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Comments that warrant a thread => Sports => Topic started by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 10, 2011, 04:48:31 AM

Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 10, 2011, 04:48:31 AM
Jerry Sloan resigned!

get it done Donnie
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Firmino of the 909 on February 10, 2011, 04:50:14 AM
Not just resigning, but probably retiring.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: wnyxmcneal on February 10, 2011, 05:02:59 AM
Didn't he just sign a extension?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 10, 2011, 05:08:51 AM
He might have been forced out.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Damaramu on February 10, 2011, 05:51:50 AM
He might have been forced out.

This is what I'm wondering. Seems kind of sudden and if it was voluntary I wonder why he wouldn't finish the season out? I mean do they expect someone else to turn it around and win a title this year?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 10, 2011, 06:05:00 AM
He might have been forced out.

Which honestly would be the biggest mistake of O'Connor's career if true. I think Sloan earned the right to ride off into the sunset the way he wanted to go, this crushes me.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Kurt Angle Mark on February 10, 2011, 06:34:32 AM
He might have been forced out.

 Seems kind of sudden and if it was voluntary I wonder why he wouldn't finish the season out? I mean do they expect someone else to turn it around and win a title this year?

According to sources Sloan had enough of Deron Williams and ownership siding with Williams, that is why he is stepping down immediately.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: teke184 on February 10, 2011, 07:18:07 AM
He might have been forced out.

 Seems kind of sudden and if it was voluntary I wonder why he wouldn't finish the season out? I mean do they expect someone else to turn it around and win a title this year?

According to sources Sloan had enough of Deron Williams and ownership siding with Williams, that is why he is stepping down immediately.

I can believe it.

Several sites had claimed Sloan had a meeting with management last night right after the game and came out shaken.  Given that Deron's contract is up in a year or two and he's made noise about leaving, they're probably doing whatever they can to convince him to stay.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 10, 2011, 08:41:50 AM
This is terrible.  I never thought that Deron Williams was the kind of guy who'd piss of a coach like that.  For Sloan to quit after all this time, after he left the team and came back after his wife died, shit must have either been really bad or Sloan just finally said, "fuck it, I'm too old for this shit."  Management was in an impossible position too seeing as how Sloan doesn't have too many years left anyway and Deron is the franchise player.

Need to get the full story but this is just a really unfortunate end to a great coaching career, and the Jazz are like 8 games over .500 too. 

Is it possible Jazz fans might turn on Deron and drive him out of Utah?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: WKU Tops on February 10, 2011, 08:50:17 AM
He might have been forced out.

Which honestly would be the biggest mistake of O'Connor's career if true. I think Sloan earned the right to ride off into the sunset the way he wanted to go, this crushes me.

Yeah, this was unexpected when I saw it on ESPN this afternoon.  I'll miss having Sloan on the bench and I'm glad he was our coach for all these years.  It's a shame he didn't get the title he should've gotten in 1998 (ditto Stockton & Malone), but he still brought me a lot of great memories over the years.  It'll be so weird to see someone else coaching the Jazz since he's the only guy to coach team since I've followed basketball.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Gert on February 10, 2011, 09:24:39 AM
I really don't know what to say I got about four texts in a row, mostly from casual fans.

Deron has seemed pissed on the court A TON this year. Mad at every call that didn't go his way, much more than last year.

Al Jefferson has slowed down the offense a ton with his post up game, which isn't always a bad thing, but they do not have dynamic finishers and Al's passing is mediocre at best.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the locker room, its obvious that Deron seems to dislike AK, and I'm guessing if there was a faction it would be D-Will, CJ Miles and Ronnie Price to a lesser extent. As much as I have shat on Heyward when he's deserved it, I am 99 percent confident I have not seen CJ Miles EVER pass Heyward the ball, especially on a fast break.

I am so torn because I wish Corbin would have had a shot at the Pacers job, and I think he'll be a great coach, but this just seems like a sad ending.

Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Vitamin X on February 10, 2011, 10:45:06 AM
Well now I know where Nate McMillan is going next year.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Baby Shoes on February 10, 2011, 10:59:19 AM
I was shocked when I saw this today, given the extension the other day.  It was weird because I watched the end of Bulls-Jazz and there seemed to be some tension at the end of the game.  I usually really like Deron Williams game, but it seemed to me he did a couple things that cost the Jazz the game at the end.  Didn't expect this.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 10, 2011, 12:49:21 PM
I think this will split the fanbase a ton. Utah has a strong sense that people should be loyal to the team, so there's going to be a group that think Sloan's "pussying out" as a guy in the line at Subway said to his friend, I had to laugh at anyone calling Jerry Fuckin' Sloan a pussy. I think most will turn on D-Will, however, especially if the Jazz go into more of a nose dive than they have been. Like G-Coleman said, Williams did some things that actively cost Utah in the end. Jerry stuck around to rebuild after Stockton and Malone retired, how many coaches would have done that after the great run they had in the 90's?

I can see that the front end needs to keep Williams happy, since he's a franchise player and that Sloan can't have too many years still in the gas tank, but honestly, if this turns into a coup situation, and should the event arise that Williams leaves anyways, he'll be the most hated man in Utah every time he comes back. The fans booed Derek Fisher for leaving to treat his daughter... the crowd would rise to near riotous levels for Deron.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Firmino of the 909 on February 10, 2011, 12:57:40 PM
That anyone would call Sloan a pussy goes a long way to illustrating how dumb the Jazz fanbase is. If it didn't convince anyone when they booed Fisher. No offense.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 10, 2011, 01:05:12 PM
I don't doubt that Williams will still leave.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Gert on February 10, 2011, 02:26:44 PM
I wish it was not a home game on Friday.... I think the "Sloan is a pussy" crowd is as minimal as are the D Fish haters, but please let's not go there again!



Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 10, 2011, 02:37:45 PM
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/02/10/sloan-williams/?ls=iref:nbahpt1 (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/02/10/sloan-williams/?ls=iref:nbahpt1)

good article
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 10, 2011, 02:39:23 PM
That anyone would call Sloan a pussy goes a long way to illustrating how dumb the Jazz fanbase is. If it didn't convince anyone when they booed Fisher. No offense.

I concur, lots of the fans here are the kind that can't look objectively at a situation, on the court or off. Boozer was the bad guy for leaving town, there's a general "abandonment" issues with the players and the fanbase. How could they leave us? Leave beautiful Utah? Same thing with Fisher, I was genuinely outraged when that happened. I nearly didn't want to be a Jazz fan anymore because of the actions of the mindless mob.

I think Gert is right, as of now, that it seems like alot of people are "wait and see" if the Jazz improve, but like I said, if the team continues it's slide... D-Will's going to be more of a pariah than Big Green.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 10, 2011, 02:45:19 PM
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/02/10/sloan-williams/?ls=iref:nbahpt1 (http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/02/10/sloan-williams/?ls=iref:nbahpt1)

good article

I'm such a baby, that brought a tear to my eye.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Gert on February 10, 2011, 02:51:33 PM
And as an opposite side of the coin: JA Adande

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=sloanadande-110210 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=sloanadande-110210)


I am legitimately concerned with this franchise, its not like they can pull in premium free agents. I am guessing the worst case scenario pulls away their coach and best player.

I think the truth lies somewhere between the two stories, Jerry Sloan wouldn't quit due to one player, but there was a lot of writing on the wall on the court, and clearly Deron Williams was not happy and keeping their franchise player was probably more important than keeping their 70 year old coach.

Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: wnyxmcneal on February 10, 2011, 04:12:48 PM
This is terrible.

