Author Topic: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit  (Read 2942 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jimmy no nose

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2,719
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2016, 04:39:37 PM »
What a fight!   Thought Condit won it though,  but the judges have traditionally shown that the challenger needs to definitively out point the defending champ so it wasn't surprising to me that Robbie won.  Robbie (and Carlos, for that matter) are fucking warriors.
Interestingly Robbie won the title in a fight where he didn't definitively out point the defending champ. Watched that fight again last night on FS1 and still had it a clear win for Hendricks.

Offline Zetterberg is Go

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,753
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2016, 04:43:51 PM »
Hopefully Condit telling Dana backstage he might retire is just post-fight fatigue. Would be a huge loss if he did.

Online Firmino of the 909

  • Admin
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34,076
  • 909
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2016, 04:51:21 PM »
Condit said something about that the other day too. They never stay gone, he'd be back in a year or less.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Youth N Asia

  • 2016 & 2017 Death Pool Reaper
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,364
  • STRONG STYLE!
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2016, 04:54:16 PM »
I picked opposite of the judges in both Lawler/Hendrix fights.

Condit outstruck Lawler nearly 2-1. No doubt Robbie had the bigger shots though. Funny that it's the 3rd of January and we may have fight of the year.

Offline Zetterberg is Go

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,753
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2016, 04:55:28 PM »
I would hope Condit wouldn't go out after a fight as close as that but I guess I get it if he did.

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,749
  • wipeoff
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2016, 05:46:32 AM »
http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/1/3/10703628/despite-shattering-nose-dustin-poirier-appears-to-set-viewership

Proof that some fighters draw and move the needle. Dana made a good move putting that fight on Fight Pass.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline Lord of The Curry

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,403
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2016, 01:38:01 AM »
Good to see the ol' "Judges don't score leg kicks" shit is alive and well. Larkin won his fight but so did Soto, Noke and Condit so at least they were fucking up consistently on Saturday night.

Online AA484

  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,369
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2016, 02:09:59 AM »
Yeah, I scored four fights differently than the judges did for this card; I had Condit, Larkin, Noke, and Ansaroff winning.  Soto vs. Tanaka I thought could have gone either way, a draw even, but we all know how rarely that happens.

Would it be controversial for me to think that Condit won every round, even the one where he was knocked down?  As someone else mentioned earlier, he won 75% of the final round and gave some great shots in return himself.  Also, I thought the 4th round could have been 10-8, but (again) we all know how rarely that happens.

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,749
  • wipeoff
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2016, 02:31:45 AM »
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2604511-robbie-lawler-vs-carlos-condit-breaking-down-the-fightmetric-numbers

This is a good breakdown of the decision. I thought Condit edged it out, but in a fight that close I wouldn't be upset if it went either way. It's definitely not a robbery.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline Lord of The Curry

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,403
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2016, 03:38:38 AM »
Ehhhhh I dunno about it not being a robbery. Like AA said it's not inconcievable to score the fight four rounds to one for Carlos. That's a robbery.

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,749
  • wipeoff
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2016, 03:44:11 AM »
It's also not inconceivable to score it 3-2 for Robbie. In my view if a couple of the rounds were that close that they could have been scored either way, then it's not a robbery.

Robbie said he won under PRIDE rules lol PRIDE NEVAH DIE


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline Lord of The Curry

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,403
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2016, 04:08:31 AM »
I guess that's the problem with varying opinions and no actual basis to score fights. There are people who will give Lawler the fifth because of his one minute of craziness and others who would weight Condit's volume and overall round control as the determining factor.

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,749
  • wipeoff
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2016, 04:35:44 AM »
Some people are more questionable about Robbie winning 2 and 5, but most think that he did. Round 5 I already commented on, but there wasn't even much of a difference in volume. Robbie actually outlanded him in terms of head shots, and Condit had 9 more significant strikes, mostly to the body. I don't know how effective those were, and I don't think they were effective enough to counter Robbie's onslaught in terms of judging. The volume argument doesn't really hold here, and I don't remember Condit having more control in that round, maybe I'm wrong.

Round 2 the only significant strikes Condit outlanded Robbie in were to the legs, but Robbie doesn't kick the legs and again I don't know that those leg kicks were a bigger deal than the knockdown. They felt like defensive tactics to control the distance and keep Robbie away. They worked for a while but didn't do enough damage to counter the fact that he eventually did get knocked down. Maybe ground control swayed the judges too, but I won't give Robbie that because Carlos looked p. comfortable on his back. All things considered, the knockdown was enough to give Robbie that round to me.


