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Offline Detective Ventriloquist

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Star Trek- New movie and various series discussion
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2009, 05:22:10 AM »
For someone who never cared for Star Trek, I thought the movie was very good. I agree with Karl Urban as McCoy being one of the highlights. The only thing I sort of disliked was Tyler Perry's role. It's good to see that the movie is good enough so that non-fans can get into it.

Is this the first time that Perry was in a movie that everyone could enjoy?
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Offline Obi Chris Kenobi

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« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2009, 05:55:01 AM »
Aye, I heard him say that, but I was expect them to have some cheap out when they destroyed the red matter and the mining ship. Either way that's very cheap by JJ Abrams so he can have a pet project Star Trek franchise to foil with now too.
That kind of the whole point of doing the movie, though, right?  Paramount wanted to start over?

And its a cheap and lazy thing to do, to disregard anything that happened before it in a way.

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2009, 06:00:44 AM »
How is it disregarding anything that happened before hand when in the timeline it is before the original series, and an alternate reality?

Offline Exslade ZX

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« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2009, 09:39:47 AM »
Aye, I heard him say that, but I was expect them to have some cheap out when they destroyed the red matter and the mining ship. Either way that's very cheap by JJ Abrams so he can have a pet project Star Trek franchise to foil with now too.
That kind of the whole point of doing the movie, though, right?  Paramount wanted to start over?

And its a cheap and lazy thing to do, to disregard anything that happened before it in a way.
To add on to the above comment, what's the point of a reboot if they're just going follow the exact same story as the previous versions?  Not to mention, it would have been a 'cheap out' if they had changed the plot of the movie and reverted back to the original timeline, but it's also a cheap out that they stuck with the alternate timeline explanation?

I personally think they explained quite well why this reality is different from the original, and if the point of the movie was indeed to make a Star Trek movie that 'everyone could see and enjoy' I think they did the it well. And if they tried to follow the formula of show/previous movies to the tee I think the portion of unsatisfied viewers would be larger.

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« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2009, 10:13:09 AM »
Thanks to the last few 15 years, Star Trek continuity had become such a mess that the series' writers couldn't even follow it anymore.  Despite the reshaped timeline, its still the same universe, so it gives future writers the freedom to keep what worked.  This is not a complete reimagining, but a chance to relive the original series without all the messy continuity issues.  I have absolutely no complaints about this movie.

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« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2009, 10:56:59 AM »
Am I the only one that would watch if all the actors signed on to make a new STAR TREK show? The cast worked so well with each other I'm looking forward to the next movie.
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« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2009, 11:07:10 AM »
I would love a tv show based on this cast. 

Offline Tigger

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« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2009, 11:52:16 AM »
I haven't seen it yet, but look at all of the people who never liked/never watched Star Trek (like me) who say they loved the movie. If they wanted to reboot the series, you're always going to have the trekkies, but it seems like they will now make a ton of more fans who will be willing to follow along.

Offline Anakin Flair

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« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2009, 10:45:37 PM »
I would love a tv show based on this cast. 

Normally I'd say no to this, because there would be no way a TV show could match the production values of a feature film... but seeing how far CGI ahs come over the past few years on TV (Stargate, Battlestar Galactica), I think they could actually pull it off.

Offline Smues

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« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2009, 09:00:24 AM »
Just got back. Just remove Star Trek from the title and I really liked it (minus some stupid stuff at the beginning.) I'll just assume that this becomes an alternate reality timeline technobabble thing, because otherwise everything that happened on 28? seasons of television shows didn't happen, making the shows meaningless and fucking everything up.

Also, The Beastie Boys, Nokia, and Budweiser in a Star Trek movie? Hmm. Just call this JJ Abram's space battle movie and I love it.
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Offline Sabre

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« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2009, 09:13:16 AM »
I totally got a kick out of the nokia tone.

