Author Topic: Marvel's The Punisher  (Read 1430 times)

Description: Netflix Series

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 11:35:36 AM »
great trailer and im really looking forward to this.

Offline Youth N Asia

  • 2016 & 2017 Death Pool Reaper
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,044
  • STRONG STYLE!
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 11:41:45 AM »
Bernthal was such a homerun as Punisher that I am eagerly looking forward to this series.

Offline Avid TOXIE Enthusiast

  • Laz
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14,105
  • 001101001101101100
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 11:46:08 AM »
This and Stranger Things are the only shows I'm looking forward to.

Maybe the real deep state was the friends we made along the way.

Offline CletusVanDamme

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,109
  • BlackFlagg
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 02:11:54 AM »
Fuck I want this now!

Offline Avid TOXIE Enthusiast

  • Laz
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14,105
  • 001101001101101100
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 02:19:20 AM »
...somebody needs to clean my pants

Maybe the real deep state was the friends we made along the way.

Offline Mayor of Flavortown

  • brock lock
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,637
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 03:58:33 AM »
Holy shit.

Offline Gary

  • Where No Life Dwells
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,266
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 05:14:44 AM »
God damn


Out Here Ginding

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2017, 02:21:15 PM »
based on how great the punisher was in Daredevil and now that trailer I'm going to go out on a limb and say this has the potential to be the best Marvel series yet.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 03:57:34 AM »
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/19/16503458/netflix-marvel-punisher-premiere-date-streaming-november-17th

Drops November 17th same day as Justice League. I know which I'm more eager to see.

Offline Avid TOXIE Enthusiast

  • Laz
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14,105
  • 001101001101101100
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2017, 11:46:59 PM »
What's a Justice League? BANG BOOM RATATAT KAPOW

Maybe the real deep state was the friends we made along the way.

Offline CletusVanDamme

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,109
  • BlackFlagg
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 06:01:31 PM »
It is here, let the binge begin :D

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 06:49:05 AM »
This was so good

Offline NoCalMike

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7,883
  • Welcome to Prime Time, bitch!
    • EVIL EPISODES PODCAST!
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2017, 01:47:11 PM »
I'd already be knee deep into the series but I am waiting until the rest of the household is tucked away for the night.  I have a feeling this is going to be fun as hell and I don't want to be interrupted every 10 mins.
Get your TV Horror Fix w/the Podcast EVIL EPISODES! Listen at:
http://www.legionpodcasts.com/
http://www.horrorphilia.com

Offline Avid TOXIE Enthusiast

  • Laz
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14,105
  • 001101001101101100
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2017, 02:19:11 AM »
Most of the critique you can throw at the Thomas Jane movie can be levied at this show. I'm halfway through and while there's a ton to love so far (Bernthal is the best Castle yet, Micro is great, Midoni is excellent, the Lewis subplot is particularly poignant), I'm also finding myself bored because CONSPIRACY!!!! It seems that's all Marvel knows to do with their down-to-earth characters.

This at least serves a purpose, but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't expect something a bit more graphic.

Maybe the real deep state was the friends we made along the way.

Offline pujoljunkie

  • Old Navy / Diet Snapple Publishing Group
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,824
  • PujolJunkie
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 04:05:43 AM »
I'm about halfway through this, and I'm liking it fine but, idunno, something's not really clicking for me. There's something, idunno, I don't want to say right wing, but maybe that's what I mean? This feels like a show written for people who don't like kneeling football players. There's a lot of "Ha ha, man buns are the worst!" and "proper gun maintenance is super fun!" which is fine, because they're consistent with Castle's character, but these ideas often seem unchallenged. Not that the show has any obligation to challenge those notions, but by not doing so they're pretty firmly planting themselves in a demographic that I'm not really a part of.

Bernthal's performance is great, but I kind of hate the Punisher. I think this character is completely irredeemable and I can't find a single reason I should root for his success. Micro might be the only character in this show that I think is a good person.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 04:30:46 AM »
I did get those vibes at times particularly with guns but I did feel like by the end of the season there was at least some light at the end of the tunnel being shown. Even if it gets snatched away next season like most shows lol

Offline Harley Quinn

  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,945
    • Culture Crossfire
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 06:39:14 AM »
Finished it. Enjoyed it for the most part, final few episodes had more than enough gore/graphic bloodshed IMO. Wasn't a fan of the Homeland Security Conspiracy stuff at all but whatever.

