Oh, for the love of god... DC does it again

[HarleyQuinn]

Going through old Batman comics and it really start getting interesting around 1961 - 1963. There's a TON of Science Fiction themed stories going on (IIRC this also carried over more explicitly to Marvel with stuff like Amazing Stories? and independent stuff) but by 1963 you also start to see the inclusions of multi-part stories including Batman's New Identity in November, 1962; Prisoners of Three Worlds in February, 1963 (a 3 Part Story!), and Robin Dies At Dawn in June, 1963. The cover of the latter story also encapsulates the style/changing tone of the stories too.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I just discovered the Batgirl/Supergirl comics by Mike Maihack and they are adorable as all get out!

https://www.deviantart.com/mikemaihack/gallery/

 

[HarleyQuinn]

In catching up on older stuff I finished the Batgirl: Year One Deluxe Edition and loved it a ton. Great stuff! Big fan of Batgirl's origin, the use of Killer Moth/Firefly as villains, and the growth of Barbara Gordon as a character just throughout the story.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

so has anyone been reading the Doomsday Clock stuff or DC in general since like late 2017/early 2018? I've read all the BatmanFamily/Superman/JL/WonderWoman/GL/Titans related titles up to Clock it looks like. I've read some of the other stuff but not as far along, and was going to just read Doomsday Clock but then I saw it isn't even finished 2 years later because of delays.

So how much does this effect things? Are the events in Clock seriously impacting the rest of continuity right now? Is there a lot of point in reading the other stuff or can I just skip it because it's mostly going to be tossed out.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Can't say anything to that but I've started up Saga of the Swamp Thing from 1982 knowing very little about the character except the movie. I'd heard about Alan Moore's run on it but didn't realize it started with Martin Pasko as the writer and Moore only came in at Issue 20.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

https://twitter.com/dpalm66/status/1161754552145731584

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Knocked out Harleen by Stjepan Šejić and it was fantastic stuff. It's a variation origin story for Harley based on the origins of Mad Love, essentially spotlighting the Harley as doctor with Joker at Arkham scenes. Really worth the read and the artwork is great too. Highest recommendation.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365478515198451712

 

[Baby Shoes]

Recently just read The Last Knight on Earth. I had seen some of the McFarlane figures for them and they looked really cool with some of the character designs.

It was okay, I felt. I thought the concept was good but wasn’t overly attached. I did breeze through the entire collected trade in one sitting. Curious if anyone else checked this one out.

 

[Epic Springs]

So they made Superman gay (well, Bi) and the internet, including some people I know are going crazy and saying that "woke" culture is ruining everything. A DC colorist has even threatened to quit over this.

Bigots, man.

 

[Dandy]

I’m torn on things like that. I cannot stand major changes to a character because it messes up the history and continuity. I wouldn’t bat an eye at a new character being bisexual or gay. Or reveal that a relatively new character was bisexual or gay. But Batman and Superman being around since the late 30s makes me hate changes like that.

And here is where I am torn, I fully understand the characters as I know them are not the same as they were when they started and retcons and changes have happened many times. The character I am so attached to is not even the modern interpretation of the character but the one from when I actively followed the comics they were in.

I guess my biggest complaint with it is “what does it gain for the character?” but at the same time, I understand and embrace what it means for those individuals that may want to come out in the future when they can say, “Superman did it.”

I’m just torn. Call me a bigot.

 

[Youth N Asia]

It’s not even Superman, right? The son of Superman? I don’t keep up with who’s who anymore.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I somehow missed this for last year's XMas so call it a pre-emptive XMas/Happy New Year post celebration

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I’m torn on things like that. I cannot stand major changes to a character because it messes up the history and continuity. I wouldn’t bat an eye at a new character being bisexual or gay. Or reveal that a relatively new character was bisexual or gay. But Batman and Superman being around since the late 30s makes me hate changes like that.

And here is where I am torn, I fully understand the characters as I know them are not the same as they were when they started and retcons and changes have happened many times. The character I am so attached to is not even the modern interpretation of the character but the one from when I actively followed the comics they were in.

I guess my biggest complaint with it is “what does it gain for the character?” but at the same time, I understand and embrace what it means for those individuals that may want to come out in the future when they can say, “Superman did it.”

I’m just torn. Call me a bigot.

Jonathan Kent, for all intents and purposes, is a new character. They're doing a story arc where Kal-El has to leave Earth, and Jon has taken over as Superman.

Also, I find myself frequently getting annoyed, when people says things like, "I don't mind when they have characters who are [insert marginalized minority group here], as long as they're new characters." Because what they often (maybe not "always," but very often) mean is that they don't mind, as long as those characters can be shoved into the corner, in a comic that they weren't going to read, in the first place, and they don't have to see it.

 

[tekcop]

Like YNA said, it's Jon Kent Superman. So who cares.

