Mac Vs. PC, I need help.....

[Frosty]

Sorry if this was done before, but I figured there was no harm in asking for a hand.

Ok, Here is my dilemma. I will definitely be buying a new computer in the next month or so. I've been a PC guy since I've started using computers but lately I've been having a TON of problems with my computers. Basically I'm fed up with shelling out my cash and then ending up unsatisfied with my computer.

With that said I already have a desktop that I bought 2 years ago that I intend on keeping as my main PC, but I plan on keeping it offline, and using it mostly as an edit suite.

I've had a few people toss out the idea of buying a Mac but I've been skeptical. I've never used one before, I don't know how easy it is to get software for them. (And by "get" I definitely don't mean downloading)[/sarcasm]

Also, I'm not even 100% sure what Mac's a capable of, having never used one before. Or how compatible they will be with some of the existing hardware I have (ie: Router etc).

I know they are more money and I don't mind shelling out a little extra to get something that will be less troublesome then my previous computer(s).

My main uses will be writing, surfing the internet, and if possible some minor video and photo editing. The later 2 are less important seeing as how I have my "at home" computer for that anyway.

I'd love any help or discussion you guys could give me. I'm not looking for a Mac vs. PC debate, just more or less for some people with experience with Macs to give me a heads up on stuff I should pay attention to, or look out for etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

[luke-o]

Buy a PC as most Mac owners I know become wankers with an awful superiority complex after they get one

 

[AndrewTS]

http://www.apple.com/buy/locator/service

Put in your zip and see how many places around you show up, then check to see what "services" they have offered, and see if they have repair (Carry-in) service. If no one does, then you are not going to be able to get service on a without mailing it in. If you get a desktop mac, then you can't get a pre-paid shipping box and you'll have to arrange something with a service provider further away from you (either do a hell of a lot of traveling or mail it to a repair shop).

If you're doing "minor photo and video editing" i.e. not professional, imovie and iphoto are built-in and free on a new Mac. Ideally if you have an Apple Store near you, you could stop in and have a demonstration from some one there.

Also, I'm not even 100% sure what Mac's a capable of, having never used one before. Or how compatible they will be with some of the existing hardware I have (ie: Router etc).

A router is a router. There's no difference with the way they actually work together, the only difference is that the router manufacturers are universally too lazy to develop configuration software for the mac, so if you need to configure (or if you already have a router set up and working, RE-configure) the router with new settings, you'll have to do it the old fashioned way: with a web browser and your router's default gateway.

I don't know what other hardware you're talking about, but it's generally not too different. The biggest problem is that any third party company, even if their department *technically* supports macs, generally know jack shit about macs and act like whimpering fucktards if you call in and say you have a mac. For example, when a customer calls with an internet connection issue, and they may have *already called their ISP*, 95% of the time they need to just power cycle their modem (and sometimes router), and the ISP tech people are just dumbshits who must have thought that was too complicated just because the customer had a mac.

It doesn't sound like there would be much you ultimately need to worry about, but be prepared to do a little work on your own with some 3rd party products to make up for that company's ineptitude. The biggest bullshit I have to put up with as a tech support agent for Apple are jackasses who feel that they are entitled to have us support another company's product because that other company sucks and is too lazy too support their own products, train their staff, or provide them decent resources to help mac owners.

 

[AntiLeaf33]

Macs are great for the every day, typical user kind of stuff. The biggest issue I have seen with Mac's is that a lot of software just isn't compatible for a Mac, and if it is compatible, you need to buy a Mac version of said software. In terms of getting viruses on a Mac, they can happen, but with PC's owning the vast majority of the home computing market, it really makes no sense to spend time and energy to create a virus that will only cause issues on about 5% of the systems out there. As Macs become more popular then so will Mac viruses and spyware.

 

[AndrewTS]

As Macs become more popular then so will Mac viruses and spyware.