Offline The Thread Killer

  • Thread's Dead, Baby. Thread's Dead.
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 139
  • Snausages
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 07:28:31 AM »
I am very familiar with The Punisher as a character. My brother collected The Punisher and Daredevil comics for years and had a pretty much complete run of the original Punisher series, as well as Punisher: War Zone and the various graphic novels.  I borrowed them over time and read them all.  I also saw all of the film adaptations, even the crappy 1989 version when it first came out.

In my opinion, the closest anybody ever came to getting the character "right" prior to the second season of Daredevil, was the movie Punisher: War Zone in 2008.  I found that in other adaptations people tended to tone down or make the violence cartoony - or the actor playing the part didn't quite strike me as being true to Frank Castle as he was portrayed in the comic books. 

When they first announced he'd be appearing in season 2 of Daredevil I was a bit more optimistic, based on how well they had done with characterizations during the first season of Daredevil.  I still maintain that the way they portayed Kingpin in the first season of Daredevil was one of the best jobs of interpreting and portraying a comic book character on screen that I have ever seen. The other characters were also spot-on and true to the source material.  I hoped they'd do The Punisher justice, and they did. I wasn't at all disappointed with the way The Punisher came off during the second season of Daredevil, so I was really looking forward to this show debuting.

I binge-watched this over the course of two days.  I think this was a home run.  After Iron Fist and The Defenders I was getting bit nervous about the quality of these Marvel shows on Netflix, but I really enjoyed this a lot. I liked it so much so that I would rate it only beneath the first season of Daredevil in the quality rankings of the Netflix/Marvel shows.

So far I'd rate them:

1) Daredevil Season 1
2) The Punisher
3) Luke Cage
4) Daredevil Season 2
5) The Defenders
6) Iron Fist
7) Jessica Jones (two tries and I still haven't been able to get through that show.)

At first I was surprised at how plot driven this show was, but after thinking about it, it made sense.  You can't reasonably sustain a 13 episode arc using nothing but action/gunfights - especially since the character doesn't have any super-powers, he just shoots people.  13 episodes of that would get pretty boring, so they really had no choice but to come up with a story to weave throughout the season to add to the tension.  Thankfully, they succeeded in making the story a compelling one by adding several layers to Castle's origin story first introduced in the second season of Daredevil.

I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of Paul Schulze as Agent Orange.  Of course, I've seen him in a million things.  Just off the top of my head I remember him from Oz, 24, Nurse Jackie and The Sopranos. Usually he gets typecast as a villain but the cowardly, sniveling type.  If you had asked me before this, I wouldn't have thought he would have played a good psycho...but he did a really good job here.  The scene where Castle tries to take him out with the sniper rifle was especially compelling, I thought.  Ben Barnes deserves a lot of credit for his portrayal of Billy The Beaut, as well.

The rest of the performances ranged from good to meh, but there was nothing cringe-worthy here.  I was somewhat disappointed the way Micro was portrayed here, he was a bit more whiny than I remember him being in the comics.  I appreciate the detail put into his backstory, but I probably would have preferred him to be a bit tougher in nature.  I understand they were going with a personality contrast between he and Castle, and I liked how the relationship evolved from contempt to respect throughout the course of the series.

There were so many times where they could have gone full out "comic book" during this series that they instead showed restraint and finesse. The whole subplot with Micro's family (especially his son) could have been handled in a corny, ham-handed manner but they were actually able to make me feel sympathy for the kid.  The quality of the writing and performances here were really strong.

Of course, the show pretty much rises and falls on the shoulders of Jon Bernthal. He did a great job.  He showed a lot of range with his performance, obviously there was the anger and rage but also the PTSD aspects and his compassion and guilt.  I am so glad they got a guy with acting chops to play this part, and not just some musclehead.

I understand the criticism by people who think this character is too "right wing" or that the show glorifies gun violence and is sympathetic to gun nuts.  The whole subplot featuring the Senator who was a hardcore anti-gun advocate and turned out to be a liar and coward certainly bears that criticism out. 

The problem is that when you look at the character of The Punisher, you can't deny that he's basically a crazed vigilante obsessed with killing criminals by violent means.  That's who he is.  If you try and change that or soften it, then basically he isn't really The Punisher.  When you do that, you basically get the 2004 film. If you remain true to the source material, you're going to get the guns and violence.

