"What if's" of sports history

Danville_Wrestling

Danville_Wrestling
geniusMoment said:
What happens if Ken Griffey Jr. doesn't tear his hamstring in a spring training game in 2001, causing him to eventually have a never before done surgery where the muscle is re-attached to the bone with screws. It allows him to play, but from that point forward he never has the power of his legs underneath him, instead he swings mainly with his upper body.

Does he break Hank Aaron's record? Does he hit more home runs then Bonds?

Would his chase bring in more people to the Reds park, meaning better free agents?
If Griffey doesn't get hurt I think he manages to break Aaron's record. Not sure if he would have ended up with more HR's than Bonds, but he had a sick pace going and would probably be viewed today as the "clean" HR king because of the Bonds stuff even if he didn't catch him. With a healthy Griffey, the Reds might have been able to become a power in the Central division and become a consistent playoff contender, generating revenue for free agents. There was a lot of excitement when Griffey was signed, but it was all downhill fast from there.
 

MFer

Administrator
Staff member
Just watched the 30 for 30 on Magic Johnson again, and it had me wondering, what if he had continued playing after the HIV announcement? He was set to come back in '92 before all the distractions sent him back to retirement. In '96, he was still very productive at age 36. If he tacked on another ring or two in that time period, we could be talking about Magic as the G.O.A.T. Also, Shaq and Kobe came in the following offseason...that would've been something to see.
 
I don't think Magic gets the respect for GOAT that he deserves because he was a PG. Because he wasn't a prototype scorer, and while he does get mentioned in the discussion, and should more or less be GOAT, in some people's eyes he's dropped a notch because he wasn't like a 30 point scorer.
 

MFer

Administrator
Staff member
alkeiper said:
I think Magic is in the GOAT discussion regardless.
I think so as well, but so many people are stuck on Jordan so badly that they won't even invite a discussion on anyone else possibly being the greatest.
 
Lakers probably would have made it back to Finals in 92 at the very least. But remember, a lot of those Showtime Lakers were really on their last legs as productive players. Worthy only played for three more seasons after Magic's retirement and had knee problems.

A team with Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, a young Kobe, Shaq and Magic at the 4 would have been a hell of a sight to see. Shame that Magic hung em' up a year too early.
 

Big Beard Booty Daddy

Canadian Destroyer213
MFer said:
alkeiper said:
I think Magic is in the GOAT discussion regardless.
I think so as well, but so many people are stuck on Jordan so badly that they won't even invite a discussion on anyone else possibly being the greatest.
I agree as well. He was awesome. Jordan didn't play every position in the playoffs like Magic did.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
If Magic hadn't hung 'em up, we might not have gotten The Magic Show. And we might have gotten Magic unsuccessfully trying to coach Kobe and Shaq after he retired instead of Nick Van Exel, Vlade Divac, and washed up James Worthy.
 

HarleyQuinn

Laugh This Off... Puddin'!
Staff member
Bumping this to answer the Tuck Rule question 'cause I'm bored...

#1: Gruden wins Super Bowl and stays as HC with Oakland into mid to late 2000's. Tampa Bay remains a team in turmoil similar to the Cleveland Browns. OC Bill Callahan likely ends up with a HC job somewhere like Arizona or Detroit while Oakland competes with Pittsburgh, Indy, and Patriots as playoff constants in the AFC. The WCO gets a revival thanks to the success of Gruden & Callahan with several head coaches landing jobs throughout the NFL well into the late 2000's.

#2: Rich Gannon sticks as the starting QB into 2002/2003. Raiders probably challenge for another Super Bowl during that period and Raiders go after a rookie QB in the 2005 NFL Draft like Jason Campbell late in the 1st Round.

#3: Patriots struggle in 2002 and finish 7-9 to 9-7 range. Bledsoe still gets dealt to Buffalo and Belichick sticks with Tom Brady as the starting QB. Patriots don't sign SS Rodney Harrison but improve in 2003 to 10-6 and win a playoff game. They still deal for Corey Dillon in 2004 and make a run at the Super Bowl in 2004 and 2005 as Brady comes into his own as a QB.

#4: Chargers and Chiefs remain good teams that never get over the hump due to Raiders mostly dominating. Marty coaches until 2005 and gets fired after a playoff exit in the wild card.

#5: AFC becomes a slug fest by 2006 with Colts/Raiders/Patriots/Steelers constantly waging war. Ravens struggle to find themselves during this period and don't make much noise until 2008 or so. Bengals also struggle but make a surprise run to the AFC Title game one year thanks to Carson Palmer throwing to Chad Johnson and Houshmandzadeh.

