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Old School Observations/Questions Thread 2020-21

snuffbox

Integral Poster
Maybe I'm seeing a different video but it sure looked like cooperative choreography to me...and it looked like it entertained the audience. Of course, I've already said at least a few times how the idea that flips, high spots, gimmicks, masks, yadda yadda are at all new/recent is not really correct.
 

HarleyQuinn

Laugh This Off... Puddin'!
Staff member
Interesting how some fans take the "exposes the business" comment to mean "fast-paced sequences" instead of the "obviously cooperating" thing it's supposed to mean.

Regardless, though, the indie applause stance works when it's done after a genuinely good sequence.
Part of the issue is that the "sequence" is usually like 4-6 specific moves sprinkled with maybe a particular wrestler's move.

Irish Whip - Shoulder Block - Run Over Dropped Opponent - Duck Under Leafrog - Dodge "Big Move" maybe via Cartwheel/Handspring - Put Opponent on Ground (Dropkick/Wheel Kick/Clothesline/etc.) - Legdrop Misses via Situp/"Sidekick" Misses via Dodge - Kip Up - Dropkick - Lateral Fall gets 1 - Stand Up and "Bare Knuckle" Pose

RVD/Lynn do a variation here from 5:10-5:35 but it never feels like they are close to connecting on any of the moves themselves so it all seems showy.

 

strummer

Integral Poster
Brady Boone got a very brief, small push in late 87/early 88. He and Billy Jerk formed a team and were "cousins". They even got a match against Demolition on Prime .Time. This was very un-WWF like obviously to feature a guy Boone's size even if is was only a modest push at best. Then Haynes left and Boone got injured. By the time he returned he was a complete jobber again. I doubt the push was going anywhere and he probably would have remained exclusively on Prime Time (getting syndie time meant you were a featured star) but interesting "push" for that time period.
 

Dandy

Posts: 3,237
Wikipedia says Boone teamed with Scott Casey against Demolition and was saved from the post-match beat down by Haynes and then Ken Patera who were also beaten down. The only thing about tagging with Haynes was pre-WWE.
So is Wikipedia wrong on this or was this a Mandela Effect thing by you? I am not giving you any grief whatsoever, just curious. I remembered Brady Boone but remembered him even more as Battle Kat. I seem to remember an association with Haynes but it very well could have been reading up on him years ago.

Fake Edit: Also, there is a decent chance that Dean Peters aka Brady Boone faked his death in order to undergo an super-secret experimental growth program and came back as Joe Manganiello.

 

King Kamala Holidays

Integral Poster

Dandy

Posts: 3,237
Well I was hoping it was that way or better. Wikipedia is often wrong or could gloss over such a trivial thing given its nature. I was legitimately asking, Big Bully Kamala.
 

snuffbox

Integral Poster
I think all of the above might be correct. Along with saving Boone, I think there were plans for a Haynes and (I think) Patera vs Demolition series. I think the injuries stalled that and Demolition's push was accelerated.
 

strummer

Integral Poster
I guess I forgot that Patera was involved. But I knew Haynes was somehow involved.

So I think the tv match was Boone and Patera v Demos.

When Boone got hurt and .Haynes left I think JYD briefly teamed with Patera against the Demos in early 88.

And of course all of this was forgotten when the .Demos monster push began
 

Valeyard

Burn
Not many things sadder than the Patera comeback.

Battlekat would've gotten over. Merch is right there and Boone worked a unique style. Hogan needed a little brother.
 

King Kamala Holidays

Integral Poster
A mask would've at least made him look less like a lesbian gym teacher.

It's weird that WWF had high hopes that Ken Patera could come back from prison during the peak of the Hulkamania era and be the #2 or #3 babyface. It's just bizarre. Prison subplot is just entirely too edgy and real for 1987 WWF. Reverse with him being an ex-con feeling enraged and wronged by society would probably be too much for that era.
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
A mask would've at least made him look less like a lesbian gym teacher.