Anyway, I think it comes down to who people scored Round 3 for. Ultimately, I can't call it a robbery over one close round. I probably had it for Condit but the point remains it was close.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline Youth N Asia

  • 2016 & 2017 Death Pool Reaper
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,364
  • STRONG STYLE!
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2016, 04:39:23 AM »
I gave Condit 1, 4, and 5 without hesitation. I'm also hearing that 3 is one that was giving people fits. I had that for Robbie. Guess I'd need to rewatch it to see if it was that close.

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,749
  • wipeoff
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2016, 04:50:17 AM »
I think you should watch the fifth round again too:

Quote
MMA mania
‏@mmamania

Robbie Lawler takes Round 5 EMPHATICALLY. I have it 48-47 Condit. @MMADecisions Adrian MacNair

http://mmadecisions.com/decision/6727/Robbie-Lawler-vs-Carlos-Condit

I stopped checking the fifth round scores when I couldn't find one that scored it for Condit. Out of 15, I'm sure at least one did but that should tell you that even the majority that scored it for Condit thought Lawler won the last round.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline NoCalMike

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7,889
  • Welcome to Prime Time, bitch!
    • EVIL EPISODES PODCAST!
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2016, 04:21:36 AM »
The age-old "damage vs. volume" argument.
Get your TV Horror Fix w/the Podcast EVIL EPISODES! Listen at:
http://www.legionpodcasts.com/
http://www.horrorphilia.com

Online AA484

  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,369
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #66 on: January 06, 2016, 05:35:59 AM »
The age-old "damage vs. volume" argument.

The thing about this is volume can be quantified - damage cannot and will always be subjective.  That's what makes it so difficult.  My brain is naturally more oriented towards tangible evidence as opposed to using objective results as evidence.  So more often than not, I will weigh more heavily on the side of volume.  But that's just me.

Offline Lord of The Curry

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,403
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #67 on: January 06, 2016, 05:40:08 AM »
Yeah damage is a tough one. BJ wasn't marked up at all in his fight with Rory but had the shit beat out of him. GSP dominated Condit but if you were judging who won at the end of the fight by how their face looked you'd think we were going to have a new champion. I tend to side with volume too for those reasons.

Offline HSJ

  • misogynist at heart
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,101
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #68 on: January 06, 2016, 05:43:22 AM »
I had it 2-2 going into the final round and feel like that is a pretty easy to explain/safe way of scoring. I would have to rewatch it to consider the 3rd round going to Condit.

But the 5th round is up in in the air and could go either way in my eyes. Condit controlled the first 3 minutes and Lawler the last 2. Lawlers shots looked like they had more pop on them, but Condit had the volume and neither guy was willing to back down.

In no way do I think this was a robbery, but I had Condit winning the last round. But I can easily, EASILY see why it would go to Lawler in some eyes.

Screw Woodley, lets do this rematch.


DTF

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,749
  • wipeoff
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #69 on: January 06, 2016, 05:52:43 AM »
The age-old "damage vs. volume" argument.

The thing about this is volume can be quantified - damage cannot and will always be subjective.  That's what makes it so difficult.  My brain is naturally more oriented towards tangible evidence as opposed to using objective results as evidence.  So more often than not, I will weigh more heavily on the side of volume.  But that's just me.

But the volume isn't all equal, and it's kind of silly to think that a teep is the same as a right straight. A lot of times, they'll both be 'significant strikes'. I don't have an issue with an objective measure, but this one is not as objective as it appears on the surface.

Also, a knockdown is not subjective and is scored as a dominant round regardless of the difference in volume in virtually every striking sport. And I don't even think it should be like that in MMA, I'm just saying that in a sport like MMA where people choose what objective measures to look at that it's all subjective.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline NoCalMike

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7,889
  • Welcome to Prime Time, bitch!
    • EVIL EPISODES PODCAST!
Re: UFC 195: Lawler vs. Condit
« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2016, 09:32:59 AM »
I think the first thing that needs to be done is to start getting more former MMA fighters involved in the process of becoming judges.  For a sport that is still growing, you'd think there would have been more movement on the first over the past 5-10 years, yet for most of the big fights the UFC finds themselves with boxing judges trying to score martial arts fights with little more than a class/seminar on what to look for.
Get your TV Horror Fix w/the Podcast EVIL EPISODES! Listen at:
http://www.legionpodcasts.com/
http://www.horrorphilia.com