Old School Observations/Questions Thread 2020-21

[snuffbox]

With Hercules explained, were there any reasons for leaving so many workers off Summerslam? I (think) I heard that Tugboat's push with Hogan went to his head and he was written out with an injury. I assume Martel had a legit injury. But that leaves at least 10 off the ppv, and Boss Man and Bravo were there but no matches. With Michaels hurt, that tag team match became a quickie handicap, the Sherri-Sapphire match didn't happen, and then Savage-Dusty went fast to do the DiBiase angle. Booking 2-3 matches with the unused talent would've probably helped that show.

 

[strummer]

Yeah Martel was hurt.

Savage was hurt as well. Which is why the Dusty match was so short (believe Savage had nerve damage in his arm/hand)

 

[snuffbox]

Bushwhackers vs Rhythm & Blues needed a blowoff. And giving the heels the win would've made it less silly when they were the Harts' contenders for the tag titles afterward.

They had started the Heenan/Boss Man's mama thing by then. So, instead of having him be a guest ref and cornerman, have a match with Haku. Put Andre in Hogan's corner while Tugboat was in the time out chair.

Barbarian vs Koko B Ware and Akeem vs Shane Douglas could round things out.

 

[Aero]

In the 95 Rumble, was the main reason for using the 60 second intervals due to the major lack of star power? It certainly helps mask what has to be the worst Rumble lineup, but if they just had everyone in the undercard do double duty (not unprecedented at this point), the lineup wouldn't have been any worse than the two previous years, if not better.

Edit:
Also, random thought, since I have this on right now: I'm always shocked Rick Martel is still on the roster, whenever I watch this.

 

[alkeiper]

This is just speculation, but I imagine booking Shawn and Bulldog to go coast-to-coast had a lot to do with it.

 

[King Kamala]

I have also heard it was to make up how thin the roster was. Martel wasn’t on the roster at the time. He was just helping fill out the match.

It is kind of depressing how much filler was in those mid-late ‘90s Rumbles.

 

[SFH]

"Squat Team" - they couldn't have come up with better WWE names for the one offs? And if Bulldog was prone to getting gassed, I understand the escalated intervals as an adult. As a kid I hated it.

 

[Valeyard]

They totally misused Owen and Backlund in the Rumble. Storyline-wise I completely get it but that match needed them so much.

That WM submission match should've been the final blowoff for Bret and Owen, dammit. No Backlunds.

 

[Laz]

Also, random thought, since I have this on right now: I'm always shocked Rick Martel is still on the roster, whenever I watch this.

What's even more random is that Rick Martel, barring the career ending back injury, would've had a major renaissance in 1998 WCW, where he was in contention for the TV title with Benoit, Booker, Finlay, and Saturn.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

In the 95 Rumble, was the main reason for using the 60 second intervals due to the major lack of star power? It certainly helps mask what has to be the worst Rumble lineup, but if they just had everyone in the undercard do double duty (not unprecedented at this point), the lineup wouldn't have been any worse than the two previous years, if not better.

Edit:
Also, random thought, since I have this on right now: I'm always shocked Rick Martel is still on the roster, whenever I watch this.

I believe Pritchard said that matches ran long so they ended up just shortening the time intervals from 90 seconds to 60 seconds. The pre-Rumble matches all went roughly 1 Hour, 10 Minutes not including entrances, post-match antics, between match interviews, etc.

IIRC by then they were still trying to complete PPV Events by the 2 or 2 & 1/2 Hour mark so that would make more sense.

 

[King Kamala]

I didn't know until the STWW on Rick Martel a few months back how successful Martel was in his second career as a real estate agent in the early-mid '90s. I feel like if he didn't do that part time, he would have had a semi-prominent role in the New Generation. Not main event level but maybe like B show main event/consistent IC Title level. He could've and maybe should have had the role IRS had in '93 to '95. Imagine The Model feuding with The Undertaker.

 

[BruiserBrody]

My buddies and I watched the SNME after WM 6 yesterday after work. I've seen it a bunch of course (including the night it aired), but it's been a while.

Hogan cuts 3 promos. One is the standard punny SNME intro. Then before he wrestles Mr. Perfect, Hogan does a damage control promo about his Mania loss and why his fans still back him. He didn't even end it with the "WHATCHA GUNNA DO!" His post match promo was then focused on Quake.
Hogan's posing routine post match seemed extra long, which may have been even more damage control for his character.

- Quake squashes Hillbilly Jim in under 2 mins or so, giving Jim most of the match before Jimmy Hart distracted Jim and allowed Quake to smash him with 3 butt splashes. I wonder if they dusted Jim off due to being in Texas and figuring a hick getting beat up would be easy heat?

