Make your case for the greatest outfielders of all time

[Dandy]

As a spinoff to Willie Mays being last on the GOAT (for all sports) poll and then bumped, I thought I would create this thread to not only showcase just how elite some of the outfielders were in MLB, but also just how difficult it is to choose which three would make your greatest outfield ever and who the greatest outfielder ever would be.

In this thread, I will list some of the greatest outfielders of all time; link to their stats on Baseball-Reference; and highlight some things about them that people may not realize. Make your case for each outfielder you put on your greatest of all time team. Make your case for the best ever. Just make your case. Don’t just list the names; elaborate on why you chose who you did.

As for the makeup of your outfield, you can make it position-specific or not. I don’t care.

—————

Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 714 HR (3rd), .342 BA (13th), 2214 RBI (2nd), OF/P, HOF in 1936, 1923 AL MVP, 2xAllStar, Yankees/RedSox/... 1914-1935, b:L/t:L, 12x HR Leader

www.baseball-reference.com

All those home runs (714). An all-time OPS of 206, the best ever. The stats are insane by themselves but considering what he was putting up versus the rest of the league is ridiculous. Though you cannot count his pitching stats toward being the best outfielder, it is fun to speculate what he could have put up had he been in the outfield the entire time rather than on the mound.

Hank Aaron

Henry Aaron Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 755 HR (2nd), .305 BA, 2297 RBI (1st), RF/1B, HOF in 1982, 1957 NL MVP, 25xAllStar, 3xGG, Braves/Brewers 1954-1976, b:R/t:R, 4x RBI Leader

www.baseball-reference.com

He beat Ruth’s HR record and did so by never hitting more than 47 in a season. All time RBI and total bases leader. 3,771 hits, which is third all-time and 141 ahead of 4th place/257 ahead of 5th.

Willie Mays

Willie Mays Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 660 HR (6th), .301 BA, 1909 RBI (12th), CF, HOF in 1979, 2xMVP, 1951 NL RoY, 24xAllStar, 12xGG, Giants/Mets/... 1948-1973, b:R/t:R, 4x HR Leader

www.baseball-reference.com

660 home runs and would have had more of not for military service. It is not out of the question that he could have gotten past Ruth’s 714 and seemed nearly a lock for 700 had he not lost the time. So many Gold Gloves in center; 338 stolen bases; and 3,283 hits.

Ted Williams

Ted Williams Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 521 HR (20th), .344 BA (11th), 1839 RBI (16th), LF, HOF in 1966, 2xMVP, 19xAllStar, RedSox 1939-1960, b:L/t:R, 9x SLG Leader, born in CA 1918, died 2002

www.baseball-reference.com

Even with missing nearly five seasons for military service, he hit 521 home runs. His absurd .482 OBP is the greatest ever. He hit .406 as a 22 year old and .388 at 38. He won two MVPs and finished second four times (arguably robbed in some) and seven top five finishes in years he did not win. His OPS+ of 191 was second to Ruth

Joe DiMaggio

Joe DiMaggio Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 361 HR (85th), .325 BA (48th), 1537 RBI (50th), CF, HOF in 1955, 3xMVP, 13xAllStar, Yankees 1936-1951, b:R/t:R, 2x RBI Leader, born in CA 1914, died 1999

www.baseball-reference.com

361 home runs versus 369 strikeouts. Ridiculous. He lost three years to military service and still won three MVPs with a couple of second place finishes peppered in.

Mickey Mantle

Mickey Mantle Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 536 HR (18th), .298 BA, 1509 RBI (56th), CF/1B, HOF in 1974, 3xMVP, 20xAllStar, GG, Yankees 1951-1968, b:B/t:R, 4x HR Leader, born in OK 1931, died 1995

www.baseball-reference.com

536 home runs as a switch hitter. Three MVPs and three times runner up. 172 OPS+.