Jerry Sloan deserved the kind of farewell sendoff that Bobby Cox got, not resigning in the middle of February.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: WKU Tops on February 11, 2011, 03:01:42 PM
Well there are some reports that Sloan decided to leave so that the Jazz would have some shot at resigning Williams, since he was likely not going to do it with Sloan at the helm.  Throw me in the group of concerned fans.  It's frustrating not being able to lure star free agents to Utah, but then again, it IS Utah.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 11, 2011, 04:28:24 PM
I hate to be a Grumpy Gus, but I think this is really going to lead us to be a lottery level team from here on out. We can't draw big name free agents (Boozer was the biggest deal we've done in AGES, and that was forever ago it seems), so we'll have to luck out in the draft. Sloan was the thing that kept us competitive after the Golden Era of Stockton and Malone, I don't think that the team gets better and I think Deron bolts for greener pastures anyways leaving us with no real go to guy.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Vitamin X on February 11, 2011, 05:03:28 PM
The Seattle Jazz
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Rendclaw on February 12, 2011, 01:40:52 AM
I would laugh my balls off if this situation lead to the Jazz moving to Seattle.

I blame this on the new ownership. I was listening to Rome and someone emailed and said if Larry miller were still alive, this never would have happened, a take that I agree 100% with.

Deron Williams is one of the best point guards in the league sure, but if he is going to bust out in 2012, then it doesn't matter what management does to keep him, ala Cleveland and LeBron. When something like this happens, its incumbent upon ownership to sit both parties down and work it out. I'm not saying that didn't take place, but when ownership sides with the player when they are having issues, it hardly ever ends well. As much as I think that Sloan was an insufferable hardass, he did deserve better than this considering his body of work.

I lost a lot of respect for the Utah fanbase with the Derek Fisher situation. It was so ridiculous and over the top, it still makes me shake my head.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 12, 2011, 01:54:45 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that if Larry were alive this wouldn't have gone down like this.

The cruz was O'Connor let too many guys walk away this past off season. Williams was supposedly really close to Kyle Korver, and losing him and Wesley Matthews was probably a bigger blow to him than Boozer walking away.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jazz wound up moving down the line, the general fanbase is fair weather, if we don't have a team that is competitive, I doubt people show up for the games.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 02:00:47 AM
I'm of the school of mind that Sloan probably should have been disposed of after Malone and Stockton. Yes, I'm ignoring the fact that Sloan was one of the only selling points of the Utah Jazz. Just think his hardass routine became less and less effective through the years. I'm also of the school of mind that Sloan's teams underachieved each year.

I really can't blame Jazz ownership for siding with the player in this case. Even though their fans won't like it, I just think it's time to start over. Hell, i'd probably look the trade Deron Williams (he ain't coming back) to get something back. The Sloan era was very successful, but yielded no championships.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 02:19:20 AM
I'm of the school of mind that Sloan probably should have been disposed of after Malone and Stockton. Yes, I'm ignoring the fact that Sloan was one of the only selling points of the Utah Jazz. Just think his hardass routine became less and less effective through the years. I'm also of the school of mind that Sloan's teams underachieved each year.

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0#ws)
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Ripper on February 12, 2011, 06:14:21 AM
That, sir, was the perfect use of that clip.

I would love to hear even the slightest bit of rational behind saying the Jazz UNDERACHIEVED with Sloan at the helm.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 06:37:36 AM
Easy: the West was wide open for a decade after Magic retired and you have Malone and Stockon and make it to the Finals only twice? Not to mention losing both of your appearances. Jazz always choked in the playoffs under Sloan. And while people say he's the best coach over the past 25 years or so, I don't see it. You don't have two hall of famers and not win a championship. Longevity is extremely overrated.

And yes the franchise has underachieved since their Western Conference Finals appearance. There is no reason why this team has been bad on the road for the past couple seasons. Before Boozer walked, a Boozer/Williams core should be good enough for deep playoff appearances. They have absolutely dogshit against the Lakers for a long while. That's all on the coach. IMO, it was time for Sloan to bounce.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 06:46:23 AM
Utah win totals since 1989:

51
55
54
55
47
53
60
55
64
62
*37
55
53
44
47
42
26
41
51
54
48
53
30^

Win over 50 games 12 times and have nothing to show for it? And it's not like the Jazz overachieved for that span. They were probably the most consistent regular season team for a good number of years. I don't subscribe to keeping a coach because he wins in the regular season. The fact that he couldn't win a championship really hurts him in my eyes.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Byron The Bulp on February 12, 2011, 06:48:33 AM
It's not Sloan's fault that Karl Malone was the biggest choker in the history of professional sports.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 12, 2011, 06:50:23 AM
It's tough to win without the best player in the league.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 06:53:30 AM
Sure, but the best player in the league was in the Eastern Conference during the heyday of the Stockton/Malone Jazz.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 12, 2011, 06:55:39 AM
And they lost twice against his team.