It's weird that WWF had high hopes that Ken Patera could come back from prison during the peak of the Hulkamania era and be the #2 or #3 babyface. It's just bizarre. Prison subplot is just entirely too edgy and real for 1987 WWF. Reverse with him being an ex-con feeling enraged and wronged by society would probably be too much for that era.
As has been covered before, post WM 3 the WWF had a sudden shortage of uppercard babyfaces as Steamboat was planning an exit, Jake was hurt/drug rehabbed, JYD was fired/drugged out, Duggan was fired in May, etc. So Patera was needed. Had he not hurt his arm, he may have gotten over by the sheer will of Magic Hulk Dust over time(?) but getting hurt, and being sort of a lackluster babyface sunk him.
I do dig the idea of Heenan bringing Saito and Patera in from prison and having them maul Hogan in order to give Hulk some fresh meat to conquer.
 

King Kamala Holidays

Integral Poster
It's weird that in the height of the wrestling boom that WWF let the babyface side get so depleted that their options for a few months were Patera, insane weirdo BJH, and geriatric Bruno Sammartino. They couldn't bring in Bam Bam Bigelow or turn Savage face quickly enough honestly.

Also I'm going to get accused of buttering up @BruiserBrody again but they really could have used Hillbilly Jim better after 1986. I'm not saying he was good but he was charismatic and easy going enough that he could have been a solid fill in #3 or #4 babyface.
 
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Valeyard

Burn
Brutus could've had a lot more to do after his face turn, really. Push would've made sense, too. Tito and Koko wouldn't be out of place during that gap in '87 either. Just leave Orndorff and Muraco in peace.

If Patera had been all "The only person who kept in touch with me was my manager Bobby Heenan! Not the people!" and heeled it I'd have no problem. Third string Family Member would open up when Bundy goes anyway and you can turn Hercules.
 

Super Leather

Integral Poster
Ken Patera's comeback was such a letdown. He looked like a total badass in photos and in the old Coliseum Video intro where he's doing the swinging full nelson on Tito Santana. What we got was instead was an unmotivated, broken-down shell of his former self with his natural hair color. Pretty obvious even then that he was filling space for a steady paycheck.

I didn't really notice at the time because I was a little kid and any wrestling on TV was good enough for me, but the WWF really didn't have much of a babyface roster for a good bit in 1987. Patera and Superstar Billy Graham were both washed up. Billy Jack Haynes was batshit crazy. Don Muraco was past his prime and juiced to the gills. Black Jack Mulligan didn't get over. They gave up on Koko B. Ware and relegated him to undersized JTTS status quickly. Hillbilly Jim went nowhere and was terrible in the ring. I'm guessing that the WWF cut bait with Outback Jack well before WM3. Apparently Mike Rotundo was still on the roster in 1987, but he wasn't going to light up the babyface side without help. Did anyone want to see Chief Jay Strongbow and Ivan Putski in 1987? Brutus Beefcake was a brand new babyface who had yet to get over. Davey Boy Smith, Tito Santana, Rick Martel, and Jim Brunzell were all great and could have been plugged in anywhere, but tag team wrestlers rarely worked singles unless it was an angle with another team.
 

alkeiper

Welcoming our new insect overlords
Outback Jack actually wrestled in the WWF into May of 1988! Jim Duggan would’ve filled out the babyface roster but he was caught with drugs and got axed. Jake Roberts and Brutus Beefcake were newly turned babyfaces. Santana actually was a single but turned to a tag team to replace Tom Zenk. I think between Steamboat wanting time off, Piper retiring and Graham needing hip surgery immediately upon returning the fed just had a string of bad luck.
 

alkeiper

Welcoming our new insect overlords

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
Snuka was in and out of the AWA between 1986-1988. I'm not sure he even made it into 88. I think between the drugs, no shows and age, the WWF was good with letting him idle. Not sure why Vince brought him back in 89, although he was still "over" for his role (Maybe? I guess? I was brain washed by WWF faking the crowd audio all those years so maybe he was DOA too. He did get a C-show run with Honky that was meant to headline or co-headline, complete with an angle on TV that I don't have any recollection of seeing at the time.