#6: Tuck Rule becomes a rare penalty called that most fans don't give two thoughts towards. Roughing receivers comes into play being enforced by 2006 or 2007 (instead of 2004) after the Raiders or Patriots maul the Colts and Polian gets pissed at not yet having a ring for Peyton Manning.

#7: Nebraska shifts back to more of a classic I-Formation Power Option attack and start making a statement in the 2000s after not hiring Callahan/not being able to afford him. Frank Solich sticks as HC until 2010 with good Bowl success before stepping down for somebody like Scott Frost, having risen to OC there.
 

Skywarp!

Integral Poster
What if Drazen Petrovic didn't die? Does Chuck Daly not resign after the '93 season? Do the Nets make a deep run in the '94 playoffs with Petrovic, Coleman, and Kenny Anderson? Could they have stolen a championship from the Rockets before Jordan came back? Would they have accomplished enough that they don't move to Brooklyn?

I'll say: yes, yes, no, no.
 

Skywarp!

Integral Poster
A lot of ink has been spilled on alternate timelines for the 2004 NFL Draft. What if the Chargers heed Manning's warning and don't draft him? Who do they take at number 1? What if they do draft Manning but hang onto him, making him hold out on signing? The Giants have said that if they couldn't get Manning, they'd have taken Big Ben. If that happened, where did Manning and Rivers end up? Do the Patriots go 19-0? Do the Giants win any Super Bowls with Big Ben? Does he implode when the NY media digs its claws into his sordid lifestyle? Who is behind center for the Chargers and Steelers, and do they win any Super Bowls?
 

HarleyQuinn

Laugh This Off... Puddin'!
Staff member
Skywarp! said:
A lot of ink has been spilled on alternate timelines over the 2004 NFL Draft. What if the Chargers heed Manning's warning and don't draft him? Who do they take at number 1? What if they do draft Manning but hang onto him, making him hold out on signing? The Giants have said that if they couldn't get Manning, they'd have taken Big Ben. If that happened, where did Manning and Rivers end up? Do the Patriots go 19-0? Do the Giants win any Super Bowls with Big Ben? Does he implode when the NY media digs its claws into his sordid lifestyle? Who is behind center for the Chargers and Steelers, and do they win any Super Bowls?
#1: San Diego probably would have taken OT Robert Gallery at #1 although Larry Fitzgerald would have been an enticing option. They could have gotten by with Drew Brees at QB then.

#2: Manning probably falls to the Cleveland Browns. He likely would have sat behind Jeff Garcia for the 2004 season and been named the starter in 2005. Rivers ends up landing in Pittsburgh instead of Big Ben. He struggles there behind Tommy Maddox (who keeps the starting gig) and struggles as a starter into the 2007/2008 season.

#3: I think the Giants could have won 1 Super Bowl but it would have been in spite of Ben's abilities. His game's been tailor made for him in Pittsburgh (scramble bombs, load up at WR skill wise) and I don't think Coughlin/Giants would have been nearly as accommodating.

#4: Chargers settle for Drew Brees. He helps take them deep, possibly an AFC Title Game or Super Bowl but that's it. Steelers struggle with Rivers, Cowher never wins a ring.
 

Skywarp!

Integral Poster
Harley Quinn said:
Skywarp! said:
A lot of ink has been spilled on alternate timelines over the 2004 NFL Draft. What if the Chargers heed Manning's warning and don't draft him? Who do they take at number 1? What if they do draft Manning but hang onto him, making him hold out on signing? The Giants have said that if they couldn't get Manning, they'd have taken Big Ben. If that happened, where did Manning and Rivers end up? Do the Patriots go 19-0? Do the Giants win any Super Bowls with Big Ben? Does he implode when the NY media digs its claws into his sordid lifestyle? Who is behind center for the Chargers and Steelers, and do they win any Super Bowls?
#1: San Diego probably would have taken OT Robert Gallery at #1 although Larry Fitzgerald would have been an enticing option. They could have gotten by with Drew Brees at QB then.

#2: Manning probably falls to the Cleveland Browns. He likely would have sat behind Jeff Garcia for the 2004 season and been named the starter in 2005. Rivers ends up landing in Pittsburgh instead of Big Ben. He struggles there behind Tommy Maddox (who keeps the starting gig) and struggles as a starter into the 2007/2008 season.

