30 Days, 30 MLB All Franchise Teams

[King Kamala]

Texas Rangers were third team I was thinking of. They don't exactly have a deep, rich history of great starting pitchers and I feel like headlocking, old man Nolan Ryan should be good enough to make the cut.

 

[Dandy]

@alkeiper , could I trouble you to name the overall #1 for each franchise from your team reviews?

 

[alkeiper]

@alkeiper , could I trouble you to name the overall #1 for each franchise from your team reviews?

The best player in each franchise's history?

 

[alkeiper]

CLEVELAND INDIANS

I feel like the Cleveland Indians have an inordinate number of pitchers in their history who were great and spent just a plurality of their career in Cleveland. Gaylord Perry, Bert Blyleven, Luis Tiant, Bartolo Colon, C.C. Sabathia, Allie Reynolds, Dennis Eckersley, etc.

CATCHERS
Sandy Alomar Jr.
Victor Martinez
Steve O'Neill

INFIELDERS
Bobby Avila
Lou Boudreau
Nap Lajoie
Jose Ramirez
Al Rosen
Carlos Santana
Joe Sewell
Jim Thome
Hal Trosky
Omar Vizquel

OUTFIELDERS
Earl Averill
Albert Belle
Michael Brantley
Rocky Colavito
Larry Doby
Elmer Flick
"Shoeless" Joe Jackson
Kenny Lofton
Manny Ramirez
Tris Speaker

PITCHERS
Stan Coveleski
Bob Feller
Wes Ferrell
Mike Garcia
Mel Harder
Willis Hudlin
Doug Jones
Addie Joss
Corey Kluber
Bob Lemon
Sam McDowell
Jose Mesa
Charles Nagy
Gaylord Perry
C.C. Sabathia
George Uhle
Early Wynn

The Indians also have a few pitchers who made substantial hitting contributions. Lemon did not need help to make the roster. But Wes Ferrell hit 19 home runs and slugged .454 for Cleveland. George Uhle in one season hit .361 in 144 at bats. A lot of pitchers are grouped together at their level and it's a tiebreaker. And for Ferrell it's a significant part of his narrative as a player.

I chose Avila over Joe Gordon and Vizquel over Francisco Lindor. The latter players had greater peak value but the former have more career value and more familiarity. Lindor is an incredible player but he had to do it on a team with two HOF shortstops.

Brantley over Jeff Heath. Heath was the better hitter, but also a racist POS. I'm making a judgment call. It's probably unfair and feel free to call me out when Cap Anson is a Cub.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

It's almost unfair to look at those 90s Indians teams and how stacked they were. You could legitimately throw 6-7 of the starting lineup on this list and I don't know how many teams you could do that for regardless of the era.

 

[Baby Shoes]

The Eckersley call out is interesting to me because he’s a guy that had relevant years with Cleveland, Boston, Oakland and even St. Louis at the end but he’s probably only going to make Oakland at this point.

 

[alkeiper]

The Eckersley call out is interesting to me because he’s a guy that had relevant years with Cleveland, Boston, Oakland and even St. Louis at the end but he’s probably only going to make Oakland at this point.

I put him on Boston's team. People forget that Eckersley was a very good starting pitcher for a decade. He won 151 games as a starter, placed in Cy Young award voting twice, made two All Star teams and threw a no hitter.

For Boston he had 21.9 bWAR. A bunch of pitchers clumped together. The Cy finishes pushed him up. It probably doesn't hurt that he continues to work for the team.

 

[Baby Shoes]

I was thinking he may have been on Boston was too distracted to go back and look.

 

[snuffbox]

Thank you for including Addie Joss!

 

[Dandy]

The best player in each franchise's history?

Yes. You mentioned there is an order to your list of players so could you denote which of them was #1 overall?

 

[alkeiper]

Thank you for including Addie Joss!

Full career with the team, Hall of Famer, 11th in team history in bWAR. He's an easy choice.

 

[alkeiper]

Yes. You mentioned there is an order to your list of players so could you denote which of them was #1 overall?

I mentioned 39th and 40th spots, but there's no formal ranking. A Bob Feller for example is so far above the bar that I don't need to debate him against Lajoie or Speaker. Either way they're all going to be on the roster. I could do a #1 for each franchise as an bonus but it would be a side debate.

 

[Hawk 34]

I mentioned 39th and 40th spots, but there's no formal ranking. A Bob Feller for example is so far above the bar that I don't need to debate him against Lajoie or Speaker. Either way they're all going to be on the roster. I could do a #1 for each franchise as an bonus but it would be a side debate.

All you have to do for @Dandy is rank Javier Valentin as the greatest Reds player of all time and everyone will be very pleased.

 

[Dandy]

Sorry, @alkeiper. I misinterpreted where you were talking about some number rankings. We should just have a separate thread for the number one overall franchise player.

 

[alkeiper]

All you have to do for @Dandy is rank Javier Valentin as the greatest Reds player of all time and everyone will be very pleased.

