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Dark Side of the Ring

Baby Shoes

Baby Shoes
There's been discussion in other threads but I hadn't posted anything or chimed in because I wasn't sure if I got Viceland and had the ability to watch. Checked this morning and I do. They had their premiere episode on the relationship between Randy Savage and Miss Elizabeth. Montreal Screwjob is next, followed by Bruiser Brody, which has already been made available on several on-demand services.

It does appear the Viceland website currently has Macho and Brody available to watch - https://www.viceland.com/en_us/show/dark-side-of-the-ring

I think there is supposed to be at least a Moolah one within the seven or eight that are considered Season One. Supposedly there are several more ready to go if they get greenlight for a second season including some topics that don't get talked about much like Chris Benoit and Dino Bravo.
 

Baby Shoes

Baby Shoes
Watched the two that are available right now today.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the Savage/Elizabeth stuff. Nothing really new or interesting came about and it was a lot of Linda Hogan.

The Bruiser Brody one on the other hand, I really thought was well done. I didn't know a good deal of the story and hearing the first hand accounts of Tony Atlas and Dutch Mantel were really interesting to me.
 

Baby Shoes

Baby Shoes
I kept flip flopping between if the reenactments were good cheesy or bad cheesy. Definitely gave off the feeling of some of those older programs that used those but then you have the cartoony stuff like Hogan's red and yellow popping out at a BBQ or the caricature they had of Dutch Mantel in the Brody one.

One thing that is rumored for this week's screwjob is a big reveal. Dating back to when it happened, Meltzer said he wasn't going to reveal who planned the Screwjob until that person died. And supposely this person reveals themselves on the episode. Speculation online believes it will be
Gerald Brisco
which would be logical. One of those things I don't want to get my hopes too high, which I think is what happened with the Macho one.
 
Saw the Macho Man/Elizabeth and Brody ones. Def feels like this would be better for people who don’t know about these stories. They try to blend in the work with real life in a way that’s kinda clunky at times.
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
Baby Shoes said:
I kept flip flopping between if the reenactments were good cheesy or bad cheesy. Definitely gave off the feeling of some of those older programs that used those but then you have the cartoony stuff like Hogan's red and yellow popping out at a BBQ or the caricature they had of Dutch Mantel in the Brody one.

One thing that is rumored for this week's screwjob is a big reveal. Dating back to when it happened, Meltzer said he wasn't going to reveal who planned the Screwjob until that person died. And supposely this person reveals themselves on the episode. Speculation online believes it will be
Gerald Brisco
which would be logical. One of those things I don't want to get my hopes too high, which I think is what happened with the Macho one.

Reportedly we are getting some hot Corny/Russo bickering this week too.
 

Baby Shoes

Baby Shoes
Ah, that's right. I did hear that Cornette is postponing the normal drop time of his podcast so he can follow up on this for the episode this week
 

SUPER LEATHER

Integral Poster
I enjoyed both episodes; the reenactment stuff reminded me of Unsolved Mysteries or Cocaine Cowboys. Macho Man & Hogan's doubles always wearing their ring gear regardless of the scenario got a chuckle out of me. These shows serve a nice purpose for the entry-level die-hard fan.

RE: the screwjob episode...Bret already revealed that
Gerald Brisco
masterminded Montreal in his book.
 

Youth N Asia

(Thinking of a new title for this space)
I liked the Macho/Liz episode quite a bit. My only complaint was the music would overwhelm the dialogue a few times.
 

SUPER LEATHER

Integral Poster
I also liked the Hulkster criticizing the Macho Man episode on Twitter, which was more of a passive-aggressive complaint about Linda Hogan's presence than anything else. He thought it was a shame that the DSOTR producers didn't check all of the sources, which of course means they didn't talk to him.

Their response was that they had reached out to him, but he declined to participate. Oops.
 

Youth N Asia

(Thinking of a new title for this space)
While i don’t care for Linda one way or the other. It would have been a 95% Randy episode without her.
 

Fall of Epic

Epic Reine
https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/1117507553858965504

Rock's a fan.