Frank Robinson

Frank Robinson Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 586 HR (10th), .294 BA, 1812 RBI (22nd), OF/1B, HOF in 1982, 2xMVP, 1956 NL RoY, 14xAllStar, GG, Reds/Orioles/... 1956-1976, b:R/t:R

www.baseball-reference.com

The first MVP in two leagues. 586 home runs.

Ken Griffey Jr.

Ken Griffey Jr. Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 630 HR (7th), .284 BA, 1836 RBI (17th), CF, HOF in 2016, 1997 AL MVP, 13xAllStar, 10xGG, Mariners/Reds/... 1989-2010, b:L/t:L, 4x HR Leader

www.baseball-reference.com

In a career riddled with injuries, he hit 630 home runs and won nine Gold Gloves. Won an MVP and finished top five in four others.

Barry Bonds

Barry Bonds Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 762 HR (1st), .298 BA, 1996 RBI (6th), LF, 7xMVP, 14xAllStar, 8xGG, Giants/Pirates 1986-2007, b:L/t:L, 12x BB Leader, born in CA 1964

www.baseball-reference.com

First all time in home runs (762); walks (2,558; nearly 400 more than 2nd place). Even with all those walks, he nearly made it to the 3,000 hit club with 2,935. Seven MVPs and twice a runner up.

Rickey Henderson

Rickey Henderson Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 297 HR, .279 BA, 1406 SB (1st), LF, HOF in 2009, 1990 AL MVP, 10xAllStar, GG, Athletics/Yankees/... 1979-2003, b:R/t:L, 12x SB Leader

www.baseball-reference.com

First all-time in runs scored with 2,295 and over 400 more stolen bases than anyone else. Over 3,000 hits and nearly 300 home runs (297) from what was usually a lead off position.

Stan Musial

Stan Musial Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 475 HR (32nd), .331 BA (34th), 1951 RBI (8th), OF/1B, HOF in 1969, 3xMVP, 24xAllStar, Cardinals 1941-1963, b:L/t:L, 7x BA Leader, born in PA 1920, died 2013

www.baseball-reference.com

Three MVPs and four times runner up. Fourth all-time in hits at 3,630. Third in doubles and second in total bases while hitting 475 homers.

Ty Cobb

Ty Cobb Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 117 HR, .366 BA (1st), 1944 RBI (9th), CF, HOF in 1936, 1911 AL MVP, Tigers/Athletics 1905-1928, b:L/t:R, 11x BA Leader, born in GA 1886, died 1961

www.baseball-reference.com

Second in hits with 4,189. Highest batting average of all-time at .366. Near the top of the leaderboards for WAR; runs; singles; doubles; triples; and stolen bases.

Tris Speaker

Tris Speaker Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 117 HR, .345 BA (9th), 1531 RBI (51st), CF, HOF in 1937, 1912 AL MVP, Indians/RedSox/... 1907-1928, b:L/t:L, 8x 2B Leader, born in TX 1888, died 1958

www.baseball-reference.com

Doubles leader with 792. 3,512 hits and a .345 average. High on the WAR leaderboard.

Mel Ott

Mel Ott Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 511 HR (25th), .304 BA, 1860 RBI (13th), RF/3B, HOF in 1951, 12xAllStar, Giants 1926-1947, b:L/t:R, 6x HR Leader, born in LA 1909, died 1958

www.baseball-reference.com

511 home runs. More WAR than some of the more celebrated guys on this list.

Roberto Clemente

Roberto Clemente Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 240 HR, .317 BA (66th), 1305 RBI, RF, HOF in 1973, 1966 NL MVP, 15xAllStar, 12xGG, Pirates 1955-1972, b:R/t:R, 4x BA Leader, born in Puerto Rico. 1934, died 1972

www.baseball-reference.com

3,000 hits exactly. A howitzer of a right arm. 12 Gold Gloves and an MVP in a career cut short by his untimely death.