Hakeem was pretty good too.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 12, 2011, 06:58:40 AM
You are also forgetting that the year after Stockton and Malone left he almost got a team with Andrei Kirilenko as the only viable offensive weapon into the playoffs. The teams Utah lost to in the Finals also had two Hall of Famers, one of which is the Best Player to Ever Play the Game, with arguably a better supporting cast around them. You can blame Sloan if he's mismanaging the game, or if guys just aren't ready to play, but those are two things you can't say about Sloan. He drew up plays, got his guys in position to win games, it's just that Micheal Jordan > Karl Malone.

Looking around you can't say that other coaches "Outcoached" Jerry. Maybe this year players finally tuned him out, that might have happened. His old school play defense and execute the pick and roll to death, it's not flashy, but it works. Like I said, it was the front end that dropped the ball here, let Korver walk, let Wesley Matthews walk, that's not on Sloan, and Deron's frustrations with the flow of the offense wouldn't be there if he had those guys with him, since they could have picked up the slack more for Al Jefferson's slogging their game down.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 07:01:27 AM
What other excuses can people make for Sloan before everyone runs out of them:

Barkley was a monster in 1993
The Trailblazers were in the way
Shawn Kemp kept us away from the Finals

And they even won 60 games one year and lost in the FIRST ROUND. But his teams always overachieve they say. Bullshit.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 07:10:48 AM
You are also forgetting that the year after Stockton and Malone left he almost got a team with Andrei Kirilenko as the only viable offensive weapon into the playoffs. The teams Utah lost to in the Finals also had two Hall of Famers, one of which is the Best Player to Ever Play the Game, with arguably a better supporting cast around them. You can blame Sloan if he's mismanaging the game, or if guys just aren't ready to play, but those are two things you can't say about Sloan. He drew up plays, got his guys in position to win games, it's just that Micheal Jordan > Karl Malone.

Looking around you can't say that other coaches "Outcoached" Jerry. Maybe this year players finally tuned him out, that might have happened. His old school play defense and execute the pick and roll to death, it's not flashy, but it works. Like I said, it was the front end that dropped the ball here, let Korver walk, let Wesley Matthews walk, that's not on Sloan, and Deron's frustrations with the flow of the offense wouldn't be there if he had those guys with him, since they could have picked up the slack more for Al Jefferson's slogging their game down.

I'm not disputing that he was a good coach. Anyone that survives that long in pro sports knows what he's doing. And I think it's fair to say that the Jazz were pretty unfortunate (I'm really just looking at the Stockon/Malone years as he hasn't has a teams with talent like those two since they left) because they had to fight through a pretty wide open Western Conference. Sometimes the ball bounces the other way.
 
But I don't think it's unfair to question that his teams in the 90's routinely underachieved until 1997. Teams that consistently win over 50 games and get bounced early in the playoffs earn the underachiever title. In 1994 they won 60 games and lost in the first round. One can argue that the Jazz were the best Western Conference team of the 90's. Then why only two Finals appearances to show for it. I won't discredit Sloan for losing to Jordan, but I will fault him for coming up short with superior teams the years before. That's the way I see it.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 12, 2011, 07:22:46 AM
I think in the West the only team that top to bottom the Jazz were superior to and they didn't beat was probably those Kemp-Payton Sonics. Every other team, mainly those Rockets teams had ideal match up problems for the Jazz.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 07:35:36 AM
I'm of the school of mind that Sloan probably should have been disposed of after Malone and Stockton. Yes, I'm ignoring the fact that Sloan was one of the only selling points of the Utah Jazz. Just think his hardass routine became less and less effective through the years. I'm also of the school of mind that Sloan's teams underachieved each year.