Offline Smues

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« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2009, 09:33:46 AM »
Oh yeah one thing I forgot. I spent the whole movie trying to decide if Sulu was played by the guy who was on an episode of House as a pain freak who had to be dominated by a dominatrix. I finally decided it was and would look it up when I got home. I look it up, and sure I was right, but also he was fucking Harold from those White Castle movies. Yeah, I recognize that a dude was in one episode of a TV show, and not that he was Harold, not that I've seen the movies but I've seen the ads enough I should have recognized him. Weird be I.
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Offline Sabre

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« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2009, 10:17:40 AM »
Fuck! Thats where i knew him from, hes the dude who made MILF imfamous following American Pie.

Offline ChrisMWaters

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« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2009, 11:21:50 AM »
Star Trek Bloopers

Keep watching past "Faith of the Heart" for my choice of second favorite part of the video (first was the line that starts at 2:15)

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Offline Sabre

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« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2009, 11:45:05 AM »
Patrick Stewart is the only guy who can pull that off successfully, and straight back into character, excellent stuff.

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« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2009, 03:08:01 PM »
Just got back. Just remove Star Trek from the title and I really liked it (minus some stupid stuff at the beginning.) I'll just assume that this becomes an alternate reality timeline technobabble thing, because otherwise everything that happened on 28? seasons of television shows didn't happen, making the shows meaningless and fucking everything up.

Those cows have already been milked, so what's it matter?

Offline griffinmills

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« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2009, 06:59:19 PM »
Honestly, this movie is awesome. I'm not even a fan of Star Trek and this is one I will DEFINITELY buy for my DVD collection. Oh, and definitely not a prequel.

Can someone explain for those of us that don't catch any of the media hype machine and haven't seen the movie yet how it's not a prequel?  Is it just because folks prefer to call it a "reboot" or whatever?  I guess I don't see it not being a prequel until they actually make some sequels, if that makes sense.  Until then it's just a weird reinterpretation prequel thingy it seems like.

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2009, 07:13:23 PM »
Its a prequel in the sence that it is Kirk and cos' maiden voyage on the Enterprise.  But at the same time its not as it is in a different reality to what the original series was, thus we have a new continuity, different dynamic to the federation and more power to it.

Offline what.the.hell.have.i

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« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2009, 12:20:49 AM »
Honestly, this movie is awesome. I'm not even a fan of Star Trek and this is one I will DEFINITELY buy for my DVD collection. Oh, and definitely not a prequel.

Can someone explain for those of us that don't catch any of the media hype machine and haven't seen the movie yet how it's not a prequel?  Is it just because folks prefer to call it a "reboot" or whatever?  I guess I don't see it not being a prequel until they actually make some sequels, if that makes sense.  Until then it's just a weird reinterpretation prequel thingy it seems like.

How is this hard to understand? A prequel would be a story that sets up all the movies that were made before it (but come after it in movie continuity). This sets up an entirely different timeline where none of that happens. Therefore, prequel = no.
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Offline what.the.hell.have.i

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« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2009, 12:22:04 AM »
Oh yeah one thing I forgot. I spent the whole movie trying to decide if Sulu was played by the guy who was on an episode of House as a pain freak who had to be dominated by a dominatrix. I finally decided it was and would look it up when I got home. I look it up, and sure I was right, but also he was fucking Harold from those White Castle movies. Yeah, I recognize that a dude was in one episode of a TV show, and not that he was Harold, not that I've seen the movies but I've seen the ads enough I should have recognized him. Weird be I.

Also the guy who woos over Marshall to the evil lawfirm in How I Met Your Mother.
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« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2009, 01:12:06 PM »
Honestly, this movie is awesome. I'm not even a fan of Star Trek and this is one I will DEFINITELY buy for my DVD collection. Oh, and definitely not a prequel.

Can someone explain for those of us that don't catch any of the media hype machine and haven't seen the movie yet how it's not a prequel?  Is it just because folks prefer to call it a "reboot" or whatever?  I guess I don't see it not being a prequel until they actually make some sequels, if that makes sense.  Until then it's just a weird reinterpretation prequel thingy it seems like.

