Author Topic: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension  (Read 10855 times)

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Offline Damaramu

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ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« on: October 16, 2017, 08:51:27 AM »
I didn't see an ROH thread so I just wanted to say that I got tickets to see ROH in OKC. Second row too baby. Close enough to feel the wind from the Meltzer Driver.
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Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 10:25:16 AM »
there was an old ROH thread but I'm not going to search for it and it was fairly old. They deserve a new thread as they're doing well with all the Bullet Club/NJPW stuff.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 10:44:10 AM »
Dalton Castle should beat Cody for the title, but knowing ROH, he'll lose then be sent back down the card.
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Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 11:29:50 AM »
Then he'll get it, flop from bad booking after becoming a "fighting champion," and get signed to NXT.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 11:37:41 AM »
Now that I have ROH VOD who can recommend an ROH ppv from 2011 to 2016? October 16 that is.
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Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 11:40:59 AM »
I gave up on ROH during the Davey Richards era and was already checking out before then so I can't reccomend anything. The company peaked during the feud with with CZW to me and really fell off somewhere during all the faction warfare after that and when Gabe left with Adam Pearce taking over and the booking style totally changing it was never the same. Too many big stars leaving and the guys who replaced them were nowhere near as good

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2017, 11:47:34 AM »
They're pretty good now. But how long is this dead period you refer to? What years?
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Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 01:24:11 AM »
2008 is the last year that ROH felt like ROH. 2010 had a few highlights (Steen/Generico feud, mostly), but by 2011 it was by the numbers. That was when the ME style became nothing but King's Road Lite, leading to the current "KICK OUT OF EVERYTHING" match structure. There's been a few spurts here and there and the company is doing its best ever financially, but the soul died a long time ago.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 05:53:00 AM »
The New Japan/ROH relationship has felt like a "tail wagging the dog" situation for a while now; New Japan is basically using ROH to spotlight their stars to American fans and Japanese fans don't seem to give much of a shit about most of the ROH roster.  If New Japan can get a bigger foothold in the US on their talent alone, that deal is off and ROH is fucked.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 06:02:42 AM »
Njpw is the bigger company and roh needs them more than they ever needed roh so I'd say njpw has been pretty generous given how much top talent has worked in roh and the number of Japan dates guys get even if they aren't as over. Njpw probably won't just unilaterally cut ties with roh one day unless roh really fuvks up. Then roh would be in a ton of trouble.

Offline Hawk 34

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 06:15:06 AM »
I'd say eventually they'll just merge into a singular promotion, essentially what they are already.  We mentioned this in chat but it bears repeating that the fact in 2017 the top talent in the promotion not affiliated with Bullet Club are the same talent from the early era (Daniels, Lethal, Cabana and Briscoes) and outside of that, who else are your stars from this generation to hang your hat on?  Castle?

Offline Epic for the Summer

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 06:18:43 AM »
They were doing fine with Elgin, ACH, reDragon, and Cole (though he eventually joined BC but was pretty much one of their top draws beforehand) and a few others but they found better deals elsewhere.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 06:36:29 AM »
I'd say eventually they'll just merge into a singular promotion, essentially what they are already.  We mentioned this in chat but it bears repeating that the fact in 2017 the top talent in the promotion not affiliated with Bullet Club are the same talent from the early era (Daniels, Lethal, Cabana and Briscoes) and outside of that, who else are your stars from this generation to hang your hat on?  Castle?

CHEESEBURGER
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Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 06:59:30 AM »
BIG DOG RHETT TITUS

Offline HSJ

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 08:53:35 AM »
REALITY TV STAR KENNY KING


DTF

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2017, 09:10:17 AM »
I'd say eventually they'll just merge into a singular promotion, essentially what they are already.  We mentioned this in chat but it bears repeating that the fact in 2017 the top talent in the promotion not affiliated with Bullet Club are the same talent from the early era (Daniels, Lethal, Cabana and Briscoes) and outside of that, who else are your stars from this generation to hang your hat on?  Castle?

If by merge you mean NJPW takes who they want and everyone else is fucked maybe but otherwise no way. So much dead weight that NJPW would never be interested in. The only thing ROH has to offer that NJPW can't get from other indies right now is their sinclair network exposure and the more exposure NJPW gets the less that will matter.

I'd still rather NJPW focus on Asia or even Australia than North America where are seriously underdeveloped markets ripe for expansion.