He made it onto B-Ref with a Reds cap, which is almost as good as wearing one into the Hall of Fame.

The Reds list is all about finding a way to include Adam Dunn to piss off Marty Brennaman.

 

[snuffbox]

Full career with the team, Hall of Famer, 11th in team history in bWAR. He's an easy choice.

A fundraiser game after he died during his career is regarded as the first all star game.

 

[alkeiper]

Detroit Tigers

Posting this early because it's easier than assuming I'll have time to type it up over the weekend. Ignore it until Saturday if you like.

CATCHERS
Johnny Bassler
Bill Freehan
Lance Parrish

INFIELDERS
Miguel Cabrera
Norm Cash
Travis Fryman
Charlie Gehringer
Hank Greenberg
George Kell
Harvey Kuenn
Dick McAuliffe
Alan Trammell
Lou Whitaker
Rudy York

OUTFIELDERS
Ty Cobb
Sam Crawford
Kirk Gibson
Harry Heilmann
Willie Horton
Chet Lemon
Al Kaline
Bobby Veach

UTILITY
Tony Phillips

PITCHERS
Tommy Bridges
Jim Bunning
Hooks Dauss
Mike Henneman
Willie Hernandez
John Hiller
Frank Lary
Mickey Lolich
Denny McLain
Jack Morris
George Mullin
Hal Newhouser
Schoolboy Rowe
Max Scherzer
Dizzy Trout
Virgil Trucks
Justin Verlander

The toughest decision for me here is actually an obscure player, Donie Bush. A deadball era shortstop who led the league in walks five times but was apparently awful at turning the double play. He's also ninth in Tigers history in games played. Meanwhile there's Harvey Kuenn who doesn't have the same sabermetric stats but was a star, got the Tigers Rocky Colavito in a trade, was versatile and is probably better suited to the modern game. It's a tough cut.

Pitching wise probably not many surprises. Scherzer only pitched five seasons but won a Cy Young. You know he's actually second in Tigers history in postseason games started?! I felt better rating him after seeing that.

We got Scherzer in. Can we get Mark Fidrych? I just can't do it. That 1976 season was magic. Baseball-reference.com gave him a 9.6 WAR for the season. Fangraphs gives him 4.7. How much was his defense helping him? I don't know. I just couldn't justify ranking him above someone like Frank Lary who won 123 games and had seasons 75% as good but did it multiple times.

 

[alkeiper]

Houston Astros

Ditto. Replace Saturday with Sunday.

CATCHERS
Alan Ashby
Brad Ausmus
Jason Castro

INFIELDERS
Jose Altuve
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Alex Bregman
Carlos Correa
Glenn Davis
Bill Doran
Morgan Ensberg
Joe Morgan
Dickie Thon
Bob Watson

OUTFIELDERS
Lance Berkman
Cesar Cedeno
Jose Cruz
Richard Hidalgo
Hunter Pence
Terry Puhl
George Springer
Jimmy Wynn

PITCHERS
Roger Clemens
Larry Dierker
Turk Farrell
Ken Forsch
Mike Hampton
Dallas Keuchel
Brad Lidge
Joe Niekro
Roy Oswalt
Shane Reynolds
J.R. Richard
Nolan Ryan
Joe Sambito
Mike Scott
Dave Smith
Justin Verlander
Billy Wagner
Don Wilson

I picked Sambito over Octavio Dotel for the final spot because Sambito got a Cy Young vote and an extra lefty in the bullpen never hurt.

Justin Verlander gets in for the 2017 ALCS alone.

I would've liked to include Denny Walling, Art Howe, Marwin Gonzalez. For some reason the Astros love their utility players.

 

[MFer]

Tigers: I don't have much to add. Fryman was an underrated player from the lean 90s years. Cecil Fielder is the biggest name from my childhood who didn't make the cut. I wondered if a few extra players from that 2006-2016 run could've gotten squeezed in, guys like Pudge Rodriguez, Carlos Guillen, Victor Martinez, and Ian Kinsler. Perhaps they didn't play in the D long enough or didn't have enough of their prime years there.

 

[King Kamala]

At first glance, I was surprised Cecil Fielder didn't make the cut since in my mind, he was the Tiger of the '90s. But then I remembered the Tigers were ass in the '90s and you can't justify him getting a spot over Norm Cash or Rudy York.

 

[alkeiper]

The Tigers are just really stacked at 1B. Rudy York has the advantage of being the fourth catcher as well. Pudge is close, it’s just that Bassler was a pretty good player in his own right. The closest of those Tigers is actually Curtis Granderson.