Its not a prequel because its a sequel.  It shows one of the characters from the previous movies, with full knowledge of everything that happened in the other movies, traveling backwards in time and meeting his younger self after history gets changed.  Calling this a prequel would be like calling "Back to the Future Part 3" a prequel to "Back to the Future" because it takes place 70-100 years before the first movie, even though its the third in the series.  However, since very few references were made to the other Star Trek movies, you can enjoy it without having actually seen any of the other ones.   Also, because of the events of this movie, all the other "Star Trek" movies can never happen.

Offline Smues

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« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2009, 01:47:54 PM »
Also, because of the events of this movie, all the other "Star Trek" movies can never happen.


Neither can any of the TV shows outside of Enterprise. Thus my problem with it.
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Offline The ghost of bps21

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« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2009, 01:54:57 PM »
I don't care that they changed all that...because if this is a franchise moving forward there would really be no fear that anything major could happen to any of the characters...  Now anything could happen.

That said...I didn't actually enjoy the movie.

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« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2009, 09:42:46 PM »
Now, only seeing a few of the movies, and that was years ago, maybe someone who is a bigger fan can answer me this. How does this movie mess up the rest of the series? Both Spock and Kirk ended up in their rightful positions. We saw how each of the crew members was added to the ship.
Spoiler: show
 Vulcan was destroyed, but Old Spock said that he found a new planet to cultivate and there were some survivors.
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Offline Sabre

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« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2009, 09:47:34 PM »
So everyones complaining about a star trek reboot, yet the batman reboot was the greatest thing ever?

Now, only seeing a few of the movies, and that was years ago, maybe someone who is a bigger fan can answer me this. How does this movie mess up the rest of the series? Both Spock and Kirk ended up in their rightful positions. We saw how each of the crew members was added to the ship.
Spoiler: show
 Vulcan was destroyed, but Old Spock said that he found a new planet to cultivate and there were some survivors.


Because the Kirk we know from the TV series is fundamentally a different kirk in the movie.  He is rebelous because of the loss of his father, and Vulcan as we know it is gone.  There may be a colony of vulcans being rehomed, but billions died, and as a result so may have any potential leaders who helped shape the federation into what we see during the various incarnations of the series.

Take for example this.  Due to them being in a different reality, and as spock claimed their destinys are now changed, the federation will be different.

Potential decisons that kirk now makes will affect the entire outcome over the star trek verse.

Offline Venkman

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« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2009, 09:59:37 PM »
An alternate reality doesn't discount every reality.

See: DBZ.

Speaking of Cloverfield.. anyone else think that giant red monster on the snow planet looked like a red Cloverfield?

Exact comment I made to my friend, though it more closely resembled a large, red version of the things the monster spawned.

Offline ChrisMWaters

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« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2009, 10:09:17 PM »
So everyones complaining about a star trek reboot, yet the batman reboot was the greatest thing ever?

Now, only seeing a few of the movies, and that was years ago, maybe someone who is a bigger fan can answer me this. How does this movie mess up the rest of the series? Both Spock and Kirk ended up in their rightful positions. We saw how each of the crew members was added to the ship.
Spoiler: show
 Vulcan was destroyed, but Old Spock said that he found a new planet to cultivate and there were some survivors.


Because the Kirk we know from the TV series is fundamentally a different kirk in the movie.  He is rebelous because of the loss of his father, and Vulcan as we know it is gone.  There may be a colony of vulcans being rehomed, but billions died, and as a result so may have any potential leaders who helped shape the federation into what we see during the various incarnations of the series.

Take for example this.  Due to them being in a different reality, and as spock claimed their destinys are now changed, the federation will be different.

Potential decisons that kirk now makes will affect the entire outcome over the star trek verse.
Also the fact that Spock's mom died YEARS before her time.

Also, there's a possible note I saw on a Star Trek wiki that states it is possible that salvage from Nero's ship, which came from the 24th century, is what is causing the 23rd century stuff in this timeline to look more advanced, as they made it as compatable as possible.