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0#ws)

Do you have any facts to back your assertions up Roy, or will your response some other played out Adam Sandler movie quote?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 08:36:10 AM
I'm of the school of mind that Sloan probably should have been disposed of after Malone and Stockton. Yes, I'm ignoring the fact that Sloan was one of the only selling points of the Utah Jazz. Just think his hardass routine became less and less effective through the years. I'm also of the school of mind that Sloan's teams underachieved each year.

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0#ws)

Do you have any facts to back your assertions up Roy, or will your response some other played out Adam Sandler movie quote?

Name me a coach who would have done better with the Jazz after Stockton/Malone were gone, since he should have been disposed of at that point, right?

I mean, if you're seriously going to argue that any of the Deron Williams/Boozer teams were better than San Antonio, LA, Dallas or Phoenix in a given year I don't even know what to say.  They were clearly always 4th or 5th on the pecking order come playoff time

The Stockton/Malone era has been suitably discussed already.  Maybe they didn't play up to their potential in the playoffs every year, but were they ever really the best team in the league?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 08:41:54 AM
I'd draw a comparison between Sloan and Rick Adelman as far as coaches who started in the 80's and lasted into this decade.  Almost always in the playoffs, teams consistently good, got a lot out of very talented teams (which shouldn't be brushed aside because a lot of coaches are handed talented teams and fumble it or can't sustain more than a year or two of great play)

Neither ever won a championship, both were close in making the finals a few times and the WCF several times, maybe the ball bounces a different way they win one, but they never had the best player or the best overall team in a given year (I say that with the caveat that the Kings should have beat the Lakers that one year and probably would have won in the finals, even though the Lakers had the two best players on the court)
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 08:50:20 AM
Mike D'antoni could have probably replicated Sloan's latest success with Jazz. It would actually make the Jazz interesting to watch.

I think a fresh face could have done wonders for the Jazz after Malone left for the Lakers in 2003. It's pointless to speculate what a coach could have done, but I will say that maybe a younger coach could have gotten on the same page with D-Will.

I just think a coach runs his course over time. The NBA Sloan has known passed him by long ago. For better or worse, being a stubborn hardass in today's NBA just doesn't work. Coaches have to have the ability to relate to their players. That's the reality.

If I were the Jazz, I would have let Sloan quietly go after about 2004. Get a fresh face in and get past the Stockon/Malone years that still seemingly loom over the franchise to these days. I don't think it's good business in sports to keep guys for sentimental reasons. Change is good. I just think the Jazz waited too long to dump him and now people are pissed. I bet Jazz fans would have taken Sloan leaving much better in 2005 than now.

Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 09:05:08 AM
I just think a coach runs his course over time. The NBA Sloan has known passed him by long ago. For better or worse, being a stubborn hardass in today's NBA just doesn't work. Coaches have to have the ability to relate to their players. That's the reality.

Stubborn hardass really isn't an accurate depiction of Jerry Sloan.  If demanding your team plays defense and runs the offense properly is stubborn then I don't even know.  I know that that isn't necessarily en vogue in the NBA today, but whatever.  This wasn't a guy who was ever too stubborn for his own good, if he was he wouldn't have won every single year and his teams would have quit on him.  That never happened.  Guys like Sloan aren't the problem with the NBA, players with out of check egos who care more about individuality than the game are.  And I'm not talking about Deron Williams because I don't think he's a bad guy or a villain here at all, but fuck this "new NBA" individual players are more important than the team paradigm.  No matter what era we're in basketball is the same game and it takes the same things to win. 
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 09:10:08 AM
I mean fuck, Sloan has been around the game for 40 years, and basketball is still the name of the game.  It's wouldn't be a matter of him being able to relate to basketball players, it's would be a matter of shallow spoiled kids with no respect for the game being unable to relate to and appreciate a man with great wisdom about the sport.....IF that was even the case, which is what you say, not me
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Vitamin X on February 12, 2011, 09:16:32 AM
Guys like Sloan aren't the problem with the NBA, players with out of check egos who care more about individuality than the game are.  And I'm not talking about Deron Williams because I don't think he's a bad guy or a villain here at all, but fuck this "new NBA" individual players are more important than the team paradigm.  No matter what era we're in basketball is the same game and it takes the same things to win.  
This x10000000000. It's definitely making the NBA harder and harder to watch and follow.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: #sorrynotsorry on February 12, 2011, 09:33:10 AM
I just think a coach runs his course over time. The NBA Sloan has known passed him by long ago. For better or worse, being a stubborn hardass in today's NBA just doesn't work. Coaches have to have the ability to relate to their players. That's the reality.