 

[alkeiper]

Kansas City Royals

CATCHERS
Mike Macfarlane
Salvador Perez
Darrell Porter
John Wathan

INFIELDERS
George Brett
Billy Butley
Alcides Escobar
Eric Hosmer
John Mayberry
Whit Merrifield
Freddie Patek
Bill Pecota
Kevin Seitzer
Mike Sweeney
Frank White

OUTFIELDERS
Carlos Beltran
Lorenzo Cain
Al Cowens
Alex Gordon
Hal McRae
Amos Otis
Danny Tartabull
Willie Wilson

PITCHERS
Kevin Appier
Steve Busby
Wade Davis
Danny Duffy
Tom Gordon
Zack Greinke
Mark Gubicza
Larry Gura
Kelvim Herrera
Greg Holland
Charlie Leibrandt
Dennis Leonard
Jeff Montgomery
Dan Quisenberry
Bret Saberhagen
Joakim Soria
Paul Splittorff

Thin in middle infield, stacked in center field and the bullpen. My final four spots were filled by Pecota, Beltran, Hosmer and Butler.

 

[alkeiper]

Not much interest in the Astros or Royals, huh?

Milwaukee Brewers

Here's a challenge. Find sixteen interesting pitchers who pitched for the Brewers longer than a cup of coffee. If it wasn't for Shane Victorino C.C. Sabathia might have made this team. I am hard pressed to find pitchers who had more than one All Star appearance, or more than one Cy Young award placement. The pitchers I did select with a few exceptions are mostly 3-4 starter types with average to below average strikeout rates. This team can hit though,

CATCHERS
Jonathan Lucroy
Dave Nilsson
Darrell Porter
B.J. Surhoff

INFIELDERS
Jeff Cirillo
Cecil Cooper
Prince Fielder
Jim Gantner
J.J. Hardy
Paul Molitor
Don Money
George Scott
Rickie Weeks
Robin Yount

OUTFIELDERS
Ryan Braun
Jeromy Burnitz
Carlos Gomez
Geoff Jenkins
Sixto Lezcano
Dave May
Ben Oglivie
Gorman Thomas

UTILITY
Bill Hall

PITCHERS
John Axford
Chris Bosio
Mike Caldwell
Jim Colborn
Rollie Fingers
Yovani Gallardo
Moose Haas
Josh Hader
Teddy Higuera
Corey Knebel
Dan Plesac
Francisco Rodriguez
Ben Sheets
Jim Slaton
Lary Sorensen
Pete Vuckovich
Bill Wegman

 

[King Kamala]

Not much interest in the Astros or Royals, huh?

I was kind of surprised to see Tom Gordon there since I always associate him with the late '90s Red Sox (and the second tier Stephen King book loosely about him) but I didn't know he started his career as rookie phenom starter in Kansas City. His career as great reliever for major market teams kind of overshadowed his start with mediocre to poor Royals.

Also...how the hell did I not know Dee Gordon was his kid!? Amazing The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon hasn't been adapted yet either. Maybe the most famous Stephen King book that hasn't unless you count The Dark Tower sequels maybe. Anyways that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Baby Shoes]

Man, Kamala not only not knowing Tom
Gordon as a Royal and knowing him from his last leg stretch as a Red Sox player is definitely a That’s So @King Kamala at the moment.

Just wait until John Olerud’s run with the Mariners isn’t mentioned and Kamala finds out he played for the Blue Jays.

 

[King Kamala]

All three of his All Star appearances were as an AL (b)East reliever! Also Tom Gordon played a whole decade after his Red Sox run! His Boston run was midcareer!

 

[Baby Shoes]

Wow. I didn’t realize he made All-Star as a Red Sox, Yankee and Phillie. I just always think of him as a Royal.

I was thinking he was out of the league by the early 2000s, not hitting his peak of individual accolades. Totally had forgotten he was still on the Phillies World Series team and retired with the Diamondbacks.

 

[King Kamala]

He was setup man for Mariano on the '04 Yankees team that blew the 0-3 lead in the ALCS too. He had a quietly very memorable MLB career (even aside from the second tier Stephen King book partly about him).

 

[alkeiper]

I would've figured Gordon's Royals career had been better, honestly. He was a dominant minor league pitcher. 29-6 in three seasons before making his MLB debut. In his first four seasons his K/9 was 8.7 when the league rate was still only about 5.5. And he was a good pitcher though it seems like the Royals vacillated between making him a starter or a reliever. Obviously his stuff played up in the bullpen and he had a long career. Since he was on the first Phillies team that won a division in 14 years (and the World Series the next) I have fond memories of him.

Trying to find out what the Royals usage of him was about, it just looks like Gordon was the fifth starter and in that era the "spot starter" was an actual role. Did note that Gordon was the subject of many trade rumors in '91 as the Royals sought a bat. He also battled hemorrhoids.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Milwaukee is just so forgettable pitching-wise. I remember guys like Cal Eldred, Scott Karl, and Chris Capuano but it's worth highlighting just 7 pitchers have 80+ career wins for them. They always had guys with a fluke good year or two at most who'd then just seemingly vanish into mediocrity or fall off the face of the Earth completely.