Al Kaline

Al Kaline Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 399 HR (58th), .297 BA, 1582 RBI (44th), RF/1B, HOF in 1980, 18xAllStar, 10xGG, Tigers 1953-1974, b:R/t:R, 1x BA Leader, born in MD 1934, died 2020

www.baseball-reference.com

Just over 3,000 hits (3,007) and a home run shy of 400. 10 Gold Gloves and was beaten out of an MVP a few times

Carl Yastrzemski

Carl Yastrzemski Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Career: 452 HR (40th), .285 BA, 1844 RBI (14th), LF/1B, HOF in 1989, 1967 AL MVP, 18xAllStar, 7xGG, RedSox 1961-1983, b:L/t:R, 3x BA Leader, born in NY 1939

www.baseball-reference.com

3,419 hits. 452 home runs. Seven Gold Gloves

—————

OF All-Time WAR

1. Barry Bonds 162.8
2. Babe Ruth 162.1
3. Willie Mays 156.2
4. Ty Cobb 151.0
5. Hank Aaron 143.1
6. Tris Speaker 134.3
7. Stan Musial 128.3
9. Ted Williams 121.9
10. Rickey Henderson 111.2
11. Mel Ott 110.7
12. Mickey Mantle 110.2
13. Frank Robinson 107.2
14. Carl Yastrzemski 96.4
15. Roberto Clemente 94.8
16. Al Kaline 92.8
17. Ken Griffey Jr. 83.8
18. Joe DiMaggio 79.1

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Gonna call this a placeholder post but I'm gonna try to come up with a 2nd or 3rd Tier Underrated GOAT list. It's also surprising just how many elite legends were outfielders too when you think about certain positional stigmas: Defensive Catchers, No Hit All Glove Shortstops, the rangy 2B Leadoff Slap Hitter, Power Clubbing 1B, etc.

 

[Hoff]

Obviously the only answer is KIRBY PUCKETT who would 100% have joined me in an egg burger were he still around.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Alrighty, here we go... Going GOAT was just too blah to me so I went in a different direction.

Harley's Top 3 Underrated Outfielders.
LF: Alfonso Soriano
Above-average fielder in range factor but never really got his due. One of the best power-hitting outfielders in baseball in the 2000s and criminally underappreciated because he didn't walk very much so he didn't get the buzz of say an Adam Dunn. Routinely was hitting 40+ Doubles, 35+ HRs, and stealing 35-40 bases a year. From 2002-2005 he stole 128 bases and was caught stealing just 24 times. His hitting kind of fell off at 33 but he was still capable of 30+ HR years 36 and 37 years old.

CF: Duke Snider
Very underrated as a hitter in the 1950s. Not a great fielder but serviceable enough. Probably close to 480 HR in his career if the Dodgers had stayed in Brooklyn rather than moving to Los Angeles. Had 5 straight seasons of 40+ HR with at least 77 walks. From 1953-1959 he had an OPS+ of 156 over that span.

RF: Tony Gwynn Sr.
Pretty much a pure Singles hitter but (like Ichiro with his power), I think Gwynn tailored his hitting style precisely to that. He could walk/work counts early in his career (50+ walks) if he had so desired. The fact he was striking out just 15-20 times in a given season at the heights of the 'Steroids Era' is super under-appreciated. Could steal 25-30+ bases if given the green light and he didn't gain so much weight. Was a league average RF in range factor but was still given 5 Gold Gloves. May not be underrated necessarily but from 1993-1997 he had a .368 BA over that run... Ichiro's best 6 year run had him hitting .335 for comparison whilst striking out way more.

 

[Dandy]

Snider just missed this list from a WAR standpoint. I had to cut it somewhere, and a number divisible by three seemed appropriate.

 

[Dandy]

Snider just missed this list from a WAR standpoint. I had to cut it somewhere, and a number divisible by three seemed appropriate.

Actually, Snider would have been much further down looking at the WAR list again. He was in no danger of making my list of options at 66.0 WAR.

 

[Dandy]

There were several higher WARs ahead of him. I am not taking anything away from him. He just didn’t make the cut.