I greatly enjoyed the first two episodes especially the Brody one because as Baby Shoes stated, to get those first-hand accounts on what happened was fascinating. Can't wait for the Montreal Screwjob one.
 

Gert

Integral Poster
Watched the Brody one last night, watching Savage and Liz now.

The Brody one is really sad, and a travesty of justice of the legal system, but I did not realize that Brody had taken such liberties with Invader years before.
 

Master Thrasher

Seven Time Tetris 99 Champ!
Gert said:
Watched the Brody one last night, watching Savage and Liz now.

The Brody one is really sad, and a travesty of justice of the legal system, but I did not realize that Brody had taken such liberties with Invader years before.

I looked on Wrestlingdata.com and they wrestled many times together for the WWWF.

https://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bilanzen&bilanzart=&wrestler=1568&jahr=1976&monat=7
https://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bilanzen&bilanzart=&wrestler=1568&jahr=1976&monat=8
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
Gert said:
Watched the Brody one last night, watching Savage and Liz now.

The Brody one is really sad, and a travesty of justice of the legal system, but I did not realize that Brody had taken such liberties with Invader years before.

It was a different business. If Brody was building himself up to work with Bruno, he wasn't giving the flippy Puerto Rican any shine. Stan Hansen worked the same way. I just watched Hansen eat up ROAD WARRIOR HAWK because it was a fight, bah gawd.
 

Gert

Integral Poster
When he was beating the shit out of Invader, was he going to fight Bruno in the same territory? Because, and I respect your opinion on here because of your knowledge and history of the business, but if it wasn't the same place and it was just a Bill Apter magazine article, was it necessary because the business was different back then?
 

SUPER LEATHER

Integral Poster
Gert said:
When he was beating the shit out of Invader, was he going to fight Bruno in the same territory? Because, and I respect your opinion on here because of your knowledge and history of the business, but if it wasn't the same place and it was just a Bill Apter magazine article, was it necessary because the business was different back then?

Brody's rationale (Hansen's too) was that doing the job or looking vulnerable to lesser opponents would affect his business with All Japan. One month-long tour with AJPW would net him tens of thousands of dollars, all guaranteed with annual raises. He wasn't going to risk his spot and his money so some pipsqueak like the Invader could look good at his expense somewhere else. How would it look if Baba & company saw magazine photos of Bruiser Brody getting his ass kicked by the Invader when their own talent couldn't put him down?

Honestly, Brody probably didn't treat Invader much differently in the ring than he did other wrestlers of a similar size & stature. However, he also didn't respect Jose Gonzales outside of the ring and wouldn't give him any leeway. I always figured Carlos Colon & Victor Jovica used that to their advantage when pitting Gonzales & Brody against each other backstage.
 

alkeiper

Welcoming our new insect overlords
All the listed Brody/Gonzalez matches occurred in WWWF, so it was the same territory, same time period as the Bruno series.
 

Gert

Integral Poster
Super Leather said:
Gert said:
When he was beating the shit out of Invader, was he going to fight Bruno in the same territory? Because, and I respect your opinion on here because of your knowledge and history of the business, but if it wasn't the same place and it was just a Bill Apter magazine article, was it necessary because the business was different back then?

Brody's rationale (Hansen's too) was that doing the job or looking vulnerable to lesser opponents would affect his business with All Japan. One month-long tour with AJPW would net him tens of thousands of dollars, all guaranteed with annual raises. He wasn't going to risk his spot and his money so some pipsqueak like the Invader could look good at his expense somewhere else. How would it look if Baba & company saw magazine photos of Bruiser Brody getting his ass kicked by the Invader when their own talent couldn't put him down?

Honestly, Brody probably didn't treat Invader much differently in the ring than he did other wrestlers of a similar size & stature. However, he also didn't respect Jose Gonzales outside of the ring and wouldn't give him any leeway. I always figured Carlos Colon & Victor Jovica used that to their advantage when pitting Gonzales & Brody against each other backstage.