Also, Superman was always gay.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451280672782438405

 

[Dandy]

See, I knew nothing about it not being Clark Kent because I read no stories on it. I had no clue it was Jonathan Kent.

And @Mr. S£im Citrus , I respect your stance but that ain’t me. When I say “I don’t mind if it is a new character,” it is because I have near crippling OCD on the dumbest things and retcons instantly make me not want to follow any further. A ridiculously large percentage of my close friends are gay and I devote quite a bit of personal time to support them and try to change bigoted opinions by example and by education. My church went through a split equivalent to the worst divorce because half of us would not tolerate the hateful stance toward homosexuals and bisexuals and basically any human being. One of the youths that is now an adult and is in the seminary is transitioning and I have been a huge support system for her.

So when I said what I said, you can get annoyed at what you think I meant. But I was not okay if it was a character that be shoved into the corner. I just didn’t see what was gained for the character of Clark Kent that has been around since 1938 to suddenly be bisexual. And I had zero knowledge that it wasn’t Clark Kent because every headline and every report has merely said, “Superman is Now Bisexual.” There was no explanation that it was not Clark Kent.

So 100 points of to me for not reading any of the articles, but my post above has been my only reaction in written or verbal form. And I stand by it. If they suddenly wanted to make my favorite character Bruce Wayne/Batman have Facioscapulohumeral Muscular Dystrophy, a disease that I suffer from and am at least the fourth generation of such in my family with my undiagnosed small children still to follow, I would not like it just as much. It has nothing to do with my views and everything to do with it drastically changing the history of a character I grew up on.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451280672782438405

Let's see where it is after 5 or 6 issues. I'm not surprised it sold huge because this came across like a stunt which is more my complaint. I'm totally in favour of my LGBQT in media and comics in particular needs more. However I found the way this was announced to come off kind of hollow. "The new Superman is Bi, he protests, and he's worried about the environment!". It just comes across as a very corporate attempt to appeal to people.

Superman could solve climate change in about 15 minutes tops.

DC acquired Apollo and Midnighter in the Wildstorm deal. They are two popular and (before DC) wellwritten gay characters. They've been poorly used and almost nonexistent.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

By what metric did you conclude that this "came across like a stunt"?

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

The way it is being marketed. The press releases. The fact it was announced on National Coming Out Day. I thought I covered most of it in my first post really. Both DC and Marvel have done this many times in the past so I am extremely sceptical about them. I would love to believe they are making a genuine effort here. But the entire history of how they have treated LGBTQ characters disagrees with that.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

As opposed to what? Deliberately delaying the rollout/announcement, out of fear of being perceived as a stunt? What is the disconnect here? From my point of view, it sounds like your position is "Promoting a character = stunt." What am I missing?

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

...They deliberately timed the whole thing is what I am saying. This is something the companies do all the time. If this was the first time DC (or Marvel) had hyped a character (new or otherwise) with a big press release and timed it for maximum effect I wouldn't be saying anything. But it isn't. They've done this or some combo plenty of times.

If people enjoy the character I think that's great. I hope he is successful. I hope DC is commited to it. I'm just going by past history.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

It took DC roughly 20-25 years just to finally make the subtext of Harley/Ivy "canon" and they are still fighting stuff like letting Batman have oral sex on Catwoman in the new season of Harley Quinn's show. As CWM said, DC has a long history of pulling shit like this especially in relation to LGBTQ characters/arcs in that it never just happens for the sake of the stories. There have to be press releases, touting how progressive they are being on social media, timing releases, etc. It shouldn't be that way but it is pretty easy to see this as a stunt.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

Not letting Batwoman get married was a huge thing as well.

 

[Epic Springs]

I should also mention that people are just as pissed about Superman's catchphrase being changed from "Truth, Justice and the American Way" to "Truth, Justice and a Better Tomorrow".

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

They've changed his catchphrase multiple times and moved away from "the American way" more than a year ago IIRC.

 

[King Kamala]

Featuring Marc Maron as Lex Luthor, @Valeyard !

They're scraping the bottom of the barrel with comic book properties, huh?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'll bet you twenty bucks that movie is better than ZSJL.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Yet another combo property movie drops tomorrow on Cartoon Network with Teen Titans Go! & DC Super Hero Girls: Mayhem in the Multiverse​

I liked the other TT Go!/TT movie well enough so I'm looking forward to this one.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

never seen any of the super hero girl stuff and i'm at least a season or two behind on teen titans go but the animated movies DC does are generally at least ok. Although the quality has dropped majorly from the glory days.

I've read some DC comics here and there in the last few years, mostly Batman/Batfamily, JL, Titans, Suicide Squad, etc and they've generally been bad to ok at best. The Batman stuff being the best but even that got bad. "Heroes' in Crisis" is infamously bad and I won't spoil it but look it up for a laugh. Some serious character assassination.