Edit: @HarleyQuinn, while looking up stuff on Snider, I came across his 1956 season. He led the league in: WAR (7.6; tied with Mays); HR (43); BB (99); OBP (.399); SLG (.598); OPS (.997); OPS+ (155); and IBB (26). His other stats were good to great.

He finished 10th in the NL MVP race and 5th amongst his teammates.

 

[snuffbox]

Aaron/Mays/Mantle.

I think Aaron is the GOAT baseball player. He was so consistently good for so long, it's kind of hard to believe he was real. A good defender, a legendary bat, and, even with the racism and death threats getting worse after his team moved south, he somehow kept showing up and collecting important hits.

Mays wasn't as good a hitter as Aaron (even though he's an all time great in the category himself) but he was the greatest centerfielder to ever live. I'm a big fan of Lorenzo Cain and, imo, appreciating him helps illustrate how good the even better Willie Mays was.

And Mantle may have ended up even better than Mays in the outfield had he not wrecked his knee during DiMaggio's last season. Mickey Mantle should not have had a fraction of the stats he ended up with considering all his injuries. And yet, he did.

 

[treble]

Mays, Trout, Aaron.

I think I could swap out Aaron for about anyone in the first post and be OK with it, though.

Mike Trout might be the best baseball player who ever lived.

 

[Dandy]

I did not include Trout because he is still active and nothing more. He is only 5 WAR behind DiMaggio right now, and should theoretically pass him this season.

 

[alkeiper]

Bonds/Mays/Ruth

There's one big name missing: Oscar Charleston.

Seamheads has something like 80% of negro league stats compiled. Charleston played from 1915-41, a 27 year career. He's first all time in the recorded history of the leagues in doubles, triples, RBIs, stolen bases. (Emphasize. They have 1584 games for Charleston, 1475 for Bell. Charleston outstole Bell 367-345.) He's second in home runs behind Gibson. In Charleston's career he averaged 22 HRs and 46 SBs every 162 games. He played center field and was well regarded as a fielder though I take that with a grain of salt. And he was a team leader, he became the Pittsburgh Crawfords' player/manager and then managed the Philadelphia Stars.

Charleston was probably the best player to play in the leagues. Players like Monte Irvin, Larry Doby, Roy Campanella came out of the leagues and had Hall of Fame careers. I think Charleston at worst is probably in the top 25 all time. Bill James rated him fourth. That might be optimistic but it's not improbable.

Oscar Charleston - Seamheads Negro Leagues Database

www.seamheads.com

 

[snuffbox]

I thought of a few others (Yount) but forgot all about Charleston. My next 3, and I'd probably change my starting 3 if I were asked again next week, are Bonds, Ruth and DiMaggio. I don't think Cobb's reputation is historically accurate and, while his era is night/day to later ones, I think he'd figure out a way to start and be productive at any time. But he'd probably be a 'scrappy,' Cardinals type and I don't want that on my dream team.

Yelich might be in this conversation someday. I hope.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

The craziest thing about Ted Williams is that he put up those career numbers while being shifted upon starting in 1946 (the infamous "Ted Williams Shift" started by Boudreau). He also probably would've had around 640 HRs if he didn't miss 3 years for military service and essentially missed '52 and '53 completely due to injuries (122 PA total, still hit 14 HR).

"From that moment on, teams more or less shifted on Williams throughout the rest of his career. They did it so much that he once estimated it lopped about 15 points off of his lifetime batting average, and Williams’s intuition wasn’t far off: his career splits before and after that season showed a difference of 16 points. (Though other factors also surely contributed to that gap.)"

 

[snuffbox]

Blame that on Craig Counsell.

 

[alkeiper]

I thought of a few others (Yount) but forgot all about Charleston. My next 3, and I'd probably change my starting 3 if I were asked again next week, are Bonds, Ruth and DiMaggio. I don't think Cobb's reputation is historically accurate and, while his era is night/day to later ones, I think he'd figure out a way to start and be productive at any time. But he'd probably be a 'scrappy,' Cardinals type and I don't want that on my dream team.