Stubborn hardass really isn't an accurate depiction of Jerry Sloan.  If demanding your team plays defense and runs the offense properly is stubborn then I don't even know.  I know that that isn't necessarily en vogue in the NBA today, but whatever.  This wasn't a guy who was ever too stubborn for his own good, if he was he wouldn't have won every single year and his teams would have quit on him.  That never happened.  Guys like Sloan aren't the problem with the NBA, players with out of check egos who care more about individuality than the game are.  And I'm not talking about Deron Williams because I don't think he's a bad guy or a villain here at all, but fuck this "new NBA" individual players are more important than the team paradigm.  No matter what era we're in basketball is the same game and it takes the same things to win. 

If you are a talent like Deron Williams wouldn't you be frustrated running the same old ass sets and plays from the 1980's. Especially when you know it doesn't work? And the coach isn't one receptive to change? While player's ego have ballooned due to inflating salaries, coaches need to be able to get their team to buy into what your selling them. Even a coach like Phil Jackson are wise enough to acquiesce to the demands of his players. The Lakers really haven't been a strict triangle team for a number of teams now. Sloan stuck to what he knew until it eventually got him run out.

Now if you are the Jazz who's more important? Your budding twenty something point guard or your 68 year old coach has been around for a generation? There is nothing wrong with a coach like Sloan, but with the small market Jazz not even afforded the slimmest margin of error is on the verge of being an also ran for years to come instead of making the move that needed to be done years ago. Now instead of a rebuilding process that's on your terms, you are basically operating with a gun to your head. The slightest miscalculation could be fatal. Unfortunately some franchises are so scared of change, it hurts them down the line.

I take nothing away from Sloan and his accomplishments but it got to the point where it was perceived that he was bigger than the franchise. It's a total mess that could have been avoided.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Mr. S£im Citrus on February 12, 2011, 09:53:17 AM
Is there an offensive system that was invented after the eighties that I haven't heard of?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 12, 2011, 09:55:18 AM
Is there an offensive system that was invented after the eighties that I haven't heard of?

Isolation every single time down the floor?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 10:08:36 AM
lol

I guess you could say D'Antoni brought a new system to the NBA, sort of, but run n' gun had been around in different forms for decades in the NBA, ABA and college ball.  It was out of style in the NBA because the knock was you couldn't win with it.....and well, D'Antoni hasn't really done anything to dispel that myth
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 12, 2011, 10:10:19 AM
D'Antoni actually runs 1970s eurostyle ABA ball so that's outdated too.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Firmino of the 909 on February 12, 2011, 10:24:55 AM
Nah, D'Antoni's no defense ever system from the 80's needed a rebirth. I'd call it "new."
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Firmino of the 909 on February 12, 2011, 10:29:01 AM
Also, yes, the early to mid-90's Jazz were way too good to not make a Finals. All the Malone/Stockton Jazz teams were well balanced and had strong depth throughout their roster. Everyone could chip in points and hard defensive play. They retooled twice before getting in. Both incarnations of the Jazz before retooling probably had more talent than the two that did get in! How isn't that underachieving?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 12, 2011, 10:42:10 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1992.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1992.html)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1997.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1997.html)

The only upgrade on the earlier team is Mark Eaton over Ostertag.

You started Jeff Malone and Hornacek gave you everything J. Malone could only with the added bonus that he had the ability to spread the floor with his range.

Going off my memory Blue Edwards started at the SF spot and Russell again gave you everything Blue could with the ability to more consistently knock down the three.

Howard Eisley is light years ahead of Delaney Rudd.