But uh yeah ROH thread... FUCK DAVEY RICHARDS. No single wrestler did more to ruin ROH for me.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2017, 09:48:18 AM »
I think Davey Richards moment in the spotlight was when I wasn't watching wrestling anymore. Why does everyone hate him?
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Offline Brooklyn Zoo

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 09:56:27 AM »
I think Davey Richards moment in the spotlight was when I wasn't watching wrestling anymore. Why does everyone hate him?


Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2017, 10:04:55 AM »
He was the first guy I noticed doing the terrible spot Seth does in some big matches where he rolls through a super plex into another plex immediately. I've seen Richards do it into a suplex to the floor and be up almost right away doing spots like nothing happened. His whole persona was awful and he never got that wrestling was a work.

He, Edwards,  O'Reilly,  fish, strong and some others really turned me off roh. And  I've never had any desire to go back.

Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2017, 10:53:31 AM »
Richards at his best was one of the top junior heavyweight talents in the world. The problem is that his best was before he was given the god push and his shortcomings were made all the worse when he no longer had guys like AmDrag, Daniels, or KENTA to cover for them. He's basically a "serious wrestler" e-fed character from 2003 come to life.

It's really a shame, too, because he was so damn good when he was the disrespectful heel. Once he became I AM HONOR AND FIGHTING SPIRIT he became worthless.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2017, 11:12:38 AM »
Well God damn guys. I like ROH now, the weekly TV show entertains me.
But I'm beginning to feel like it's somehow wrong to like it. I'm also pissed I missed out on apparently a great era.
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Offline Epic for the Summer

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2017, 02:49:04 PM »
Xavier is still the worst ROH champ in history and it pains me to say as he's a Queens guy. He's followed shortly by Homicide. #3 would probably be Jerry Lynn's "Randy The Ram" reign in 2009.

Offline Hawk 34

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2017, 03:08:01 PM »
Well God damn guys. I like ROH now, the weekly TV show entertains me.
But I'm beginning to feel like it's somehow wrong to like it. I'm also pissed I missed out on apparently a great era.

Don’t let these people confuse you!  Most of this is just about people (myself included) who got older and bitter about dumb wrestling. A lot of it comes from nostalgia and resentment that things just aren’t what they used to be. 

The product is still enjoyable and filled with emerging talent and stocked with veterans who can still perform at a high level. 

I went to the Global Wars event last weekend and while I didn’t know half the talent involved or really know any of the current stories in detail,  the show was still highly entertaining and the crowd was every bit as enthused as they were in the glory days.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2017, 03:54:47 AM »
no one should feel bad about liking something just because other people don't like it anymore...especially a pro wrestling fan.

Like what you like man.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2017, 04:03:15 AM »
Maybe feel bad was the wrong word. But it feels like I'm liking an inferior product compared to what was before. Now I'm kicking myself for being out of it at the time of it's "Golden Age" and missing out on so much. I wish they'd get the damn classic DVDs back up on the ringside membership.

However, they did put up a 3-way on YouTube with Bryan Danielson/Kenny Omega/Tyler Black in it so that was pretty cool. It was blue short tight and shorter hair Kenny but he was still good.

Was Bryan Danielson sold as a killer when he was there? Because the story of the match honestly felt like Kenny and Seth trying to beat Danielson but him just smacking them around unless they could double team him.
I watched RAW. I thought it sucked. The usual problems and such.

Offline Hawk 34

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 04:09:48 AM »
Maybe feel bad was the wrong word. But it feels like I'm liking an inferior product compared to what was before. Now I'm kicking myself for being out of it at the time of it's "Golden Age" and missing out on so much. I wish they'd get the damn classic DVDs back up on the ringside membership.

However, they did put up a 3-way on YouTube with Bryan Danielson/Kenny Omega/Tyler Black in it so that was pretty cool. It was blue short tight and shorter hair Kenny but he was still good.

Was Bryan Danielson sold as a killer when he was there? Because the story of the match honestly felt like Kenny and Seth trying to beat Danielson but him just smacking them around unless they could double team him.


Essentially at the end, he was treated as far superior entity than any other wrestler not just as the best wrestler but as a brawler especially the Morishima feud where the intent appeared to be to legit hurt each other and they succeeded at that.   There’s not really a negative mark in Danielson in ROH unless you have issue with intentionally hour long matches, a staple of that era but even then all those broadways varied wildly so it wasn’t just the same shit again and again.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2017, 04:13:12 AM »
I remember getting the Triple Threat and Round Robin Challenge VHS tapes from RF Video when I was in high school. The guy I was drawn to the most was Christopher Daniels and then Lo Ki. I loved Danielson but the was third on the list for me. Man how wrong I turned out to be.
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Offline Epic for the Summer

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2017, 04:28:35 AM »
Hell, Paul London was my favorite indy wrestler from 2002 until he signed with WWE. His matches with AJ and Danielson were awesome. He'd probably be a bigger star if he didn't have such a big mouth and weird personality behind the scenes.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2017, 08:20:08 AM »
The wife and I are getting tickets to Supercard of Honor in New Orleans WM weekend. Anyone else going to be there?
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Offline HSJ

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2017, 10:05:09 AM »
Maybe feel bad was the wrong word. But it feels like I'm liking an inferior product compared to what was before. Now I'm kicking myself for being out of it at the time of it's "Golden Age" and missing out on so much. I wish they'd get the damn classic DVDs back up on the ringside membership.

