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Offline devo

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Sonic the Hedgehog
« on: February 03, 2010, 09:20:48 PM »
http://kotaku.com/5463913/project-needlemouse-is-sonic-4-episode-i?skyline=true&s=i

As per usual with new Sonic releases, your options regarding how you react to this news can either be A) Unabashed childlike glee or B) Eye-rolling apathy. Choose wisely!

Offline The ghost of bps21

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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 09:25:55 PM »
I'm going with A) Unabashed childlike glee.

Playing the original 2D Sonic games on Xbox Live is still awesome and I enjoy playing Sonic Advance on my phone.  This is exactly what the future of the Sonic franchise should be.  Downloadable old school style.

Offline fazzle

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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 09:33:17 PM »
B)

Seriously, B)

It's sonic.

They'll find a way to fuck it up

Offline blade2kxx

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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 11:12:59 PM »
... I'll go with A and hope I don't end up with B when Episode 2 comes out.


Offline Sabre

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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 11:32:01 PM »
Throw me down for option A).

Offline Venkman

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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 12:43:28 AM »
This is why I hate it when games stop using numbering, then start using them again. It would be like if they released a WiiWare game called "Super Mario Bros. 4" - I don't know about you kids, but that's what we thought Mario World was. So, Sonic and Knuckles wasn't Sonic 4? To me, it was, so this is a fraud.

I want to play it though.

Offline blade2kxx

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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 01:08:32 AM »
This is why I hate it when games stop using numbering, then start using them again. It would be like if they released a WiiWare game called "Super Mario Bros. 4" - I don't know about you kids, but that's what we thought Mario World was. So, Sonic and Knuckles wasn't Sonic 4? To me, it was, so this is a fraud.

I want to play it though.

Sonic 3 was really only half of Sonic 3.  The true Sonic 3, and what I consider the best game in the history of the Genesis, is the combined S3 and S&K.  That's your real Sonic 3 right there.


Offline devo

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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 01:10:44 AM »
Agreed. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is not only one of the best games on the Genesis but one of the greatest titles of its era.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards "eye-rolling apathy" at the moment, since my excitement for every Sonic release since '94 (with slight exceptions for a couple of the GBA and DS versions) has gone unrewarded.

Offline Venkman

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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 01:12:38 AM »
I agree that Sonic 3 is half a game without Knuckles, but I always thought the ACTUAL Sonic and Knuckles game was Sonic 4. Some wikipedia research shows me that I'm wrong to think this though as the whole thing is considered part of Sonic 3's grand narrative.

On that note, it bums me out that the comp discs released over the years don't have S3+K due to emulation issues.

Offline what.the.hell.have.i

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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 01:30:42 AM »
I can't read the news release at work - is it going to be a 2D throwback?
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline devo

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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 01:33:46 AM »
Yeah - 2D gameplay with 3D graphics. It's on the front page of Gamespot if you can access that site.

Offline Smues

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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 01:48:17 AM »
I agree that Sonic 3 is half a game without Knuckles, but I always thought the ACTUAL Sonic and Knuckles game was Sonic 4. Some wikipedia research shows me that I'm wrong to think this though as the whole thing is considered part of Sonic 3's grand narrative.

On that note, it bums me out that the comp discs released over the years don't have S3+K due to emulation issues.

Which ones don't include S3+k? The Sonic mega collection on the game cube does. And of you buy s3 and s&k on xbox live there's an option to combine as well.
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Offline luke-o

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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 01:52:27 AM »
That makes me fall into coloumn A.

But I will end up in coloumn B soon enough.

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Offline what.the.hell.have.i

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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 01:59:09 AM »
Yeah - 2D gameplay with 3D graphics. It's on the front page of Gamespot if you can access that site.

Interesting, so in the vein of SFIV then I guess.. I'll have to remember to check this out from home tonight.
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Offline Venkman

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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 02:05:24 AM »
I agree that Sonic 3 is half a game without Knuckles, but I always thought the ACTUAL Sonic and Knuckles game was Sonic 4. Some wikipedia research shows me that I'm wrong to think this though as the whole thing is considered part of Sonic 3's grand narrative.

On that note, it bums me out that the comp discs released over the years don't have S3+K due to emulation issues.

Which ones don't include S3+k? The Sonic mega collection on the game cube does. And of you buy s3 and s&k on xbox live there's an option to combine as well.