- The Warrior circled Mean Gene round and round and cut a rambling promo that went on and on. At one point it looked like Gene looked to the camera for someone to cut this goof off.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I believe Pritchard said that matches ran long so they ended up just shortening the time intervals from 90 seconds to 60 seconds. The pre-Rumble matches all went roughly 1 Hour, 10 Minutes not including entrances, post-match antics, between match interviews, etc.

IIRC by then they were still trying to complete PPV Events by the 2 or 2 & 1/2 Hour mark so that would make more sense.

I seem to recall the short intervals being promoted ahead of time, as in "this will make for the fastest paced Rumble ever!" from the Toddster.

I'd have to look the video up for confirmation.

 

[King Kamala]

Yeah. Todd definitely promoted Rumble on events center segments as being "The fastest 30 minutes on television since Friends!"

Also I'm pretty sure, and @BUTT may correct me if I'm wrong. that Friends premiered in September 1994. Saying fastest/best in four months is a stunning lack of hyperbole by WWE (or really anyone's?) standards.

 

[alfdogg]

Martel was subbing for the recently fired Jim Neidhart I believe

 

[alfdogg]

Man Owen and Martel def should have been a tag team the more I think about it

 

[snuffbox]

The Rumble 95 was probably all 3 of the reasons listed already. Not necessarily HBK, but Bulldog would need some protection from getting blown up. The roster was, as a Monty Python waiter might say, wafer thin. And the undercard took up more time than usual, by design. Bret-Diesel was a 20+ minute match, lots of run-ins, plus intros and postmatch stuff. And the tag team match had the LT angle booked for afterward.

And 1990 is the first year that I have many memories of watching. But rewatching so much of it lately, there's a lot that I didn't remember and WWF was just as weird as WCW with its Black Scorpion stuff later in the year.

Edit: Yes! An Owen/Martel tag team would have been Midnights-level good.

 

[Epic Springs]

I remember Mo was eliminated from the '95 Rumble in seconds and wondered why WWE never brought it up again in video packages when discussing "shortest Rumble times". It was always "the Bushwacker record". I think they've now acknowledged it as one of the shortest Rumble times. Warlord is still considered the shortest unless Santino in '09 beats it.

 

[King Kamala]

Mo is one of if not the only person I can think of who did an injury angle to put him out of action (against Owen Hart on Wrestling Challenge! A C show!) then just came back as if nothing ever happened. No cool leg brace (or facemask like Virgiol in '92) or half hearted attempt at getting revenge. It's like Mo was like "Eh. I'm just gonna go back to being Mabel's sidekick."

Patheticness of Mo has long been a source of humor for me. It's so pathetic that it's often not often brought up by WWE geeks. LET'S GO MO!

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349483865564303362

Many here can't appreciate how exciting it was to see a Black Bart type guy on Superstars as the jabroni. Up until 1995 most of the TV I had access to (No cable) was geeks being smashed in 90 seconds. At least Bart, Horowitz, Powers, Brunzell, etc were going to get some spots in and make a little match of it.

The extreme version of this was the AWA, who had multi min squash matches, which actually makes more sense kayfabe wise. I believe I even saw a Crusher/Baron VR vs 2 jabronis in a 2 out of 3 falls match on youtube from 1984 since Crusher and Baron were tag champs.

--

On the other side, I distinctly remember 8 year old Brody making his Mama write Shane Douglas' name on our kitchen bulletin board so I could remember the name of this new guy. Knowing my mother's habit of not throwing pinned notes out, I would guess that note hung there until around 1995. That same board is still up in her kitchen and has stuff like a Insurance company ruler from 1987 on it. Hey you never know when you'll need a ruler handy....

 

[snuffbox]

That's another weird thing about going back to watch 1990 WWF. Having watched more of his NWA/territory stuff, and with his look, I'm surprised they didn't do a little more with Bart.

 

[Mental Lee ILL]

Why was Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart missing from the WWF and the Hart Foundation in 1997 in between RAW is WAR in San Antonio, Texas and RAW is WAR in MSG in New York City where he returned and re-joined the group?

 

[Epic Springs]

The office found out Neidhart was actually under contract with another company so they took him off TV until it was settled.

 

[alkeiper]

Going through 1990 results you get guys like Bart, Pez Whatley, Iron Mike Sharpe, Buddy Rose, Jim Brunzell who had accomplished things in other promotions and while they weren't getting pushed in any way, they were certainly good hands. I don't know what Black Bart could contribute beyond that honestly. Is there anyone on the heel side of Survivor Series '90 he was better than except maybe Boris Zhukov?

One jobber I note is the Gladiator/Ricky Hunter. He was a journeyman in the 1960s-70s, held the Florida title and had a tag title reign with Pat Patterson in San Francisco. He was near 50 and needed work, Pat got him job duty spots. Never won a WWF match. But he was quite capable in the ring.

