Old School Observations/Questions Thread 2020

Laz

0101100101
I remember when Jose Perez and Vertebreaker were the standout NE indie guys. Sad thing is that Perez was actually a hell of a brawler and I wish he'd gotten more exposure before retiring.
 

Laz

0101100101
I am from New England and I am 90% sure @Laz made up those names.
Nope.

Vertebreaker was an indie standout in 1998/1999, mostly because he looked like an emaciated Sting and worked like a backyard RVD. He pre-dates the Shane Helms finish by a couple of years and used the slogan "Verte 8:40 - Twice as High," sticking out by being one of a handful of NE indie workers to actually incorporate highspots regularly into his matches. 12 year old Laz loved him when he popped up on the few shows that made it to my hometown's public access channel. I can't find any info about him on Cagematch, but I know he worked shows for the Providence-based Unified Championship Wrestling promotion during its brief existence. I wish I hadn't thrown away my old PWI copies!!

Jose Perez also worked as El Diablo and El Boricqua (not to be confused with another NE indie worker of the same name who popped up around 2002 and teamed regularly with Mercedes Martinez). He was a regular in southern Mass and RI, and still pops up for the XWA company out of West Warwick (a feeder to ROH that broke TK O'Ryan, Vinny Marseglia, and Matt Taven) as an authority figure. His best stuff was in the late 90s/early 00s when everybody was "hardcore" and "extreme," because he was able to mix some good brawling skills with some above-average chain wrestling. Don't know why he never ventured out of the region but I wish he had.
 
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Pro Wrestling Iron had a show with Modest and Donovan Morgan against Scorpio and someone I forget. Scorpio blew them off, and they got Juvi to come in. Big deal for a small town.

Doesn't hold up to the indy show I saw as a kid with Earthquake Ferris and "Mr. Outrageous" Al Burke.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
That all predates my time following indy wrestling (I started going to shows in Summer of '01) but I think even then wrestlers didn't always travel that far so a lot of MA/RI indy guys DIDN'T make it up to Maine.

And it doesn't help that Maine indy wrestling had a VERY MIXED reputation before Limitless started five years ago.

Top guys in my local indy when I was following in '01/'02 were Adam Booker, who semi-recently returned to wrestling and is on current season of Limitless' weekly show on IWTV, Dr. Heresy (surprised to find out he's also semi-active on smaller New England indies), and Brian Black. Black would go on to become UPN Executive Palmer Cannon. He was a Brock Lesnar knockoff on the indies lol.

Also teenage Kenny Dykstra, a not much older than a teenager Johnny Curtis, and John Walters doing his best Chris Benoit impression on the undercard.
 

Laz

0101100101
Dr. Heresy deserved a greater platform. He would've made a solid manager for early ROH.

...that's it. I'm going to fantasy book NE indies from 1999-2003 now. Probably a shoo-in to have Sheldon Goldberg as promoter, but booking may have to be Mike "Phoenix" Antonucci (XWA) instead of Bob Evans.
 
Change in subject but I might like the Fantastics as much if not more than the Rock n Roll Express. No real argument to be made beyond Fulton or Rogers not having a googly eye, I guess.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
Yeah. I remember enjoying Dr. Heresy a lot. And he DOES seem like he would have been a great fit as manager or heel comedy undercard wrestler in early ROH or TNA.
 

Baby Shoes

Baby Shoes
Unlike Brock, where you knew he was going to get pushed out the gates, Angle seemed more organic. Debut against Stasiak and his early matchups were in that Jeans Bulldog, Steve Blackman, Val Venis spot but he was undeniably getting over where he mixed it up with the respected midcard of Benoit and Jericho before popping into the main event in the summer.

I still love his rise to the top and find it much more impressive than Brock’s.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
Angle’s rise felt more organic and natural than Brock’s. From the moment he debuted the night after WrestleMania X-8, there was never a moment in doubt that Brock would become a top guy. While he definitely deserved the meteoric ascendency, it also felt kind of forced at times if that makes sense?
 
A big part of that is Angle got better and better before our eyes and Brock just showed up as a monster. With Angle it was the journey, with Brock it was the destination. It's like Bret and Yokozuna, to use a fairly extreme example. One guy develops organically and gets better and better, the other is a monster of destiny.
 

Baby Shoes

Baby Shoes
Damn, a lot of cheese and junk I can be down with but the fact that @King Kamala thinks I would enjoy 2003 Lawler-JR commentary makes me think I need to change my ways. I don’t even like peak JR-King commentary the way most do, let alone the Old Coot Variety Hour
 

Brocklock

Integral Poster
I would take Old Coot Variety Hour over how overproduced and bland everything has been since Michael Cole took over as lead announcer in 2008 or 2009. It's a fascinating yet terrifying look into Boomer ethos. But then again Cole, King, and JBL talking about AJ Lee's bipolar is as tasteless as Lawler's commentary during a 2003 divas match. WWE announcing has been bad for a very long time.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
Damn, a lot of cheese and junk I can be down with but the fact that @King Kamala thinks I would enjoy 2003 Lawler-JR commentary makes me think I need to change my ways. I don’t even like peak JR-King commentary the way most do, let alone the Old Coot Variety Hour
For some reason, I thought you dug Grandpas making forced pop culture references. My apologies.


OBVIOUSLY, VINCE WENT THE ABSOLUTE WORST WAY ABOUT DOING IT but can we all agree that Vince McMahon had the right idea to start phasing out Jim Ross in 2003? Everything after that, is diminishing returns at best and embarrassing at worst. 2002 stands out as his last good year.

At risk of being #canceled for being ageist, I feel like Gordon Solie and Gorilla Monsoon started getting phased off TV in their fifties too. No one wants grumpy grandpas calling wrestling. Although given how old wrestling demographics have gotten in past few years, maybe grandpas would be up in arms if JR got pulled off Dynamite.
 
That lucha match had the least heat I've ever heard. No one even pretended. Vince even has his "I told you this was a stupid idea," voice.
 
I truly forget what a boring match that is when I go back to the show. The logic of getting Juvi's dad kills me. But they really tried to put Hector Garza over, just like everywhere he went.
 

King Kamala

Integral Poster
I was today years old when I realized Cyndi Lauper sings backup vocals on “Real American “ I was listening to it tonight and I was like “the female backing vocals sound kind of like Cyndi Lauper” then realized she did other stuff on The Wrestling Album and sure enough, it was Cyndi Lauper.
 
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