient in pocket with good awareness but struggles with arm strength and accuracy on the run
Comparable: Matt Schaub (Could benefit from a WCO/Timing system. May struggle with deep throws but can be good in short and intermediate routes)

I'd rank them in the following order in terms of landing on a practice squad. One thing in their favor is that Tom Brady coming out of Michigan was a "good/great intangibles with marginal arm strength" QB and obviously improved his arm strength through weight training in the NFL.

1: Bobby Reid (His arm strength will likely get him more chances than the following guys)
2: Brock Smith (Was touted pretty well coming out of the early draft talk. Arm strength could be seen as average or above average by some scouts)
3: Liam Coen (Emulated Brady a bit in the games that I saw when he played at UMass. Could be a sleeper surprise to stick on a roster and develop into a backup/starter down the road)
4: Cole Bergquist (Very similar to Coen. Basically a natural leader/winner but doesn't have the physical gifts that other QBs have)
5: Dominic Randolph
6: Chris Pizzotti

 

[SFH]

.