I'm sure that this is the most likely time for lots of computer buyers to be spending twice as much on a Mac as they would to get an equivalent PC.

 

[Vitamin X]

I'm not going to try to goad anyone into the great Mac-PC debate, but I'm definitely not a fan of Macs. They're like the Grey Goose of computers. For every decent Mac you see out there, there's a hundred better PCs for much cheaper. My laptop, for example, has a dedicated 512MB video card, a 64-bit OS, 4GB of RAM, a dual core 2.5Ghz processor, and a 250GB hard drive. It only cost me $567, $30 more for shipping. The only drawback is the design is kind of weird (black and gold gradient) but it's still $800 cheaper than the cheapest Mac laptop and it's still better or equal to the most expensive one. I also use my laptop for graphic design and a looot of video editing (I have the Adobe CS4 Master Collection, and I use Premiere, After Effects, and Encore extensively) and it's been great, especially while using its DVI out to my 22" widescreen monitor as a second monitor.

That's my main gripe with Apple there, is the hardware. The real main argument is centered around the OS, and that's more about preference than anything. I prefer Windows, as I find it easier and better to tweak than Mac's, which tries and forces you to do everything the way it wants, and for anything to work with it, you have to buy into the whole iCult bullshit, since Apple loves keeping everything proprietary.

 

[Thoth]

I used to have a Mac. I got better.

I'll readily admit my machine can't launch any games based on Unreal Engine 3, but I know WHY that is the case, and I know what I did to do it. Fixing it is actually tricky as hell, but the point is, if you have any confidence in your computing ability, stick with PC.

 

[vivisectvi]

I have both. I love my Mac - but honestly PC's are usually more cost efficient and can do the same job just as well.

 

[LuckyLopez]

I've been a Mac user my whole life. I've also been a frequent PC user. I've always found the Mac vs PC debate to be really retarded and pointless. At this stage whenever someone asks me I always say the same thing.

Macs will cost money and you might have less options with hardware or software, but in 2009 you can find most anything you want even if it means going to the Apple Store. Ultimately what you're going to be paying for with the Mac is a much simpler user life without regular virus checks, defragging, safe mode starts, and all the other maintenance issues that are much more prevalent with PCs. And to that end I find that my Macs have always lasted much longer than my PCs, making the extra cost easier to swallow.

PCs come cheaper and you can find way more cheap and good options for hardware and software around and if you want to tweak or upgrade it the PC will be easier/cheaper than the Mac. Tech support and questions you asked might actually get answered outside of an Apple Store or someone like me who has owned Macs his whole life. And people won't treat you like some sort of douchebag or moron solely because of the computer you own. Its going to be a bigger pain in the ass to keep clean and extend its life, though.

So if you're a computer guy who thinks he's going to really screw around with it and doesn't have a problem regularly maintaining the computer? Save money and get a PC. If you don't mind spending a little more because you really want a simple, hands off computer life then buy a Mac, and in my experience you might find that the added cost isn't that bad based on the computer's shelf life vs the average PC.

As far as the conversion process to Macs? You'll probably have to repurchase your software but in 2009 you shouldn't have much trouble finding it. It isn't like 15 or 20 years ago when no one was making the products for Mac. You really shouldn't have any problems with routers or compatibility at this stage, at least not in my experience. Most of those problems seemed to get answered a few OS ago.

In my experience the biggest problem PC users have are really superficial stuff that you get used to after a little while. The "Close/Minimize" buttons are on the wrong side of the window! The minimized windows appear in a different toolbar than with a PC! I've seen so many anti-Mac PC users freak out about this little things and scream up and down about things that are simply a matter of getting used to. And then even a lot of longterm Mac users don't seem to realize that many of things you can do with a PC can be done with a Mac too (you can "right click" by holding down the "Ctrl" button; you can "Control-Alt-Delete" by hitting "Opt-Cmd-Esc"; you can get a screen shot with "Cmd-Shift-3" or "Cmd-Shift-4"). A lot of Mac users I know actually think those simple PC functions don't exist on Macs but usually its simply a matter of finding the 2 or 3 button command.