Yelich might be in this conversation someday. I hope.

I think people see Cobb's stolen base numbers and view him as a leadoff hitter prototype. He only batted 1st 28 times in his career. 90% of his starts he batted third or fourth. He's fourth all time in doubles, 2nd in triples. These are power numbers. He's listed at 6'1", 175 lbs. So he's not a Johnny Evers deadball era size player either. That's the same size as Al Kaline and Billy Williams. Cobb was above average in terms of size. Modern Cobb would easily pop off 25 HRs a season.

 

[Dandy]

Also regarding Williams and the shift, he stubbornly said he would just hit into it rather than altering his swing. In my opinion (and many others) he is the greatest hitter of all time.

He got with Tony Gwynn to discuss hitting and convinced Gwynn to turn on the pitches on the inside of the plate instead of waiting on those outside pitches to slap the other way. Gwynn hit .394 with .568 slugging in ‘94 before the strike ended the season. I watched the interview with the two of them where they discussed this and the wild success Gwynn had with the advice.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I think people see Cobb's stolen base numbers and view him as a leadoff hitter prototype. He only batted 1st 28 times in his career. 90% of his starts he batted third or fourth. He's fourth all time in doubles, 2nd in triples. These are power numbers. He's listed at 6'1", 175 lbs. So he's not a Johnny Evers deadball era size player either. That's the same size as Al Kaline and Billy Williams. Cobb was above average in terms of size. Modern Cobb would easily pop off 25 HRs a season.

It's also worth noting that Navin Field had a 345' LF, 365' LCF, 467' CF, 370' RCF, and 370' RF for the majority of Cobb's career. He easily could've hit 20-30 HR a year in the late 1930s when CF was moved in to 440' and RF was moved in 315' to 325' range.

Bill James talks a lot about park factors but a lot of the rise in 1930s-1940s HRs were thanks to dramatic ballpark changes especially in moving fences in closer to the field.

"Before the start of the 1940 season, the right-field wall was moved in 20 feet shortening the outfield fence from 325 to 302 feet in right field and 402 to 380 feet in right-center field. Bullpens for the Red Sox and the visiting team were placed in the area created between the stands and the outfield wall, replacing the original ones in foul territory." That was just for Fenway Park nevermind the other ballpark stadiums.

 

[alkeiper]

Check out Cleveland hitters in the late 30s and '40s, since they were splitting use of League Park and Cleveland Stadium during the season.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Check out Cleveland hitters in the late 30s and '40s, since they were splitting use of League Park and Cleveland Stadium during the season.

Definitely. Hal Trosky 49 HR at "home" in 1935/1936 compared to 19 HR on the road in just those 2 seasons. It's one of the reasons that I don't think fans realize how much the Seattle Kingdome helped Ken Griffey Jr (362' RCF, 312' down the line) compared to if he had hit in a Safeco-style ballpark for the majority of his career.

Even Mile High Stadium was much more favorable to RHB (333' down the line, '366 in the power alley) compared to Coors Field which is 347' and 390' for comparison. They did make Coors Field more advantageous to LHB (CF moved in by 7', RCF by 25', and line by 20') but at the expense of making it tougher on RHB.

It's always kind of baffled me how the Colorado Rockies management seems to want to make their ballclub as pitcher-friendly as possible, rather than just leaning into giving themselves a greater home-field advantage in the power game. It'd be like the Yankees getting Babe Ruth and pushing the fences out further or the Red Sox deciding, "Hey. We have Jimmie Foxx & Ted Williams. Let's keep the fences deep and move the Green Monster back 30 feet too while we're at it."

 

[alkeiper]

Even within the home splits. The 1940 Indians had an .861 OPS at League Park, .633 at Cleveland Stadium.