One of the things I liked about The Sopranos was that the main character was at heart, basically a bad person. There were plenty of times you felt sympathy for him (especially considering his mother) but the whole point of Tony's relationship with Dr. Melfi boiled down to a simple choice: Tony was doing terrible things to make money and if he wanted to be a good person and deal with his psychological problems, he had to stop doing things like killing people.  His ultimate refusal to change his own behavior and eventual acceptance of his own evil nature were a big part of what made him such a compelling character.

The reason I bring this up is because I assume there will be a second season of The Punisher.  I would hope that the writers understand that it is possible to have a television show where the protagonist doesn't have to always be sympathetic or even a hero. They can portray the main character of the show as flawed and morally wrong.  It has been done before, on The Sopranos and other shows since.  It can be done here too.  I think the writers are skilled enough to get the point across that The Punisher might have valid reasons for starting on his rampage against criminals, but in the end it's probably not a good idea to just go around shooting everybody.  Hell, that has always been the basis of the conflict between Daredevil and The Punisher.  They explored that territory in the second season of Daredevil and I would hope they can do it here too.

I hope to see more of this show, based on how strong this first season was.

Offline Gary

  • Where No Life Dwells
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,266
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 07:52:03 AM »
I'm about halfway through this, and I'm liking it fine but, idunno, something's not really clicking for me. There's something, idunno, I don't want to say right wing, but maybe that's what I mean? This feels like a show written for people who don't like kneeling football players. There's a lot of "Ha ha, man buns are the worst!" and "proper gun maintenance is super fun!" which is fine, because they're consistent with Castle's character, but these ideas often seem unchallenged. Not that the show has any obligation to challenge those notions, but by not doing so they're pretty firmly planting themselves in a demographic that I'm not really a part of.

Bernthal's performance is great, but I kind of hate the Punisher. I think this character is completely irredeemable and I can't find a single reason I should root for his success. Micro might be the only character in this show that I think is a good person.

To me, it's always been up to the viewer and/or reader to decide whether you should root for the guy. To me, he's always been a broken man, but he's more complex than just being a psychopath with guns. Some of the best Punisher stories (especially those written by Garth Ennis*) recognize this. Hell, the only time I really rooted for him was in "The Slavers" story.

*Part of what I love about the Ennis stories is that they realize Frank Castle is a broken man and that you really shouldn't sympathize too much (or at all) with him, but also usually knows that you can have fun every now and then. "Welcome Back Frank" plays it all out as a black comedy, and it's all the better for it. I mean, this happens:



Out Here Ginding

Offline Damaramu

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12,657
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 07:58:24 AM »
Welcome Back Frank is my favorite Punisher story ever.

I liked this. It was up there with Daredevil and Jessica Jones for me as far as the Marvel TV shows. The only complaint I have is the same as I had for Daredevil: he gets his ass kicked too much. It seems like every other episode someone is patching him back together or he's all bloody and bruised with blood just pouring out of his mouth. I know he's human with no super powers but I don't think he should get shot, stabbed or beaten to a pulp constantly.
I watched RAW. I thought it sucked. The usual problems and such.

Offline Gary

  • Where No Life Dwells
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,266
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2017, 08:07:21 AM »
Welcome Back Frank is my favorite Punisher story ever.

"Born" is my favorite, followed by "In The Beginning" and "Welcome Back Frank". "Born" is just flat out excellent storytelling altogether, while "In the Beginning" mixes the action with dark humor and also works as a solid character study as to why Castle does what he does (his explanation as to why he won't hunt and kill Bin Laden for the government is especially great). "Welcome Back Frank" is the most fun of the series, and never lets up in the action or humor department.


Out Here Ginding

Online Brooklyn Zoo

  • BZ
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16,060
  • BZ
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2017, 09:49:23 AM »
I loved this. Agreed with a lot of what’s being said here. Punisher doesn’t make great decisions and isn’t a good dude. What makes me root for him is his backstory and his ruthlessness. These types of stories, like death wish and shit like that is rooted in emotion so it’s easy to get caught up. I can’t wait till season 2 with jigsaw and I heard barracuda might make an appearance

Offline Gary

  • Where No Life Dwells
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,266
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2019, 06:01:43 AM »


Out Here Ginding

Offline Just Call Me Dan

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,272
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2019, 08:55:25 AM »
Expected Jigsaw's face to be a little more fucked up.

