Author Topic: Catalans declare Independence  (Read 168 times)

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Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Catalans declare Independence
« on: October 27, 2017, 10:31:23 AM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41780116

https://www.apnews.com/906c64713d5745e586eaecd3f5f06cea/The-Latest:-Spain-seeking-rebellion-charges-for-Catalans

this has been going on for awhile now and it's really boiling over now with them declaring independence in parliment and the Spanish government will almost certainly impose direct rule and we already saw what the Spanish police tactics were like when the Catalans tried to have their vote on Independence a few weeks ago. Meanwhile pretty much every country in the world is being exposed as massive hypocrites because their whole rhetoric about the right to self-determination is being blown the fuck up and they're backing Spain.

Offline Flik

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Re: Catalans declare Independence
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2017, 06:32:04 AM »
As I've heard a few Catalonians talk about this. The country, and we might as well start calling it that, is actually about a little less than 50% of actually wanting to split from Spain.

The real issue is that Spain's basically forcing their hand to independence by repeatedly doing stupid things. When the current power in Spain got into power, separating was only about 20%. Now it has risen to the point that you are getting close to that 50% margin to leave.

Now the Catalonians who say that it is less than 50% (like a 49-51 type of thing, it is that split apparently) are of the portion that don't want to leave Spain. But they also say things like what Spain did in regards to the actual vote, how they treat Catalonia lately, how they routinely expect them to fund (via taxes) the rest of the country has gotten them on edge. Many of those opposed to leaving Spain say that if Spain had sat down and talked to them like adults, this likely wouldn't've gotten this far.

So you've got a literal divide of people that's making it hard to take one side or the other. This is what's also making it hard for the world to act regarding it. You've got the new country divided amongst its own people on what they wanted.

There's also the fact that the Spanish Constitution requires that any province that wants to leave must get the backing of half of the rest of the country. Many of these provinces who signed up, like Catalonia, got things like the ability to self govern. If the world goes in on something like a constitution matter, then the world basically says "constitutions don't mean fuck all" and we wreck all of society as we know it.

Basically, it is a lose-lose situation all around. The world is stuck having to abide by this shitty constitution otherwise we ruin all the others and become hypocrites because of it or even if we went against it. Spain's basically fucked up the situation over Catalonia and it'll fester until they get rid of it themselves. Catalonia is now screwed over because you'll have Catalonians fighting against Spaniards and that area will likely become either a warzone or a place of continually violence.

Edit: I'm not trying to state my opinion above. My opinion is fuck Spain. The above was a little more information if you wanted it.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: Catalans declare Independence
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2017, 07:23:18 AM »
You can put anything you want in a constitution. Governments have put all kinds of awful shit in them in the past and currently and the UN condemns it all the time. That really isn't even a factor.

Offline Flik

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Re: Catalans declare Independence
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2017, 07:43:54 AM »
I was more meaning that unless Spain actually goes out of their way to militarily harm Catalonia, the world will not take a stance against them and honor their constitution. And when I say militarily harm them, I mean invade them and rule with an iron fist.

As long as Spain doesn't do that, the world is going to be hypocrites and allow this to go on. That's why they dissolved the Catalonia parliament and are holding elections. The world won't do a damn thing while they do that.

It might not be a factor for all the other times they've done it, but the difference between all those other times is that this is major player in the world and no one wants to step on that landmine.

So yes, hypocrites.