The teams both had balance, but that's due to the system Sloan put into place, and at every spot top to bottom the team was more talented across the board during their runs they actually got to the Finals.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Vitamin X on February 12, 2011, 10:44:38 AM
The Jazz could never handle Clyde Drexler, that's what. Then they couldn't handle Michael Jordan. They were still a great team and saying they underachieved is kinda dumb. The Trailblazers, Rockets, and Bulls were from top to bottom more well rounded, deep teams with incredible coaching and hall of fame talent for the Jazz to go through. Name a great Jazz player from that time period that isn't Stockton or Malone. Jeff Hornacek? Bryon Russell? Greg fucking Ostertag?

Sloan was a great coach to stick to his strengths in and hide his weaknesses well. And he still stuck around, rebuilt the team, and kept them a playoff team. Even in the three years he missed the playoffs, two of those years he had them at .500 or better.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 12, 2011, 10:55:12 AM
Really the only other Hall of Famer I think that might be on the Jazz that played in the 90's is Eaton (and he's borderline).
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 10:58:20 AM
I see that Maz already kind of made the point, but I went to the trouble to type this so fuck it

Those early 90's teams were basically Karl, Stockton, Jeff Malone and a bunch of indistinguishable role players.  Mark Eaton was on his last legs at that point.  

They lost the WCF in 6 games to the Blazers in 92, a much deeper and more talented team.  

They lost to the Sonics 3-2 in 93, a team that could match up player for player with Stockton/Malone and was also much deeper and more talented with guys like Ricky Pierce, Eddie Johnson, Nate McMillan, Michael Cage and Derrick McKey.

In 94 they improved their roster by bringing in Hornacek and Tom Chambers, made it to the WCF and lost to the eventual champion Rockets 4-1.  I can see the case for underachieving this year in not making it a closer series, but Olajuwon was the best player in the game on both ends of the floor at this point.

95 they lost Jeff Malone and Chambers was basically done, won 60 games anyway, and lost again to the Rockets, 3-2 this time.  This is considered one of their bigger disappointments, but the Rockets were a team that came together after the Drexler trade and stormed into the playoffs.  Rockets had a better team and won the title again.

96 they lost to the Sonics in the WCF in 7.  The Sonics won 64 games that year, were yet again were more talented top to bottom, and gave the 72 win Bulls a run for their money once they decided to put Payton on Jordan

I could go on, but basically they never lost to a team they clearly should have beat.  Almost every team they lost to either went to the finals or won the title.  To call a team underachievers they have to be losing to teams that they are better than.  The Jazz never had great depth in the talent department, it was Stockton, Malone, J Malone/Horny and a bunch of solid role players.  Most of the teams they lost to had players coming off the bench who could have been stars on other teams and/or went on to become all-stars
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Firmino of the 909 on February 12, 2011, 10:59:15 AM
You don't need three HOF players to win a championship. I'm not anti-Sloan or anything, I'm just saying, those teams were all pretty good and he should have won a championship with one of them.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Brooklyn Zoo on February 12, 2011, 11:11:32 AM
But you more or less need a top 3 player. Malone or Stockton were neither.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Wizard of Maz on February 12, 2011, 11:13:59 AM
They were pretty good, but you are telling me a team that had Blue Edwards as a viable third threat is a Championship level team?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 03:51:16 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Amfl9JHSiQ_T2sA7pM1Rhma8vLYF?slug=ap-sloanresignation-malone (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Amfl9JHSiQ_T2sA7pM1Rhma8vLYF?slug=ap-sloanresignation-malone)

Quote
“They changed the floor back to old school. They changed the uniform back to old school. Somebody tell the damn players to start playing like old school,”

Karl Malone is awesome.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Mr. S£im Citrus on February 12, 2011, 03:54:18 PM
I remember hearing him say that during the game last night. I also liked how he basically said, "Not to make this about me, but I'm looking to get into coaching, too."

And, by "liked," I mean, lolwut?
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on February 12, 2011, 03:57:13 PM
lol, Malone would be a terrible coach
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Gert on February 12, 2011, 05:15:38 PM
Karl would get the players focused on basketball, and have them forget about unimportant details.......like illegitimate kids!