 

[King Kamala]

I don't know anyone else listens to John Arezzi's Pro Wrestling Then & Now podcast with Brian Last. If @BruiserBrody doesn't listen then he should. It's two of them recapping thirty-ish year old episodes of Arezzi's pro wrestling talk radio call in show. Right now they're up to early November 1990, which is period @alkeiper is talking about. Watching them recap pro wrestling news as they are staring right into the nosedive is fascinating. Territories are basically dead (except Memphis, which seems oddly hot at the time), WWF is suddenly grasping at straws and wondering what to do, WCW seems more incompetent than ever. Lots of Herb Abrams.

Survivor Series '90 is fascinating cause there's so many undercard guys on that show, who they were literally like "After this show, you're done."

 

[BruiserBrody]

Going through 1990 results you get guys like Bart, Pez Whatley, Iron Mike Sharpe, Buddy Rose, Jim Brunzell who had accomplished things in other promotions and while they weren't getting pushed in any way, they were certainly good hands. I don't know what Black Bart could contribute beyond that honestly. Is there anyone on the heel side of Survivor Series '90 he was better than except maybe Boris Zhukov?

One jobber I note is the Gladiator/Ricky Hunter. He was a journeyman in the 1960s-70s, held the Florida title and had a tag title reign with Pat Patterson in San Francisco. He was near 50 and needed work, Pat got him job duty spots. Never won a WWF match. But he was quite capable in the ring.

I suppose he was a better worker than the Warlord type stiffs, but Bart was more of a southern brawler, blade jobs and bullwhips kind of guy. He and Moondog Rex doing their WCW tag team stuff in 1990/91 WWF wouldn't be horrible or anything.
The WWF wasn't exactly perfect when it came to maximizing talent. Joe Leduc, Dick Slater, Terry Taylor, etc etc.

IIRC Dusty was still a fan of Bart's in later 90s WCW, putting him over on commentary some while Bart jobbed as Big Train Bart.

Edit: Damn it, now I kind of want Black Bart to show up in WCW 1989 for the J-Tex Corp.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I don't know anyone else listens to John Arezzi's Pro Wrestling Then & Now podcast with Brian Last. If @BruiserBrody doesn't listenIt's two of them recapping thirty-ish year old episodes of Arezzi's pro wrestling talk radio call in show. Right now they're up to early November 1990, which is period @alkeiper is talking about. Watching them recap pro wrestling news as they are staring right into the nosedive is fascinating. Territories are basically dead (except Memphis, which seems oddly hot at the time), WWF is suddenly grasping at straws and wondering what to do, WCW seems more incompetent than ever. Lots of Herb Abrams.

Survivor Series '90 is fascinating cause there's so many undercard guys on that show, who they were literally like "After this show, you're done."

I listen once in a while when Last sells an interesting sounding one during his Corny plugs. Between the Sheets being 4+ hours every week. Plus 2 3 hr long Corny shows, plug 2 Peter Winson pods keep me busy. I sprinkle in JR and Eric B if the topic is of interest to me. JR is falling down the list for me by the week.
I am now also listening to Retroblasting's weekly 2 hour Sat. Live show, which is youtube only I think and hidden behind the privacy wall because youtube algorisms punish creators if people do not listen to the whole show.

 

[King Kamala]

Between The Sheets is always tempting but I can't imagine wanting to listen to Bix talk for 6 hours. He gets a lot of shit now and deservedly so but Bill Simmons had one of the best statements ever in the early '00s and I'm paraphrasing; Absolutely nothing should last more than three and a half hours. I would put criticial surgeries and international flights as exceptions but that's it. Even sex probably gets annoying if it lasts 4+ hours! Not that I would know.

Hey. This isn't the podcast thread!

 

[BruiserBrody]

Between The Sheets is always tempting but I can't imagine wanting to listen to Bix talk for 6 hours. He gets a lot of shit now and deservedly so but Bill Simmons had one of the best statements ever in the early '00s and I'm paraphrasing; Absolutely nothing should last more than three and a half hours. I would put criticial surgeries and international flights as exceptions but that's it. Even sex probably gets annoying if it lasts 4+ hours! Not that I would know.

Hey. This isn't the podcast thread!

The 80s ones are always a 100 percent listen. Even those can take weeks depending on other factors in the Busy Life of a Brody.

Kris Zellner shits on Bix quite a bit of being a shitty co-host. I suppose its all in fun, until he goes all Brian Last on him.

 

[King Kamala]

‘Guardians of the Galaxy’ actor offers $20,000 reward in case of Florida manatee found with TRUMP scraped on its back

Dave Bautista took to Twitter this week after seeing the news of a manatee spotted in a Florida spring with the word TRUMP scraped in algae on its back.

www.heraldtribune.com

BATISTA IS BETTER