#3: I think the Giants could have won 1 Super Bowl but it would have been in spite of Ben's abilities. His game's been tailor made for him in Pittsburgh (scramble bombs, load up at WR skill wise) and I don't think Coughlin/Giants would have been nearly as accommodating.

#4: Chargers settle for Drew Brees. He helps take them deep, possibly an AFC Title Game or Super Bowl but that's it. Steelers struggle with Rivers, Cowher never wins a ring.
Re: #2: I don't think he would have fallen to the Browns. If he were still available at number 4, the Giants would have taken him. The Raiders (Rich Gannon (Kerry Collins was only released by the Giants after securing both Manning and Kurt Warner)), Cardinals (Josh McCown) and Redskins (Patrick Ramsey) would also have had to pass on him to fall to the Browns. Not saying that Fitzgerald and Sean Taylor weren't great picks for those franchises, but I wonder if they'd still have picked the same.

It also would have given us the chance to see just how petulant Manning could have been coming out of college. My speculation on the Manning brothers is that they don't want to play in the same conference so they won't cross each other's paths too often. I think that's part of the reason Eli threatened to hold out on the Chargers, and I wonder if he would have said the same to the Raiders if the Chargers had passed on him (and the Browns, if he dropped that far). Same with Peyton: I wonder if he wasn't seriously considering any NFC teams back in 2012 for this reason. I think the only other team he actually visited besides Denver was Arizona, though.

Still, if Eli also took that stance with the Raiders at number 2, it would have cemented his first impression and everyone would probably view him the same way the Chargers' fanbase does to this day.
 

HarleyQuinn

Laugh This Off... Puddin'!
Staff member
Skywarp! said:
Harley Quinn said:
Skywarp! said:
A lot of ink has been spilled on alternate timelines over the 2004 NFL Draft. What if the Chargers heed Manning's warning and don't draft him? Who do they take at number 1? What if they do draft Manning but hang onto him, making him hold out on signing? The Giants have said that if they couldn't get Manning, they'd have taken Big Ben. If that happened, where did Manning and Rivers end up? Do the Patriots go 19-0? Do the Giants win any Super Bowls with Big Ben? Does he implode when the NY media digs its claws into his sordid lifestyle? Who is behind center for the Chargers and Steelers, and do they win any Super Bowls?
#1: San Diego probably would have taken OT Robert Gallery at #1 although Larry Fitzgerald would have been an enticing option. They could have gotten by with Drew Brees at QB then.

#2: Manning probably falls to the Cleveland Browns. He likely would have sat behind Jeff Garcia for the 2004 season and been named the starter in 2005. Rivers ends up landing in Pittsburgh instead of Big Ben. He struggles there behind Tommy Maddox (who keeps the starting gig) and struggles as a starter into the 2007/2008 season.

#3: I think the Giants could have won 1 Super Bowl but it would have been in spite of Ben's abilities. His game's been tailor made for him in Pittsburgh (scramble bombs, load up at WR skill wise) and I don't think Coughlin/Giants would have been nearly as accommodating.

#4: Chargers settle for Drew Brees. He helps take them deep, possibly an AFC Title Game or Super Bowl but that's it. Steelers struggle with Rivers, Cowher never wins a ring.
Re: #2: I don't think he would have fallen to the Browns. If he were still available at number 4, the Giants would have taken him. The Raiders (Rich Gannon (Kerry Collins was only released by the Giants after securing both Manning and Kurt Warner)), Cardinals (Josh McCown) and Redskins (Patrick Ramsey) would also have had to pass on him to fall to the Browns. Not saying that Fitzgerald and Sean Taylor weren't great picks for those franchises, but I wonder if they'd still have picked the same.

It also would have given us the chance to see just how petulant Manning could have been coming out of college. My speculation on the Manning brothers is that they don't want to play in the same conference so they won't cross each other's paths too often. I think that's part of the reason Eli threatened to hold out on the Chargers, and I wonder if he would have said the same to the Raiders if the Chargers had passed on him (and the Browns, if he dropped that far). Same with Peyton: I wonder if he wasn't seriously considering any NFC teams back in 2012 for this reason. I think the only other team he actually visited besides Denver was Arizona, though.

Still, if Eli also took that stance with the Raiders at number 2, it would have cemented his first impression and everyone would probably view him the same way the Chargers' fanbase does to this day.
Whoops. Misread your Giants taking Big Ben part initially. Feh. I'll stick with my answers and pretend Manning scared them off somehow ;)
 

Big Beard Booty Daddy

Canadian Destroyer213
Re: "What if's" of sports history

Skywarp! said:
What if Drazen Petrovic didn't die? Does Chuck Daly not resign after the '93 season? Do the Nets make a deep run in the '94 playoffs with Petrovic, Coleman, and Kenny Anderson? Could they have stolen a championship from the Rockets before Jordan came back? Would they have accomplished enough that they don't move to Brooklyn?