 

[vivisectvi]

The one difference where I'd prefer the Mac over my PC is that it was much less of a pain in the ass to "get" (wink, wink: eyepatches and parrots, yargh!) software on my machine. It was literally drag and drop. No keys or serials or anything like that to deal with. That could just be for the package I was using, though (CS3).

 

[AndrewTS]

you can "right click" by holding down the "Ctrl" BUTTon

Or if you're using a desktop, either set up secondary click when using a Mighty Mouse or just plug in any USB mouse with 2 BUTTons.

EDIT: why does this stupid board capitalize the first four letters in b.u.t.t.o.n.?

 

[Vitamin X]

Because it's funny.

Anyways, time to play Lie vs. Truth! I can already hear the war drums starting up...

I've been a Mac user my whole life. I've also been a frequent PC user. I've always found the Mac vs PC debate to be really retarded and pointless.

TRUTH. Unfortunately, the thread title is going to inevitably lead to this.

Macs will cost money and you might have less options with hardware or software, but in 2009 you can find most anything you want even if it means going to the Apple Store.

TRUTH. Although I don't think LuckyLopez intended it as such, that's essentially the point I was making earlier about Apple sucking you into their iCult, which ultimately blows chunks and ties you down. But yes, there is a lot more software available for Mac users now than a decade or so ago when Apple was >< this close to dead and Microsoft had to bail them out to keep competition alive. Think about that for a second.

Ultimately what you're going to be paying for with the Mac is a much simpler user life without regular virus checks, defragging, safe mode starts, and all the other maintenance issues that are much more prevalent with PCs. And to that end I find that my Macs have always lasted much longer than my PCs, making the extra cost easier to swallow.

LIES. This is the typical Mac user argument. What they don't tell you- and you can take it from me, as someone who works in a major public university managing both PCs and Macs- Macs eventually DO slow down over time (because they need to be defragged just like PCs do, except there's no easy way to get to doing that in OSX like in Windows), get viruses, and crash all the damn time.

Failing that, when something goes wrong on a Mac, the solution is to spend money on it and hope it works, and if not, oh well! Buy a new one, since the next one will be coming out soon anyways. Macs run on a very typical modern consumer model in that they are basically made to only work as long as the product cycle will allow them to. PCs can be upgraded or fixed for free, if not on the cheap.

PCs come cheaper and you can find way more cheap and good options for hardware and software around and if you want to tweak or upgrade it the PC will be easier/cheaper than the Mac. Tech support and questions you asked might actually get answered outside of an Apple Store or someone like me who has owned Macs his whole life. And people won't treat you like some sort of douchebag or moron solely because of the computer you own. Its going to be a bigger pain in the ass to keep clean and extend its life, though.

TRUTH/LIES. It's true that it's easier to tweak and upgrade a PC than a Mac. That's because every hardware manufacturer makes things for Windows, only Apple makes things for the Mac. There's very little third party support, if you could even really call anything for Windows "third party". And the reason why techies treat Mac owners like douchebags and morons is largely because Macs are computers made for people who hate computers and thusly usually end up with the dumbest users. I'm not saying that's the case with you, but in my experience, anything beyond clicking and dragging is "complex stuff" for most Mac users that I have to help in my lab. And I'd definitely argue it's way harder to extend and "clean" a Mac than a PC. Have you ever tried reformatting a hard drive on a Mac in case it's messed up, and re-installing the OS? Good luck with that. If a PC messes up, or I need to upgrade the OS, hard drive, anything, it can be done in, at most an hour.

The one great thing about Apple is that the store will take care of all your needs, tech support wise, which is something that Windows-based computers can't do because the hardware is made up from all different sorts of manufacturers. In that sense, the whole iCult thing is beneficial to the consumer, but really, that's where the buck stops.