Hmm... maybe I'm wrong.  I have the Sonic Collection for the Xbox and I think it's actually on that as an unlockable I never bothered to unlock. I don't believe it's on the PS2 Genesis Collection (which I own) or the Ultimate Genesis Collection for the 360 (which I also own). As I already own about 3 versions of Sonic games, I decided against buying ANOTHER version for XBL.

dubq: I think "like New Super Mario Bros." is the more apt comparison. That's a good thing.


Offline AndrewTS

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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2010, 08:40:40 AM »
I agree that Sonic 3 is half a game without Knuckles, but I always thought the ACTUAL Sonic and Knuckles game was Sonic 4. Some wikipedia research shows me that I'm wrong to think this though as the whole thing is considered part of Sonic 3's grand narrative.

Flying Battery, Mushroom Valley, and Sandopolis actually appear in the level select screen of the standalone Sonic 3 cartridges. 
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Offline ChrisMWaters

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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2010, 09:33:04 AM »
I agree that Sonic 3 is half a game without Knuckles, but I always thought the ACTUAL Sonic and Knuckles game was Sonic 4. Some wikipedia research shows me that I'm wrong to think this though as the whole thing is considered part of Sonic 3's grand narrative.

Flying Battery, Mushroom Valley, and Sandopolis actually appear in the level select screen of the standalone Sonic 3 cartridges. 
Are they playable though?

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Offline AndrewTS

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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2010, 09:46:53 AM »
I agree that Sonic 3 is half a game without Knuckles, but I always thought the ACTUAL Sonic and Knuckles game was Sonic 4. Some wikipedia research shows me that I'm wrong to think this though as the whole thing is considered part of Sonic 3's grand narrative.

Flying Battery, Mushroom Valley, and Sandopolis actually appear in the level select screen of the standalone Sonic 3 cartridges.  
Are they playable though?

No.  My point being they were planned for as far back as during Sonic 3's development, but were cut for time.
The geek shall inherit the earth.

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Offline A WOMAN'S PLACE IS IN THE RUMBLE

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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 10:22:23 AM »
Well Sonic 3 and S&K were supposed to be one big game but they ended up splitting them in halves, putting one out in February and the other in October.  I think if they had just waited until the fall and released the whole thing as one big game, it would have sold better (from what I remember when the NPD results were more freely available online Sonic 3 sold just over a million and S&K did a little better than 3, but both of them were WAY down from Sonic 2*), helped to not burn the audience out so much on Sonic, and been a more formidable competitor for DKC**, but such a concept likely was foreign to The WCW Of Gaming.

I also think it would have been a wise business move to leverage their back catalog by releasing the Genesis Sonic games, one by one, on GBA***, like Nintendo did with the Mario games, to wrangle some last profits out of them before moving on to the new 2D Sonic games, rather than burning the audience out again on Sonic by releasing Sonic Advance 1, 2, 3 and then Rush for DS in successive years, but that one isn't as big a mistake.

* Yes I know Sonic 2 was bundled so of course its sales were higher.  But a million apiece CMON MAN.
** Of course they didn't know Donkey Kong Country was in development when they made the decision to split the games into two but still
*** I mean good ports not the shitty GBA port of Sonic 1

Offline Gary

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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2010, 10:32:57 AM »
I'm definitely in column B.

I don't know what's sadder-the downward quality in the series as it went on, or the fact that Sonic itself has some of the worst fans in the history of anything.

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Offline Adam

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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2010, 10:50:37 AM »
Can someone explain the download thing? Is it not going to be released as a physical game? Call me old fashioned but I don't like buying a game without actually owning the game on my shelf.

But fuck me do I like the idea of a 2D sonic game in 2010.

Offline The ghost of bps21

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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2010, 10:53:11 AM »
It's going to be a Live arcade, PSN...whatever they call their thing, Wii...whatever they call their thing...download like say, Splosion Man or Battlefield 1943 or MegaMan 9 are.

Offline A WOMAN'S PLACE IS IN THE RUMBLE

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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2010, 10:57:03 AM »
I don't like episodic gaming in general.  All it does is give publishers an excuse to charge more for the combined parts than they would have been able to for a whole game. 

Offline Adam

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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2010, 11:03:56 AM »
I don't like episodic gaming in general.  All it does is give publishers an excuse to charge more for the combined parts than they would have been able to for a whole game. 

Is it only going to be, like, three levels, for Episode One? And if so, what's the UK price likely to be?

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2010, 11:06:03 AM »
I reckon £3-5 an episode.