In regards to what you said about Carlos and Victor, do you think what happened was part of a larger play of not wanting Brody to have a piece of the WWC? That was certainly something I never really knew about until the documentary.
 

SUPER LEATHER

Integral Poster
Gert said:
Super Leather said:
Gert said:
When he was beating the shit out of Invader, was he going to fight Bruno in the same territory? Because, and I respect your opinion on here because of your knowledge and history of the business, but if it wasn't the same place and it was just a Bill Apter magazine article, was it necessary because the business was different back then?

Brody's rationale (Hansen's too) was that doing the job or looking vulnerable to lesser opponents would affect his business with All Japan. One month-long tour with AJPW would net him tens of thousands of dollars, all guaranteed with annual raises. He wasn't going to risk his spot and his money so some pipsqueak like the Invader could look good at his expense somewhere else. How would it look if Baba & company saw magazine photos of Bruiser Brody getting his ass kicked by the Invader when their own talent couldn't put him down?

Honestly, Brody probably didn't treat Invader much differently in the ring than he did other wrestlers of a similar size & stature. However, he also didn't respect Jose Gonzales outside of the ring and wouldn't give him any leeway. I always figured Carlos Colon & Victor Jovica used that to their advantage when pitting Gonzales & Brody against each other backstage.

In regards to what you said about Carlos and Victor, do you think what happened was part of a larger play of not wanting Brody to have a piece of the WWC? That was certainly something I never really knew about until the documentary.

Colon & Jovica certainly wouldn't have wanted Brody having any kind of a say in how they ran their promotion. He had already caused them enough headaches without being part of the office. I do find it odd that Dutch & Tony Atlas are only now talking about Brody buying a piece of the office. One would think that someone like Meltzer or Larry Matysik would have mentioned it a long time ago as one of the conspiracy theories regarding Brody's death. I actually think Dave debunked this scenario recently.

Why would Brody buy in to a promotion that already owed him money? Colon & Jovica had been shorting him on pay and bouncing checks for years. Fritz Von Erich got them to sit down and agree to a deal where they would give Brody a percentage of what he was owed in addition to his payoffs until the full amount was paid.

Taxes were also an issue between Brody and the WWC office, as their methods for deduction were suspect at best. Colon & Jovica were likely siphoning funds. Brody refused to allow them to tax him, although he was completely above board when reporting his income to the IRS. This added to the friction between Brody and the WWC braintrust.

I don't know why anyone involved thought that Colon & Jovica would honor their agreement; the shenanigans continued anyway. My guess is that they owed more than they wanted to pay, likely more than the $25,000 that was said on the broadcast. Brody was just a gringo kicking up a fuss on their home turf where they had the money and the power to make problems go away. Jose Gonzales was a perfect candidate to do their dirty work. Brody's death solved their financial dispute, sending a message to any other American wrestlers thinking about making noise about their payoffs.
 

Fall of Epic

Epic Reine
So I see the Montreal Screwjob episode is up but it's blocked by a paywall so I'm going to surf the net for a decent viewing copy. I'm sure reddit is all about it.
 

Hawk 34

Integral Poster
It was fine, the always hilarious re-enactments was pretty amusing especially the Shawn one. Didn’t break any new ground except someone finally saying he pitched the actual finish to Vince and if you ever really paid attention to this guy over the years, it’s not a surprise.

The last 10 minutes just became a hilarious Russo/Cornette insult fest which anyone who came into this episode with no understanding of their history must have been really confused by their vitriol towards each other.
 

Big Beard Booty Daddy

Canadian Destroyer213
Epic by Faith No More said:
So I see the Montreal Screwjob episode is up but it's blocked by a paywall so I'm going to surf the net for a decent viewing copy. I'm sure reddit is all about it.

It's up on Viceland.com right now. They put each episode up the day after it airs on TV.
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
I swear Corny has told this story before. Definitely the part about Russo not understanding what a screw job was.

I have watched just about every shoot Corny he's ever done and the whole run of Alice/Brian Last and Corny's pod, so I can't pin point an exact interview.