Sarge was barely working by 1987. He wanted something like 3500 a shot and even Verne wasn't touching him for that. He and Don Kernoodle had a package deal for spot show indies. Sarge was the GI Joe and Kernoodle worked under a hood as a Russian.
Sarge and Hasbro ended up at odds in later 87/88 due to his lack of appearances as they were paying him to be a brand ambassador, not to sit at home and collect royalties. I think that was when Sarge then went back to Verne and started doing ESPN squashes again.

To compare Sarge's asking price with realistic numbers, Barry Windham was asking for something like 300-400 a shot in 1986 when he was in between WWF/Florida/Crockett. With a lower rate if you booked him for a loop of shots for the week.
 

strummer

Integral Poster
I was just watching a Challenge from late 86 and Gorilla is already putting the "he just likes to have fun" stench on Koko and is putting over Frankie just as much as Koko which was complete wwf speak for "don't take this guy seriously" and he's going to lose to anyone who had any semblance of a push. Looking back they didn't even try with Koko. I know he was way small by fed standards but they could have done more.
 

King Kamala Holidays

Integral Poster
Not sure why Vince brought him back in 89, although he was still "over" for his role (Maybe? I guess? I was brain washed by WWF faking the crowd audio all those years so maybe he was DOA too. He did get a C-show run with Honky that was meant to headline or co-headline, complete with an angle on TV that I don't have any recollection of seeing at the time.
Snuka-Honky was a post WrestleMania V C show main event (and looking at Cawthon's page, A show semi-main event beneath Hogan-Savage rematches) and John McAdam or someone in his Facebook group recently told me that it did OK numbers in the Northeast. I randomly semi-recently rewatched some '89 Prime Times and would it surprise you at all if I told you that the feud was based around HTM El Kabonging Superfly on the set of the Brother Love Show?

That was pretty much only major feud he went over in during his '89-'92 WWF run. He was more or less a glorified JTTS afterward.

I have no idea why Jimmy Snuka came back anytime except first and foremost, he probably needed the money and 2nd, it's probably a case of "Well, we will try to get people to ignore the fact that you killed somebody so everyone can ignore the fact that we helped cover it up."
 

strummer

Integral Poster
As for Hillbilly he was about to get a huge push in late 84/early 85 as Hogan's best friend. Then he got hurt. Knowing Vince that probably was the reason they never went back to him in any real meaningful role.

In fact Hillbilly was supposed to have a match at Mania 1 had he not gotten hurt. I think it was going to be against Beefcake
 

BruiserBrody

Integral Poster
All obvious jokes aside, Hogan and Koko would've been a really fun team for a while. I can hear Hogan talking about hangin' and bangin' with Frankie, brother.

Same night as Honky winning the IC title was taped IIRC.

----
Checked my notes for 1989 Snuka stuff but I didn't type anything down as relevant. But a fun note from June 1987 says
The rumor mill continues to churn about the potential merger between the AWA and the CWA in Memphis, as they’re supposed to working together along with Continental and Central States. It’s supposed to produce a more “entertainment oriented” version of a wrestling show, with Curt Hennig and Jimmy Snuka as top stars doing scripted TV. Dave’s mind boggles at Jimmy Snuka reading lines. (And yet here we are today.) They’re making big money offers to Ric Flair and the Road Warriors, but Dave doesn’t think this trainwreck is going anywhere.
One idea that popped in my head was that perhaps George Scott made a bid for Snuka (since he was one of his Mid Atlantic and Tri State (southern) territory guys when he was booking them. Vince may have brought in Snuka as a FU to the NWA.
 
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