The "95 Jazz was the most disappointing to me, but even then the Rockets won the title, so I don't know where the exact historical perspective can be.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: GAYGENT OF OBLIVION on February 16, 2011, 11:43:41 PM
Guys like Sloan aren't the problem with the NBA, players with out of check egos who care more about individuality than the game are.  And I'm not talking about Deron Williams because I don't think he's a bad guy or a villain here at all, but fuck this "new NBA" individual players are more important than the team paradigm.  No matter what era we're in basketball is the same game and it takes the same things to win. 
This x10000000000. It's definitely making the NBA harder and harder to watch and follow.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I've cared more about the NBA the past couple season than I have since the Pacers were actually good, and it's based primarily on all the strong personalities and individual talent out there right now.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Ripper on February 17, 2011, 04:02:55 AM
1: Karl Malone should shut the fuck up. His skill was not getting injured and a midrange jump shot. Fundamentally, most NBA forwards are better than him. He as a choking turnover machine that played no defense. How the fuck are you all time in turnovers at the POWER FORWARD position. The Success's of AK-47, Carlos Boozer, and Paul Milsap kinda exposed Malone as the system forward he was anyway. If oldschool means all the forwards should forget how to dribble, not keep the ball high so everyone can strip it, and have no back to the basket game, then I would rather them not play like Malone's old school.

2: Basketball has been built around the individual since the 60's. You get individuals who are better than the rest, build around them, and play an offense that utilizes their talents. If the Lakers didn't have Magic, they wouldn't have run that offense. If the Celtics didn't have Bird, they wouldn't have drafted some of the players they got to go with that offense and defense. Thats how basketball is built.

Right now Deron Williams has been running a pick and roll team with a guy in Jefferson that isn't suited for the Pick and Roll. I love Sloan, but he should have adjusted or Utah shouldn't have picked up Al Jefferson.

Yes one individual isn't going to win a championship, true, it takes a sum of all the parts, but a individual that you can build around is a prerequisite.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Cool, Bad, & Handsome on February 26, 2011, 10:19:49 AM
I don't understand why they got rid of Sloan if they were going to trade Deron anyway.

Also since all of this went down Hayward has started to slash more towards the basket and he's throwing it down with some power. I didn't know he had it in him and it doesn't look as awkward as I thought it would.
Title: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Byron The Bulp on February 26, 2011, 10:23:38 AM
Ripper ethering Karl Malone at every available opportunity is one of my favorite sports folder things
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on July 24, 2019, 08:11:03 AM
Ripper ethering Karl Malone at every available opportunity is one of my favorite sports folder things
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Baby Shoes on July 24, 2019, 08:38:02 AM
Was thinking he died with this bumped because I had just read recently he doesn’t go out in public anymore due to his rapidly declining health
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Smues on July 24, 2019, 12:48:28 PM
Ripper or Jerry Sloan?
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: AA484 on July 24, 2019, 01:01:13 PM
Lol
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: cobainwasmurdered on July 24, 2019, 01:10:02 PM
Ripper ethering Karl Malone at every available opportunity is one of my favorite sports folder things

If you're going to bump old as fuck threads you need to actually have something to say (like when 909 bumped the american beauty thread) we don't need to go back to you bumping old threads all over the place.
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Cool, Bad, & Handsome on July 24, 2019, 01:14:33 PM
You don't need three HOF players to win a championship. I'm not anti-Sloan or anything, I'm just saying, those teams were all pretty good and he should have won a championship with one of them.

idk history disagrees
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Cool, Bad, & Handsome on July 24, 2019, 01:15:12 PM
WTF THIS THREAD IS OLD
Title: Re: Jerry Sloan out as coach of Jazz
Post by: Amy pats fan on July 25, 2019, 05:46:03 AM
Ripper ethering Karl Malone at every available opportunity is one of my favorite sports folder things

If you're going to bump old as fuck threads you need to actually have something to say (like when 909 bumped the american beauty thread) we don't need to go back to you bumping old threads all over the place.

I don't plan on making it a habit again......but NBA news is kind of dead right now and I thought looking back at an old thread would be fun.  Also, I miss Ripper shitting on Karl Malone every chance he got.....