Offline Avid TOXIE Enthusiast

  • Laz
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14,105
  • 001101001101101100
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 09:04:04 AM »
I hope there's more action this time and less spy intrigue, but it's a modern "gritty" show so that means conspiracies and lots of self-reflection episodes.

Either way, I'm still game and eager. Bernthal IS Frank Castle to me.

Maybe the real deep state was the friends we made along the way.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 10:47:47 AM »
super hyped for this. I thought there was enough violence in the last season. Much more and it would just be a nonstop orgy of violence with no storytelling IMO. I like to build up to it a bit.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2019, 11:32:13 AM »
im about halfway through
Spoiler: show
just had the episode where billy finds out frank is the skull from his nightmares and the big chase and robbery etc
. So far I'd say the first season is better but I'm enjoying it. It's really being carried by two performances so far though. Berenthal continues to BE the Punisher and Ben Barnes is even better this season than last and in a totally different way. The fight scenes are excellent.

Offline Avid TOXIE Enthusiast

  • Laz
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14,105
  • 001101001101101100
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2019, 12:21:22 AM »
One episode left of S2 and I'm with CWM here. It's not as good as S1 but the main cast still delivers, with Ben Barnes really shining.
Spoiler: show
It's just a shame that he shines in some of the worst scenes of the entire series. And that you can see the latex appliances on his face super clearly. And that he's playing Jigsaw and looks like he just fell face first into a shrubbery instead of having his entire face deformed.


Anybody else just really, REALLY annoyed at the awful music choices? There's a few great moments of music, namely a cover of "Fortunate Son," but there's a few stinkers that feel like they were haphazardly thrown in. The first season used licensed music far better.

Also...
Spoiler: show
Pilgrim should've been the entire plot of the season. Frank going after the Russian mob and Schulz's hired guns would've led to a much better tempo and saving Jigsaw for S3 would've given the story time to breathe. I'm not sure if it's a Netflix thing or a Marvel thing, but the second season of a show doesn't need to splinter the plot even further while offering episodes that are 90% chatter.

Maybe the real deep state was the friends we made along the way.

Offline Avid TOXIE Enthusiast

  • Laz
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 14,105
  • 001101001101101100
Re: Marvel's The Punisher
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2019, 09:50:44 AM »
Finished up S2 last night. I still stand by both spoiler tagged comments, especially the first, but hot damn was that a fulfilling end to this season's arc.

YAY:
Spoiler: show
-The core cast is great, and most of the supporting cast was great too. Deborah Ann Woll is always a joy. Corbin Bernsen as Schultz was a perfect snake oil salesman and Josh Stewart stole the goddamn show. Hell, even Alexa Davalos did a great job as Beth and she was only around for half an episode.

-I loved the tension surrounding Madani and Curtis and whether or not they'd survive. I thought Curtis was dying for sure, but having him pull a Deputy Dewey and just come thisclose worked.

-Following the Die Hard rule where the heroes can actually be hurt was wonderful. It made Castle and Barnes seem that much deadlier when they'd get the shit knocked out of them, patch themselves up, and get back to it.

NAY:
Spoiler: show
-Floriana Lima as Dr. Krista Dumont nearly ruined the entire season. Literally the worst performance in either season, possibly even the worst in anything Punisher related, including all of the generic baddies in War Zone. Jesus she's fucking awful.

-Just like Daredevil S2, there was too much going on for one season. Keep it simple, stupid. This should've been all about Schultz and Pilgrim and Frank turning the Russians against Schultz. We didn't need Russo outside of a cameo near the end to tell us he's still alive, setting up the S3 arc of Jigsaw.

-No, seriously, Dr. Dumont was shit. Pure shit. Sophia Coppola is a better actress than Floriana Lima.


If I'm ranking all the Punisher movies and both seasons...
1. Punisher S1
2. The Punisher 2004 (Thomas Jane)
3. The Punisher 1989 (Dolph Lundgren)
4. Punisher S2
5. War Zone (Ray Stevenson)

In terms of favorite performances...
1. Jon Bernthal
2. Dolph Lundgren
3. Thomas Jane
4. Ray Stevenson

Maybe the real deep state was the friends we made along the way.