I love when Bret shits on Shawn.

It's still ridiculous that Vince didn't just have Bret lose to Shamrock a week later or something. Hart was under contract for several more weeks. It just couldn't be a loss in Canada to Shawn because Shawn refused to lay down for ANYONE, much less Hart.
 

Master Thrasher

Seven Time Tetris 99 Champ!
Brodypedia said:
It's still ridiculous that Vince didn't just have Bret lose to Shamrock a week later or something. Hart was under contract for several more weeks. It just couldn't be a loss in Canada to Shawn because Shawn refused to lay down for ANYONE, much less Hart.

It was a powerplay on Vince's part. Really Vince could have stripped him of the belt before the show and sent him on his way to WCW.

Bret didn't like laying down for anyone. Bulldog beat him with a fluke rollup for the IC belt. The Mountie beat him when he had a 120 degree fever. Bret lost to Backlund when Owen told his parents to throw in the towel. Bret lost to Shawn in overtime in the Iron Man match (ok that was clean). Bret lost WWF Championship when Austin ran in and hit Bret with a chair.
 

Hawk 34

Integral Poster
Brodypedia said:
I swear Corny has told this story before. Definitely the part about Russo not understanding what a screw job was.

I have watched just about every shoot Corny he's ever done and the whole run of Alice/Brian Last and Corny's pod, so I can't pin point an exact interview.

I love when Bret shits on Shawn.

It's still ridiculous that Vince didn't just have Bret lose to Shamrock a week later or something. Hart was under contract for several more weeks. It just couldn't be a loss in Canada to Shawn because Shawn refused to lay down for ANYONE, much less Hart.

Cornette addresss that sentiment as to why it wouldn’t happen with his latest podcast as well as more details that weren’t shown in the documentary.
 

Valeyard

Burn
So is anything new really said in these? Because all the recaps make it sound like condensed shoot interviews from the last 20 years.
 

Hawk 34

Integral Poster
The Savage stuff had a lot of personal details about their relationship but more details about how paranoid Randy was isn’t a grand revelation. These documentaries aren’t specifically designed for wrestling dorks who have watched all the shoots and read all the observers related to the subject. It’s still good storytelling even if you know the nuts and bolts of the events.
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
Thrasher said:
Brodypedia said:
It's still ridiculous that Vince didn't just have Bret lose to Shamrock a week later or something. Hart was under contract for several more weeks. It just couldn't be a loss in Canada to Shawn because Shawn refused to lay down for ANYONE, much less Hart.

It was a powerplay on Vince's part. Really Vince could have stripped him of the belt before the show and sent him on his way to WCW.

Bret didn't like laying down for anyone. Bulldog beat him with a fluke rollup for the IC belt. The Mountie beat him when he had a 120 degree fever. Bret lost to Backlund when Owen told his parents to throw in the towel. Bret lost to Shawn in overtime in the Iron Man match (ok that was clean). Bret lost WWF Championship when Austin ran in and hit Bret with a chair.

There was a reason wrestlers used to draw money. I think Warrior, Hogan, HBK, Hart (after 92), Taker and others have only a handful of clear losses on their record. HBK of course is the most notorious of that group as he managed to "lose" something like 7 titles without being in the ring. Shawn's always been the worst for me, since he never had the decency to draw any money or ratings while in his massive prick phase. His 2002 run at least helped his box office history recover.
 

SUPER LEATHER

Integral Poster
Brodypedia said:
I swear Corny has told this story before. Definitely the part about Russo not understanding what a screw job was.

Cornette tells the story here, including coming up with the double-cross idea and Russo's clueless reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UIEOLTxdEs

Totally hilarious that Cornette finally managed to express his Russo hatred in a mainstream forum, although those two bickering over who deserves the credit for conceiving the screwjob finish for the final twenty minutes was a bit much. Neither of them "deserve" credit for it if you ask me. Cornette may have thrown the idea out there in frustration, but he had nothing to do its execution. That was all Vince & Jerry Brisco.
 
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