Same basic theory was used in a "Star Trek: Voyager" two parter where a 20th century guy found a 29th century ship, and used the tech there, dumbed it down as best as he could, and started the computer age in that timeline.

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Offline Venkman

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« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2009, 10:14:58 PM »
Spoiler: show
Are we still doing these? Anyway, when Spock Prime said to Spock "My usual farewell would be self-serving" or something along those lines


my friend and I had a real, real good laugh at the line. I think we were like, the only two really laughing it up in the whole almost full theatre, but it was the best line!

Offline what.the.hell.have.i

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« Reply #78 on: May 13, 2009, 12:00:10 AM »
I don't see how this "destroys" the tv series or previous movies. Hello? Alternate timeline. Those thing ALL happened. Someone went back in time and changed it, but there is still a consciousness of what happened prior to that (in Old Spock). Venk hit the nail on the head when he said, "An alternate reality doesn't discount every reality."
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline what.the.hell.have.i

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« Reply #79 on: May 13, 2009, 12:01:36 AM »
*apologies for my shoddy spelling/punctuation/spelling. Hooray for Blackberry's. :P
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« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2009, 10:22:47 AM »
Nice shout out to Slusho or whatever it was from Cloverfield as well.

Sooo... the Romulans got out of their shoulderpads on everything 80s phase and are now into their tribal tattoo and heavy leather coat late 90s MMAer phase.

Offline Tigger

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« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2009, 10:55:28 AM »
Figures you'd post in here.

Offline ChrisMWaters

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« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2009, 01:36:37 PM »
Nice shout out to Slusho or whatever it was from Cloverfield as well.

Sooo... the Romulans got out of their shoulderpads on everything 80s phase and are now into their tribal tattoo and heavy leather coat late 90s MMAer phase.
These Romulans in the movie weren't military.  As for the face tattoos, apparently it represents some type of loss.  Normally it's painted on, and it would fade over time...but they had it tattooed on because their pain from losing their planet would never go away.

Read that in the prequel comic.

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« Reply #83 on: May 13, 2009, 01:48:32 PM »
I thought I saw the pregnant wife with one as well.

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« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2009, 05:23:11 PM »
I saw it twice. There's tons of things you can nitpick. Music was just OK. (The shuttles escaping/title reveal was great). The first half hour wasn't really all that great. Kirk being promoted... really? Kirk getting booted off the ship... really?

But here's two things they got right: Kirk, and Spock. Their interplay was incredibly fun. And it's all the movie needed. Great movie.


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« Reply #85 on: May 18, 2009, 03:10:28 PM »
This movie was awesome, my favourite of 09 so far, and I know absolutely nothing about Star Trek, other then that nerds like it. And as a massive nerd, I never got into it, which says something

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« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2009, 03:23:47 PM »
Also, because of the events of this movie, all the other "Star Trek" movies can never happen.


Neither can any of the TV shows outside of Enterprise. Thus my problem with it.
Well, your DVDs of those shows aren't going to cease to exist because of a time paradox, so you can still enjoy them.

Offline The ghost of bps21

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« Reply #87 on: May 19, 2009, 12:37:47 AM »
"So everyones complaining about a star trek reboot, yet the batman reboot was the greatest thing ever?"

...

Yes?

Damn that Batman reboot was fucking great...

Offline King Kamala

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« Reply #88 on: May 19, 2009, 04:50:50 AM »
The thing that confused me is that the Star Trek reboot is getting nearly as much praise as The Batman one. I mean there are a few nitpicks about logistics but outside of some of the hardcore Trekkers and Armond White, it's gotten near universal praise. It's got a 95% Fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes for pete's sake!

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« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2009, 09:58:37 AM »
For no real reason, I made this.



Funny thing is, after finding out that they did a Star Trek/X-Men comic around the time First Contact came out, I could easily see a comic company doing this.