In my experience the biggest problem PC users have are really superficial stuff that you get used to after a little while. The "Close/Minimize" BUTTons are on the wrong side of the window! The minimized windows appear in a different toolbar than with a PC! I've seen so many anti-Mac PC users freak out about this little things and scream up and down about things that are simply a matter of getting used to. And then even a lot of longterm Mac users don't seem to realize that many of things you can do with a PC can be done with a Mac too (you can "right click" by holding down the "Ctrl" BUTTon; you can "Control-Alt-Delete" by hitting "Opt-Cmd-Esc"; you can get a screen shot with "Cmd-Shift-3" or "Cmd-Shift-4"). A lot of Mac users I know actually think those simple PC functions don't exist on Macs but usually its simply a matter of finding the 2 or 3 BUTTon command.

TRUTH, but it's a pain to learn that over again, just like it's SUCH a pain for you Mac guys to quietly run an antivirus program in the background or defragging, or optimizing the OS to run exactly the way you want it, and not necessarily the way the company who made the OS did. There's a lot of examples here just in Vista vs. OSX alone I won't get into, but disabling Vista's most annoying feature- user account controls- is a far simpler process for example than say, specifying a new docs folder or even connecting to a network on a Mac. It's just not worth the money or the hassle.

 

[AndrewTS]

Macs eventually DO slow down over time (because they need to be defragged just like PCs do, except there's no easy way to get to doing that in OSX like in Windows), get viruses, and crash all the damn time.

"Defragging", in the specific sense, defragging isn't really something you need to do routinely on a mac like a PC. You can use Disk Utility to check if you need to do a disk repair, though.

Failing that, when something goes wrong on a Mac, the solution is to spend money on it and hope it works, and if not, oh well! Buy a new one, since the next one will be coming out soon anyways. Macs run on a very typical modern consumer model in that they are basically made to only work as long as the product cycle will allow them to. PCs can be upgraded or fixed for free, if not on the cheap.

Applecare Protection Plans run 3 years, and they aren't fulfilled once you get a repair or even get a computer replaced. Yeah, it costs extra, but it's on par or better than most industry (and certainly retail) service plans.

Have you ever tried reformatting a hard drive on a Mac in case it's messed up, and re-installing the OS? Good luck with that. If a PC messes up, or I need to upgrade the OS, hard drive, anything, it can be done in, at most an hour.

I don't even know what you're talking about here. I haven't noticed any major differences, myself. However, the Archive and Install feature can resolve most OS issues without reformatting and installing.

The one great thing about Apple is that the store will take care of all your needs, tech support wise, which is something that Windows-based computers can't do because the hardware is made up from all different sorts of manufacturers. In that sense, the whole iCult thing is beneficial to the consumer, but really, that's where the buck stops.

Unless you don't have an Apple Store near you. Most people don't.

is a far simpler process for example than say, specifying a new docs folder or even connecting to a network on a Mac. It's just not worth the money or the hassle.

Again, I don't really understand what you're talking about here.

 

[BUTT]

EDIT: why does this stupid board capitalize the first four letters in b.u.t.t.o.n.?

*ahem*

 

[Thoth]

Vista defrags itself, btw.

 

[Vitamin X]

Jesus, Andrew works as tech support for Apple? You can tell.

Have you ever tried reformatting a hard drive on a Mac in case it's messed up, and re-installing the OS? Good luck with that. If a PC messes up, or I need to upgrade the OS, hard drive, anything, it can be done in, at most an hour.

I don't even know what you're talking about here.

It's simple, dude. I'm talking about the differences in the hardware if something goes wrong. Mac users are under this impression that PCs crash all the time, get viruses, and generally don't work when you need them to. The experience greatly varies from user to user, but generally speaking, Windows works. The only people for whom it doesn't are the same people who would have failures on a Mac. Neither OS is built to defend against user error.

I haven't noticed any major differences, myself. However, the Archive and Install feature can resolve most OS issues without reformatting and installing.