However, they did put up a 3-way on YouTube with Bryan Danielson/Kenny Omega/Tyler Black in it so that was pretty cool. It was blue short tight and shorter hair Kenny but he was still good.

Was Bryan Danielson sold as a killer when he was there? Because the story of the match honestly felt like Kenny and Seth trying to beat Danielson but him just smacking them around unless they could double team him.


Essentially at the end, he was treated as far superior entity than any other wrestler not just as the best wrestler but as a brawler especially the Morishima feud where the intent appeared to be to legit hurt each other and they succeeded at that.   There’s not really a negative mark in Danielson in ROH unless you have issue with intentionally hour long matches, a staple of that era but even then all those broadways varied wildly so it wasn’t just the same shit again and again.

Plus he wore a cape.


DTF

Offline Hawk 34

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2017, 10:52:07 AM »
Maybe feel bad was the wrong word. But it feels like I'm liking an inferior product compared to what was before. Now I'm kicking myself for being out of it at the time of it's "Golden Age" and missing out on so much. I wish they'd get the damn classic DVDs back up on the ringside membership.

However, they did put up a 3-way on YouTube with Bryan Danielson/Kenny Omega/Tyler Black in it so that was pretty cool. It was blue short tight and shorter hair Kenny but he was still good.

Was Bryan Danielson sold as a killer when he was there? Because the story of the match honestly felt like Kenny and Seth trying to beat Danielson but him just smacking them around unless they could double team him.


Essentially at the end, he was treated as far superior entity than any other wrestler not just as the best wrestler but as a brawler especially the Morishima feud where the intent appeared to be to legit hurt each other and they succeeded at that.   There’s not really a negative mark in Danielson in ROH unless you have issue with intentionally hour long matches, a staple of that era but even then all those broadways varied wildly so it wasn’t just the same shit again and again.

Plus he wore a cape.

And at one point, an eye patch

Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2017, 11:54:50 PM »
Danielson was a bigger deal after his return in 2005 than he was in 2002/2003. That's when he really put it all together and started cranking out classic after classic.

Dama, try to find as much on the ROH/CZW feud from 2006 as you can. It starts at Hell Freezes Over (Chris Hero's ROH debut) and ends at Death Before Dishonor IV. It's the company's high water mark and possibly the only time an interpromotional feud has really worked.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2017, 01:45:43 AM »
Dama, don't get down about enjoying the product. There are still some good things about it. Many of the wrestlers are very good to great talent. It's the booking that's questionable. Having Jay Lethal as the face of the company was really not the best thing. He's pretty bland. A solid wrestler, but nothing about his time as champion really stood out, and then they have him hold the World and TV titles at the same time.

A lot of the talent further down the card just screams of average. Like they wouldn't have even been on the roster back during their great times.
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Offline The Valeyard

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2017, 11:03:32 AM »
Bring back Pelle Primeau.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2017, 05:26:59 AM »
I'm going to see ROH in OKC tonight. I'm debating if I want to go to the meet and greet or not.
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Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2017, 04:09:07 PM »
No doubt the best wrestling show I've ever been to.
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Offline ViciousFish

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2017, 01:19:42 AM »
Details?
Matt, don't be a fag. Post some huge cocks.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2017, 02:34:23 AM »
So the meet and greet was pretty awesome. It was not a long line because it wasn't a very large show. So I did not have to wait forever for the meet and greet.

It was $20 per wrestler (photo and autograph) or $30 for a tag team. I walked in and bought two singles meets (I budgeted to blow money on this show) and immediately noticed the line for the BC members. I then saw Jay Lethal and Kenny King sitting alone looking bored and I felt a little bit of pity. So I used one of them on Kenny King. He was pretty awesome and when I told him I liked his match with KUSHIDA when he won the title he actually leaned over and hugged me and told me how much he appreciated it. We shot the shit about KUSHIDA for a while because nobody else was walking up.