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« Reply #90 on: May 22, 2009, 07:47:19 AM »
My grilfriend, who hadn't seen much Star Trek till this year, absolutely loves Star Trek Voyager now - interesting part is its because of the psychology aspects of it, if you believe that. Bloody psychology graduates...

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« Reply #91 on: May 22, 2009, 10:19:18 AM »
Fuckin A, reason to watch Jeri Ryan and not get bitched slapped for perving.

Offline Justice and Rule

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« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2009, 10:36:02 AM »
I didn't like the movie, and I'm baffled as to why most people like it so much.

- To be honest, it didn't feel much like a Star Trek film. Generally speaking, Star Trek films have a slower pace than what you generally associate with a lot of Sci-Fi films. This can be really bad at times, but if you look at films like Wrath of Khan, The Undiscovered Country, and First Contact, they use the pacing to their advantage to build things up. The pace of this film just felt off to me; like they were trying to fit so much stuff in rather than make the best use of what they already had. They could have slowed down and cut some of the action for some quieter, character-establishing moments.
- It also goes against what the good Star Trek films did; make the story about the people, not about the events. Sure, there are big things happening, but The Undiscovered Country isn't about peace with the Klingons as much as it's about Kirk reconciling with his son's death, and First Contact is much more about Picard's struggles against the Borg and the concept of humanity more than it is about eliminating the human race. What was the underlying concept here? I mean, it's a nice action movie... but beneath all the scenes, I didn't feel a heart, and that disappointed me.
- On the action, it was hit or miss for me. I liked the orbital rig fight (Though someone needs to explain to J.J. Abrams what the hell fencing actually is...), but I hated the snow beast and the ending action sequence. Especially the latter; most of it just felt out of place. And how the villains are finally dispatched came off as just stupid to me, even disregarding how wrong they had their science. Another example: I liked the scene where Kirk steals the car, up until he OMG JUMPS OUT JUST BEFORE IT GOES OVER THE CLIFF. It felt like they were trying too hard to establish Kirk as an action hero, and it made me groan.
- On the acting, I liked a lot of it. I felt most of the characters were interesting, and I'd like to see more focus on them in upcoming movies. I loved the Kobayashi Maru scene with Kirk, and a lot of the interplay amongst the cast. The comedy also worked well enough.
- On the other side of the coin, though, the villains were absolutely horrible. Their design just screamed stupid (What sort of space ship forces you to jump from platform to platform to get around. And why the hell do some rooms look like futuristic sewers?) and they were just so generic. You could see that Abrams looked at Khan and tried to make a modern update of him (Similar motivation, similar obsession, similar access to a world-destroying weapon...). Boy, did he fail. Eric Bana didn't help much, but I'm not sure I can credit him with failing as a villain when it was designed so poorly.
- Overall, it's not a bad movie, but it really rubs me the wrong way. The action works sometimes, and the actors are quite good. But in the end, it feels a lot more like a fan-fiction story than a real movie plot. Abrams loves the characters, but he never does anything beyond showing how much he loves the character. Next time, I'm hoping he puts together an interesting plot.

Offline "Dot Com" Matt Postin (heel)

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« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2009, 11:11:14 AM »
You make a good point, but I can't really fault Abrams, et. al. for making the movie they did. They pretty much had to go all out with this one as a summer actioneer in order to save the franchise. If they had made a subtle, well-paced movie, it probably wouldn't have been a blockbuster, and Star Trek would be shelved for a good few years.

Offline Detective Ventriloquist

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« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2009, 12:35:17 PM »
I didn't like the movie, and I'm baffled as to why most people like it so much.

The acting was very good. There was enough action to keep people's attention. There were characters that people cared about. The script was well written. It was a fun movie that doesn't need to be taken seriously. People's opinions are different and just because you don't like a movie doesn't mean that others have to dislike it as well. Plus it's getting people interested in the original series again, specifically people that never watched the original series or only watched it in passing.
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Offline Justice and Rule

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« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2009, 01:47:10 PM »
You make a good point, but I can't really fault Abrams, et. al. for making the movie they did. They pretty much had to go all out with this one as a summer actioneer in order to save the franchise. If they had made a subtle, well-paced movie, it probably wouldn't have been a blockbuster, and Star Trek would be shelved for a good few years.