So can System Restore, and both of them work just about the same. Restore even does it automatically, as I'm sure Archive does as well.

is a far simpler process for example than say, specifying a new docs folder or even connecting to a network on a Mac. It's just not worth the money or the hassle.

Again, I don't really understand what you're talking about here.

I'm talking about the way that user profiles are set up on a Mac vs. Windows, as well as the hoops OSX makes you jump through for connecting to a network or remote location. I don't know how to rephrase that in any other way in order to meet your reading comprehension level.

 

[Just Burny]

I guess there isn't an option to throw the linux hat into the ring?

 

[AndrewTS]

Jesus, Andrew works as tech support for Apple? You can tell.

I never denied that. I take no joy in defending them or anything, but I'll be glad to share my opinions and experiences.

Neither OS is built to defend against user error.

That's hardly a complaint about the hardware as it is a complaint about the marketing. Thankfully with Macs, their users are less likely to be Typhoid Marys, spreading viruses around to other users, which can be problems that arise even when careful users interact with those sorts of PC users.

I for one found the early Mac commercials (and the early Mac Guy, PC Guy commercials) irritating at the least and horribly inaccurate at worst.

So can System Restore, and both of them work just about the same. Restore even does it automatically, as I'm sure Archive does as well.

Actually, no (archive and install is done manually using an install disc). If your whole PC system is boned to the point where it can't boot, even safe mode, then you're not using system restore anyway. The Mac equivalent to system restore is Time Machine, which requires either a separate partition or external hard drive, though. The downside is that it's less convenient/a bit of a pain in the ass, the upside is that your typical end user isn't going to try to be as reliant on the single internal drive, which of course could be boned with his general OS and all partitions. Plus, you can even use Time Machine to restore if your OS won't boot, as long as you can boot to your install disc.

I'm talking about the way that user profiles are set up on a Mac vs. Windows, as well as the hoops OSX makes you jump through for connecting to a network or remote location. I don't know how to rephrase that in any other way in order to meet your reading comprehension level.

What is "the way" user profiles work that make them harder, and what "hoops" do you jump through to connect to a network? To me, you're being vague and I don't know what specific complaints you have. However, "the way" user profiles are on a Mac makes issues commonly very easy to troubleshoot and resolve; narrow an issue down to user-profile error or system-wide file error, focus on those files and folders, and fix it. One of the most common mistakes that "switchers" make is trying to resolve an application issue by uninstalling and reinstalling an application, though (although, if more 3rd party mac software developers were smart enough to make uninstallers that removed all of the apps' supporting files and folders, that would actually work). Networking generally seems to be just as simple or difficult as on a PC. I'd rather that the ping utility was simpler to access, though. I actually prefer the Network Prefs pane to the way it's set up in a PC (which allows you to quickly compare/add/remove/edit network ports, scan for networks, etc).

 

[Frosty]

Thanks for all the help and healthy discussion guys. You have definitely helped me along my way. I'm leaning more towards a PC due to the price range I have and the familiarity I have with it already.

 

[Vitamin X]

Well that seemed all for naught. At least there's one less Mac in the end though, which was my goal. Also, I'll admit I didn't know about the archive/install thing, which sounds like it's just essentially a boot disc.

And yeah Burny Linux is an option I guess, but in the phrase of the original question, he seems to be leaning towards buying a computer with a pre-installed OS on it. Nothing wrong with installing a dual-boot on it, but in general the biggest problem I have with Linux- and this is going to apply especially to our pal Frosty here, considering he's interested in any sort of video/graphics editing- is that you can't get any good video editing software for Linux, and it takes a while to figure out the GIMP. After using Ubuntu for about a year or so, I never re-installed it when I got my new laptop since Vista boots up fast for me (pretty much the main reason I went to Linux in the first place, well that and I had 6GB of RAM and a 64-bit chip and I wanted to actually use what I paid for).