Author Topic: Arizona's new immigration bill  (Read 14882 times)

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Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2010, 07:04:51 AM »
Furthermore, the idea that illegals pay more in than they get out of governments services is disputed as varying economic studies and those by the CBO estimate that illegals take more from social services than they are actually putting in (2007 study:  http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf).

I said immigrants, not illegal immigrants.
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Offline Chainsaw 🦇 & Tyrano Shark

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« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2010, 08:14:08 AM »
There was a thing on the local news a few days ago about McCain and Co supposedly wanting the federal govt to pay for all of this because Arizona is quickly falling into seriously bad territory money-wise. Schools all over the state are having to close down or fire half their staff or merge with other schools because there's no money in the state budget.

This is just one more reason why I need to get the fuck out of this shithole state.

Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2010, 11:24:03 AM »
I am in favor of open borders.

Offline Dobbs3K

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« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2010, 11:35:48 AM »
I am in favor of open borders.

Well, that's a stupid idea if I ever heard one.
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Offline BPSS

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« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2010, 11:48:44 AM »
I am in favor of open borders.

Well, that's a stupid idea if I ever heard one.

Yeah, breeding license was so much better.

Offline Dobbs3K

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« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2010, 11:52:53 AM »
OK, explain how your magical fairyland "open borders" system would work then.
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Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2010, 12:17:40 PM »
He didn't say he was for it. He just, correctly, said it was a better idea than the shit you drool out.

Open borders would mean there's no such thing as "illegals."  And it would be a boon for the economy.  Do you have any idea how much it costs to oppress people that look/sound different?

Offline Saddam of the 909

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« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2010, 12:19:07 PM »
Not okay with open borders. But it is way too hard for people to come here and live here legally.

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« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2010, 12:19:44 PM »
I don't want no open boarders. All it means is my 'Merican culture is gonna be watered down even more.

Offline BPSS

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« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2010, 12:28:43 PM »
He didn't say he was for it. He just, correctly, said it was a better idea than the shit you drool out.

Correct.

Quote
Open borders would mean there's no such thing as "illegals."  And it would be a boon for the economy.  Do you have any idea how much it costs to oppress people that look/sound different?

Hey smitty, how much was the DoD budget last year?

But it is way too hard for people to come here and live here legally.

My aunt and uncle moved to Arizona in 1997. They set up a business, pay taxes,own property, support the Republicans, etc etc. Real 'American dream' type stuff. They're still on a work visa.

Offline Saddam of the 909

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« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2010, 12:37:04 PM »
My aunt and uncle moved to Arizona in 1997. They set up a business, pay taxes,own property, support the Republicans, etc etc. Real 'American dream' type stuff. They're still on a work visa.

Yeah see, that's not right.

The only reason this hasn't changed is because middle class white people, regardless of political affiliation, hate Mexicans for the most part. Just cause they're different. Those people don't realize that their irrational hate of brown people also affects others.

Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2010, 12:40:46 PM »
Obviously, a move away from the very-recent concept of nationalism/politcal borders is not going to happen.  By open border policy, I mean that anybody who wants to come here to work or create new jobs (which is something that actually happens, unlike Glenn O' Dobb's fictitious crime wave) would be free to do so.  

This would have the same effect as marijuana legalization.  It would both subract from our massive taxation/expenditure system & bring more money into the economy.

Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2010, 12:42:59 PM »
Hey smitty, how much was the DoD budget last year?

Over $650 billion.  And that's after Secretary Gates cut some big ticket procurements.
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Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2010, 12:46:23 PM »
Oh yeah, that also doesn't include the "black budget" for secret stuff.
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Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2010, 01:12:36 PM »
Does that include the VA budget?

Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2010, 01:44:55 PM »
Nope that's a separate $90 billion.  By comparison, the State Department's annual budget is well under $20 billion.
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Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2010, 01:47:38 PM »
I'm guessing Homeland Security is separate?

Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2010, 01:52:59 PM »
That's another $50+ billion, not counting the classified portions of the budget.

The budget for the intelligence community (CIA, etc.) is classified, but I can tell you that it's probably around $60 billion.
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Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2010, 01:57:53 PM »
So, our kill/opress brown people habit runs up about a trillion a year.  And Iraq alone has been over three trillion.

Offline BPSS

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« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2010, 04:16:03 PM »
So, our kill/opress brown people habit runs up about a trillion a year.  And Iraq alone has been over three trillion.

Hey man, you can't run an empire on the cheap.

Offline Dobbs3K

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« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2010, 12:10:03 AM »
Guys, believe it or not, I'm not against immigration. I just believe that as a sovereign country, we have the right to monitor who is going in and out.

I do believe that the immigration process needs to be streamlined and made easier. I also believe people working here should get at least minimum wage, no matter their status. I also partly support some sort of amnesty, but it shouldn't just be a blanket thing.

Oh yeah, and we could have gotten this thing taken care of if not for the money pits in Iraq and Afghanistan. We shouldn't waste another dollar on those expeditions.
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Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2010, 02:45:34 AM »
That doesn't reconcile with your enjoyment of the Arizona law.

Offline "Dot Com" Matt Postin (heel)

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« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2010, 05:42:00 AM »
While we're talking about the Mexicans, look at what I get to see five times a day.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2010, 06:33:35 AM »
His dad's name is Fob? Don't think I've heard that one before.

Offline "Dot Com" Matt Postin (heel)

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« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2010, 06:45:10 AM »
it stands for Fall Out Boy

Offline Dobbs3K

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« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2010, 07:00:20 AM »
That doesn't reconcile with your enjoyment of the Arizona law.