Offline Adam

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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2010, 11:29:29 AM »
Episode = Level?

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2010, 01:16:21 PM »
Well the only episodic game that i kept an eye on was the newest MONKEY ISLAND!~!(tm) so id expect a good number of levels for this sonic.  Perhaps 3 or 4 worlds an episode with 3-4 chapters per world.

If its the Sonic 2 formula of 2 chapters per world, the game could get slated for mega overpricing.

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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2010, 01:19:28 PM »
Halflife's latest games in the series are episodic and they aren't that short. I am very hopeful that this game will be good because it's hard to screw up a 2D Sonic game.
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Offline ChrisMWaters

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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2010, 01:33:46 PM »
Halflife's latest games in the series are episodic and they aren't that short. I am very hopeful that this game will be good because it's hard to screw up a 2D Sonic game.
Yeah but look how long it's taking them to release Half-Life 2, Episode 3.

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Offline AndrewTS

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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2010, 01:36:48 PM »
Well Sonic 3 and S&K were supposed to be one big game but they ended up splitting them in halves, putting one out in February and the other in October.  I think if they had just waited until the fall and released the whole thing as one big game, it would have sold better (from what I remember when the NPD results were more freely available online Sonic 3 sold just over a million and S&K did a little better than 3, but both of them were WAY down from Sonic 2*), helped to not burn the audience out so much on Sonic, and been a more formidable competitor for DKC**, but such a concept likely was foreign to The WCW Of Gaming.

So you're telling me that the beginning of the end for Sonic was 3 and Knuckles.

Not the shitty 3D Blast...?

Not the delayed and ultimately canceled Sonic X-treme never appearing, meaning the only appearances of Sonic on the Saturn were mediocre spinoffs and one collection of the old games?

Not the only-above-average-when-released Adventure games being followed up with increasingly awful 3D games?

I don't think it was a DKC-specific thing at all, either.  I believe '94 also featured a SNES price drop in time for Christmas, and was probably an important factor in Nintendo surging ahead of Sega late in the 16-bit wars.  DKC certainly helped, but it was part of a renewed marketing campaign around the same time too (Play it Loud).

Quote
and been a more formidable competitor for DKC.

I don't think you remember '94 that well.  DKC was an insane phenomenon, both critically and sales-wise.  It got better reviews than either component game of S3&Knuckles, and even if they were released as one game, the graphics would have assured DKC would get more attention and praise.  I'd say it was astoundingly bad timing, though.

With Sonic, I think Sega just did what they tend to do with everything--fucked up, and it became more important to keep Sonic going as a brand than to make quality games.  Plus, Sonic Team lost key members of the staff, the series never found solid footing as a 3D game, and Sonic Team and Sonic's rep went down the crapper.  

Quote from: 'Master Thrasher'
Halflife's latest games in the series are episodic and they aren't that short.

Apple, meet Orange.

Sonic games don't need to be long.  You can complete the first and second Sonic games on Genesis in less than an hour each, maybe two for 3 & Knuckles.


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Offline Flik

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« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2010, 02:50:13 PM »
I'm up for a 2D Sonic game.

The problem? Its being made by Sega.

If it was Nintendo, I'd be fucking there.

Offline AndrewTS

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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2010, 02:52:32 PM »
I'm up for a 2D Sonic game.

The problem? Its being made by Sega.

If it was Nintendo, I'd be fucking there.

Sega would probably publish it no matter what. :P

We don't actually know who is developing it at this point.
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I gave up watching pro wrestling in favor of something better written, more coherent, and less insulting to my intelligence--girly comic books.

Offline Flik

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« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2010, 12:35:58 AM »
...yeah, Sega would, but still...

Its fucking Sega. Can we trust them with anything these days?

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« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2010, 12:39:31 AM »
I dunno, Madworld and HOTD: Overkill were alright.

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Offline Black Lushus

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« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2010, 12:46:55 AM »
The last Sonic I played was Sonic 2 and I loved it so much, I felt they couldn't do any better and moved on from the series.

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« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2010, 12:51:17 AM »
Sonic 2 is the best of the 2D games (Sonic Rush aside), but you should really give 3 and S&K a go. Get them off the Virtual Console.

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Offline Black Lushus

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« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2010, 12:53:39 AM »
eh I was just going to get 2 and call it a day.  Maybe somewhere down the road, there are other things on the VC I'd rather get.

Offline AndrewTS

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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2010, 04:42:05 PM »
I dunno, Madworld and HOTD: Overkill were alright.