Then I went and got in Cody's line. He was very cool and we actually had a decent conversation about Yujiro Takahashi. I wanted to know if he's anything like he's portrayed on BTE. Cody said his English is actually bad and a lot of what he says on the show is just lines they gave him that he's repeating. He said deep down inside he thinks that Yujiro may actually be a dick though (his exact words). I then took a pic holding the title and a pic kissing the ring. Most people were just laying their lips on it but instinctively I actually smooched it when I pulled away and he laughed and said "Wow you really got in there!"

So then I went to the merch table in my Dalton Castle shirt and guess who was hanging at the merch table? We struck up a conversation about if he actually received royalties from my shirt or not since I bought it at the LV Fight Shop. I told him they buy their product from Pro Wrestling Tees and he got the royalty then but for some reason he didn't believe me until the merch girl told him I was right. I think he was angling for me to buy an autograph or another shirt by pulling the "you're wearing my shirt for free!' act. He was very charismatic and funny in real life though.

Then I was feeling bad because my son loves the Bucks and didn't get to meet them (he didn't want to come to the M&G because of lines). So I went ahead and bought an autograph from them. I was the last one in line so we then got to shoot the shit. I showed them pics of my son doing too sweet and they liked it. We then talked about Cracker Barrel and Matt asked what my go-to order is. Country Fried Breakfast with fried chicken of course. Then I took a pic. They both got on each side of me and I put my arms around them. I am over a head taller than both.

So then we're getting ready as the show is about to start and my son walks in. I said "Jace look!" and pointed at the Bucks. They heard this and started yelling "Jace come here and meet us!" "Give us a too sweet!" So he ran over there and too sweeted both and then they offered to take a free pic with him so we did that. The Bucks were just awesome.

The show itself was pretty amazing too. It was just really interactive and really fun. The matches  weren't really anything to write home about but they were still a ton of fun. I was in the 2nd row and anytime the action spilled to the floor it was right in front of me. So that was fun too.

Joey Ryan was there and did all of his spots including putting his opponent in a front face lock and then making the ref come over with a mic so he can tell us all that the guy is now going to touch his dick.

At intermission The Kingdom were standing on a table by the merch table with Matt Taven making fun of people in BC shirts and asking who wants to get laid tonight. He said the only way to get laid tonight is to buy a Kingdom shirt. It was a huge scene and they sold a ton of shirts doing it. Taven was hilarious too. His better lines:

"Why are you talking to me? You look like you work at a gas station my man. My shirt won't help you. Get lost."

"Nice flannel. Is Pearl Jam in town?"

*a guy buys a shirt and his girlfriend runs over and kisses him* "Look! He's had the shirt on for less than a minute and women are throwing themselves at him!"

*a guys girlfriend loudly protests him buying the shirt* "Is that your girlfriend? Don't worry much better looking women will want to sleep with you now."
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Offline ViciousFish

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2017, 02:50:37 AM »
Sounds awesome. I get a meet & greet with Cody on Saturday in Edmonton.
Matt, don't be a fag. Post some huge cocks.

Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2017, 12:30:45 AM »
Reading about your son meeting the Bucks put the dumbest smile on my face.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2017, 12:44:40 PM »
Reading about your son meeting the Bucks put the dumbest smile on my face.

Same here. I got even more excited to meet them and Cody next month because of it.
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Offline ravman77

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2017, 09:52:23 PM »
I've met the Bucks a few times over here in the U.K. and they are gentlemen. Sure they're making good money off merch etc but they always put a bit of effort in and are happy to talk, pose etc. Good guys.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2017, 02:42:36 PM »
I ordered Final Battle tonight. Pretty good show. The main just started. Cody bleached his hair.
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Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2017, 02:56:25 PM »
Dalton Castle won the ROH world title from Cody.
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Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2018, 06:34:43 AM »
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2018, 07:10:51 AM »
The new Tag, Women's, and TV belts look really good. The new 6-man and World, though, do not.

Offline Nymyzys

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2018, 07:14:05 AM »
The 6 man tag looks quite a bit like Impact's Grand title.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2018, 05:53:42 AM »
ROH announced that Cody Rhodes will face Kenny Omega at the Supercard of Honor event on Saturday, April 7th during Wrestlemania weekend in New Orleans. 


You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline Damaramu

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2018, 09:17:21 AM »
You trying to scoop me dubq? Steal my thunder? I mentioned this earlier in the puro thread.

It was actually announced on Being the Elite today when Nick Jackson had one of his visions of the future.
I watched RAW. I thought it sucked. The usual problems and such.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2018, 11:52:59 AM »
I haven't had a chance to seethe new BTE yet :(
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.