Enjoyment? I'm not sure if the new law in Arizona will even hold up (sounds like there are some constitutional issues possibly). However, the federal government did not do anything about this growing problem for over 20 years (as has been mentioned). The state of Arizona was forced to do something. At least this might force the federal government to take steps to fix the problem.

I see they are going to send predator drones to patrol the border. I'm not sure what that will accomplish, but at least they are acknowledging the issues.
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Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2010, 08:29:27 AM »
That is dumb, expensive, and anti-liberty too.

Offline Byron The Bulp

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« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2010, 08:56:53 AM »
While we're talking about the Mexicans, look at what I get to see five times a day.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831

I'm sorry.

Offline NoCalMike

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« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2010, 03:01:02 PM »
So turns out one of the co-sponsors of this bill owns a law firm that will be responsible for defending the state and police officers when private citizens try to sue.   Hilarious.  So the guy basically wrote the bill to get a bunch of business for his law firm.  Racism, at it's most brilliant.
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Offline Czech

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« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2010, 03:38:03 PM »
I know Arizona gave us Barry Goldwater, but other than him it's been a lot of bad people with bad ideas doing bad things. In the grand scheme of things, populating a desert with millions of transplants and their requisite air conditioners and strip malls was probably kind of retarded.

Offline BPSS

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« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2010, 03:40:40 PM »
So turns out one of the co-sponsors of this bill owns a law firm that will be responsible for defending the state and police officers when private citizens try to sue.   Hilarious.  So the guy basically wrote the bill to get a bunch of business for his law firm.  Racism, at it's most brilliant.

No, I'm sure the guy sponsored the bill because of federal government inaction to deal with all those criminal brown people.

Offline Big Green

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« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2010, 03:59:28 PM »
Can we just give Arizona back to the Indians and call it a day?

Offline BPSS

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« Reply #83 on: April 28, 2010, 04:29:31 PM »
Can we just give Arizona back to the Indians and call it a day?

If by that, you mean "Mexicans", since in legal terms that's who you took it from.

Offline Vitamin X

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« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2010, 05:39:31 PM »
Yeah but who did the Mexicans take the property from?


also, FREE PALESTINE

Offline Chainsaw 🦇 & Tyrano Shark

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« Reply #85 on: April 28, 2010, 09:02:40 PM »
Tonight on the news, the Pima County (Tucson) Sheriff's department said they refused to enforce this thing, calling it stupid and racist. I guess the police are though for now.

Offline Dobbs3K

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« Reply #86 on: April 28, 2010, 11:32:05 PM »
This article is from back in 2006, but it demonstrates how palpable some of the hypocrisy regarding this issue is:

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mexicos-tough-anti-immigration-laws
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Offline BPSS

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« Reply #87 on: April 28, 2010, 11:50:58 PM »
Yeah but who did the Mexicans take the property from?


also, FREE PALESTINE

Well, yeah.

Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2010, 12:14:13 AM »
Yeah but who did the Mexicans take the property from?

Wait, this isn't really right.  Most Mexicans are Mestizos, so they have native ancestry.  But yeah.
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Offline WKU Tops

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« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2010, 12:25:25 AM »
If they try to pass this thing I want to see if they have a "family reunification" provision that's in the bill.  This would allow not only those here illegally to become legalized but also bring over relatives and have them become legalized as well.  Now I'm not going to be ridiculous like right wing radio and scare people by claiming that over 100 million new people are going to be coming into the country because of such a provision, but a reunification provision would enlarge the number of people you'd legalize by quite a bit.  I just don't think the political climate is ripe for passing this bill because with Washington under siege at the grassroots level this is being interpreted as an attempt by the elites in D.C. to keep power with new voters coming onto the rolls.  Also, all the talk we hear is out of the Senate but I'm not sure if Pelosi has the votes in the House to get this thing done.  She's come through on everything else (healthcare, climate change, etc.) but for any House members in conservative districts this is going to be a VERY tough vote to go with healthcare and cap & trade and carry into the midterms.

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Offline Lei Tong

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« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2010, 05:32:29 AM »
An op-ed from an immigration-reduction advocate?

Offline BPSS

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« Reply #92 on: April 29, 2010, 05:54:12 AM »
Can't be any worse than Dobb's referencing a 4 year old article from a right-wing crank site.

Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #93 on: April 29, 2010, 05:55:42 AM »
An op-ed from an immigration-reduction advocate?

FAIR is actually classified as a hate group by the SLPC (http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/12/11/fair-crossing-the-rubicon-of-hate&splcnewsletter=panewsgen-121107/), but I guess if they're publishing on aol news they still maintain "mainstream" credibility.
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Offline Czech

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« Reply #94 on: April 29, 2010, 06:51:27 AM »
I thought you meant Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting and I was like "how did THAT happen?"

Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #95 on: April 29, 2010, 07:22:55 AM »
Based on a guy I met from Fairness in Accuracy in Reporting, they should be classified as, I dunno, a Douchegroup or something like that.
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Offline Dobbs3K

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« Reply #96 on: April 29, 2010, 10:53:24 PM »
Can't be any worse than Dobb's referencing a 4 year old article from a right-wing crank site.

Which was factual nonetheless.
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Offline snuffbox

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« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2010, 01:53:38 AM »
Nope.

Offline 👓bigolsmitty👓

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« Reply #98 on: May 04, 2010, 01:35:15 PM »
Did you guys see that the Suns came out against the law?

http://unleashingchiang.blogspot.com/2010/05/lets-go-suns.html
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Offline Czech

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« Reply #99 on: May 04, 2010, 02:17:08 PM »
By wearing embarrassingly condescending Spanglish jerseys?