Sega just published Madworld.

In fact, Sega's most important contributions to the home consoles this generation have been their published games.  

Quote
Sonic 2 is the best of the 2D games (Sonic Rush aside)

Way to go from being so right to so wrong so quickly! :P

At any rate, more people should play Sonic Pocket Adventure.  It's like Sonic 2 with new level designs.  Barring that, the original Sonic Advance is very good.  

Personally, I think this could be good but I'm troubled that we have no idea who is working on it, so until I hear that I'll remain extremely skeptical.  Specifically, I'm concerned about who is handling the levels designs.  

Also, I think they should have gone full-on nostalgia and gone the MM9 route, with 16-bit style graphics, and BLAST PROCESSING!   Go back to the older character designs for the characters.  Also, this is imperative:  NO IN GAME STORY and NO IN GAME TEXT besides the HUD, credits, etc.   Put that crap in a digital manual for anyone who actually wants to read it.   I don't even want to hear a peep out of Sonic.  No WHEE!! or YA-HOO! or OH! YEAH! voice samples during gameplay, even.  Sonic should be mute, completely and totally.  

Still, I'm not going to write it out for having more modern graphics. Bionic Commando Rearmed had the newer-style graphics, but it wasn't trying to deliberately wash away over a decade of bad mojo, either.    
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Offline Sabre

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« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2010, 03:13:56 PM »
Ill say it now then get flamed.

I love Sonic Adventure 2: Battle for the Gamecube.

*hides*

Offline Smues

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« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2010, 03:38:23 PM »
You shouldn't have to hide Sonic Adventure 2 was a very good game. It had a few large flaws, but it was very good and very fun. Good sound track too (knuckles be damned). Ditto the first game. Amazing how the wheels just completely fell off the franchise after that.
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Offline mellow

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« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2010, 04:23:29 PM »
... but noone chose D) Create the G-Child.

Offline AndrewTS

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« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2010, 06:05:07 PM »
Something I noticed which seems to have coincided with the series starting to slide into decline: Super Sonic is no longer a normal-level gameplay feature, only something that can be used in special levels, which sucks.  There hasn't even been a 2D game since Sonic and Knuckles that allowed you to use Super Sonic whenever. 

Of course, that has also coincided with the games becoming more story-heavy, cinematic, and shitty-friend-y.
The geek shall inherit the earth.

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I gave up watching pro wrestling in favor of something better written, more coherent, and less insulting to my intelligence--girly comic books.

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2010, 09:19:23 PM »
Quote
Sonic 2 is the best of the 2D games (Sonic Rush aside)

Way to go from being so right to so wrong so quickly! :P

Am I the only one who liked Sonic Rush? Granted I didn't play the Blaze stages, but I kind of dug the faux 3D bosses. It was certainly the less wanky of the "new generation" Sonic games.

I will eat all of your dicks if Daniel Bryan ACTUALLY cashes in his MITB at Wrestlemania
7 months and counting...

Offline Venkman

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2010, 04:35:47 AM »
Something I noticed which seems to have coincided with the series starting to slide into decline: Super Sonic is no longer a normal-level gameplay feature, only something that can be used in special levels, which sucks.  There hasn't even been a 2D game since Sonic and Knuckles that allowed you to use Super Sonic whenever. 

Of course, that has also coincided with the games becoming more story-heavy, cinematic, and shitty-friend-y.

I enjoyed Sonic Adventure (I thought it looked good, played well when you weren't Knuckles or Big, and had catchy tunes... I WANNA FLY HIGH!) but the fact you couldn't go SSJ at all unless you were battling Sin seemed like a step backward.

Offline jimmy no nose

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2010, 12:34:44 PM »
I really thought Sonic Unleashed on Wii would have been a great Sonic game if they would have just done it all Hedgehog and left out all those stupid Werehog parts.  Of course that was about 65% of the game, so it wasn't all that good.

Offline Tigger

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2010, 03:22:32 AM »
I hope the bonus levels look like this:


Offline Adam

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2010, 05:24:00 AM »

Offline Tigger

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2010, 09:08:12 AM »
No way... those were the lame. These were pretty cool.


Offline Smues

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2010, 09:43:30 AM »
Sonic 3's bonus stages are my favorite. When I was a kid spent wayyyyyy too much time playing them by connecting s&k to sonic 1.
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Offline treble

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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Coming this Summer
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2010, 09:45:09 AM »
Just think was is possible now.