I'll say: yes, yes, no, no.
There is a lot of talk that he was going to sign with the Knicks before the '94 season since there was a rift with he and the team. If that happens, I think they win the title.
 

Alfdogg

Alfdogg
Nephew Tommy said:
What if Portland won Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference Finals? Legacies were made and broken in that game.
Wanted to get a little discussion on this one because this was potentially a pretty big one. Criticism was mounting on Shaq over the fact that he'd never won a championship, particularly that most of his exits had ended in embarassing fashion as the result of sweeps. I've heard it suggested that the Lakers would have blown it up had they blown that series, but I find it hard to believe that they would only give Phil Jackson one year with that team. But obviously if that does happen a lot changes.

Scottie Pippen sheds the sidekick label and his legacy is much more favorable, his place as a top 50 player is never again disputed.

The Spurs probably end up with 2 or 3 more titles and Tim Duncan is inserted into the GOAT discussion by this point.

Phil Jackson's legacy in terms of being a GOAT coach takes a hit as he is seen as not being able to win a title without Michael Jordan.

As for Shaq and Kobe, who knows where they end up in all this. But as I said, I don't think this is a likely scenario...I think they keep it together and not much changes historically on the Lakers' side of things.
 

Skywarp!

Integral Poster
Broward said:
What if Houston doesn't choke in Buffalo..?
Houston probably beats Pittsburgh the next week. A little iffy against Miami the week after that, but I like their chances. Regardless, Dallas murders the AFC Champs in the Soup anyway.
 

Skywarp!

Integral Poster
Re: "What if's" of sports history

Detective Ventriloquist said:
Skywarp! said:
What if Drazen Petrovic didn't die? Does Chuck Daly not resign after the '93 season? Do the Nets make a deep run in the '94 playoffs with Petrovic, Coleman, and Kenny Anderson? Could they have stolen a championship from the Rockets before Jordan came back? Would they have accomplished enough that they don't move to Brooklyn?

I'll say: yes, yes, no, no.
There is a lot of talk that he was going to sign with the Knicks before the '94 season since there was a rift with he and the team. If that happens, I think they win the title.
Ewing, Oakley, and Petrovic? That would have been quite the force to reckon with. In terms of guards, where would he have been on the depth chart with Starks and Harper? Starks was the SG, same as Petrovic.
 

Alfdogg

Alfdogg
Starks is probably moved to sixth man and/or is eventually traded (which eventually happened when they signed Allan Houston)...can't see Petrovic being happy coming off the bench for him.
 

Alfdogg

Alfdogg
Since we're on the Knicks...what if they lose to the Bulls in '94? They had always had the stigma of "could never get past Jordan", but now Jordan is gone, and the Bulls still beat them. What happens? Do they blow it up?
 

Skywarp!

Integral Poster
Yeah, maybe Ewing requests a Barkley-esque trade or starts looking for a major contender to hitch his wagon to, like Drexler.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
It was revealed this weekend that in 1998, the Phoenix Suns offered to trade Steve Nash to the Vancouver Grizzlies for Bryant Reeves but the Grizz turned it down because they didn't wanna give up Big Country.
 

HarleyQuinn

Laugh This Off... Puddin'!
Staff member
Here are some interesting ones out of boredom...

#1: What if Peyton Manning came out in the 1997 NFL Draft and the Jets took him in their first year under Parcells? Does Parcells challenge for Super Bowls and not end up in Dallas? Does Belichick eventually still land with the Patriots as HC or does he stay and end up getting a job elsewhere? Does Peyton become Peyton with Parcells seeing him as his new Drew Bledsoe?
#2: What if Bill Walsh doesn't retire after the 1988 NFL Season?. He'd later coach at Stanford from 1992-1994 as well going 10-3 in his first year but struggling to 4-7 and 3-7-1 records after. Does San Fran remain a dynasty? What happens with Montana/Young? How do the Cowboys and their dynasty get impacted?
#3: What if June Jones doesn't get fired after the 3-13 season in 1996? How would that impact Hawaii's future fate? Would the Run & Shoot have carried over at the NFL level into the early 2000s with Gilbride also being San Diego's HC in 1997? Does the "slot" WR become more of a staple earlier than 2007 after the explosion of Welker with the Patriots?
 
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