Maybe, though I think that he could have expected more of his audience. I'm not saying that it had to be utterly amazing or anything, but I think that he could done much more with the plot and the characters, considering how well the actors fit their roles. The movie didn't make me swear off future iterations, but I suppose I was disappointed after the amount of hype that I saw out there.

I didn't like the movie, and I'm baffled as to why most people like it so much.

The acting was very good. There was enough action to keep people's attention. There were characters that people cared about. The script was well written. It was a fun movie that doesn't need to be taken seriously. People's opinions are different and just because you don't like a movie doesn't mean that others have to dislike it as well. Plus it's getting people interested in the original series again, specifically people that never watched the original series or only watched it in passing.

Oh Christ, calm down and actually read what I said and don't just cherry-pick one single quote. I don't understand why so many people like it so much. I can see how people can like it, but it's getting way, way too much praise despite having a lot of flaws. I think I accurately assessed the problems with the movie in an unbiased fashion (Like you, I've watched some Next Generation in passing, as well as some DS9). I've seen more than a few people (I think there are even a few in this thread) say this is the best Trek movie ever, amongst other things. It feels like people are getting way too excited because Abrams didn't screw things up, and I'm not sure that makes it a great movie.

Offline "Dot Com" Matt Postin (heel)

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« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2009, 01:49:43 PM »
Think of this as the Batman Begins of the series. Enjoyed by some fans, not all, but necessary for laying the groundwork for future films.

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« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2009, 02:06:05 PM »
I didn't like the movie, and I'm baffled as to why most people like it so much.

The acting was very good. There was enough action to keep people's attention. There were characters that people cared about. The script was well written. It was a fun movie that doesn't need to be taken seriously. People's opinions are different and just because you don't like a movie doesn't mean that others have to dislike it as well. Plus it's getting people interested in the original series again, specifically people that never watched the original series or only watched it in passing.

Oh Christ, calm down and actually read what I said and don't just cherry-pick one single quote. I don't understand why so many people like it so much. I can see how people can like it, but it's getting way, way too much praise despite having a lot of flaws. I think I accurately assessed the problems with the movie in an unbiased fashion (Like you, I've watched some Next Generation in passing, as well as some DS9). I've seen more than a few people (I think there are even a few in this thread) say this is the best Trek movie ever, amongst other things. It feels like people are getting way too excited because Abrams didn't screw things up, and I'm not sure that makes it a great movie.
[/quote]

I was just trying to point out some reasons why people would like it so much. I really liked it, but like you, I don't feel it was the best of the series. It certainly had it's flaws, but I felt that what was done right outweighed those flaws. I agree with the snow beast. I didn't like that whole segment leading up to when he met old Spock. That was really the only scene I didn't like.
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Offline Lord of The Curry

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« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »
I thought it was fairly well done. The performances (pacticularly Kirk and Bones) were very solid which was enough for me, also the chemistry between Chris Pine and Zarachy Quinto was really fun. I'm also a big Bruce Greenwood fan so he's always awesome.

Offline Justice and Rule

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« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2009, 02:10:33 PM »
While I wouldn't say it's as good as Batman Begins (Which I also really liked), I understand the comparison. I'll have higher expectations for the next movie, however.

Quote
I was just trying to point out some reasons why people would like it so much. I really liked it, but like you, I don't feel it was the best of the series. It certainly had it's flaws, but I felt that what was done right outweighed those flaws. I agree with the snow beast. I didn't like that whole segment leading up to when he met old Spock. That was really the only scene I didn't like.

Sorry if I came off a little snarky; I've been debating this with multiple people a lot and I've been rather frustrated. Again, it's not as much that they like as much as the universal love of it and the amount of love people have for it. I understand this is completely my personal opinion, but I don't think I've ever been so at odds with everyone on a movie.