Author Topic: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension  (Read 11477 times)

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Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #400 on: June 28, 2019, 11:47:28 AM »
Watching the Flip Gordon-Rush preshow match on the free previews channel.

Watching a rasslin match on 1/5th of the screen. Brings back the good ol' days of WWF Free For All on the free preview channel.

And this arena is empty. ROH has got to start moving to smaller venues ASAP since I don't think they're gonna regularly draw in the thousands for the next millennia.

Best in the World is traditionally a huge ROH PPV but it's getting overshadowed by a second tier AEW show and the NJPW Australia shows (which basically feel like C shows). Bad times indeed.

Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #401 on: June 28, 2019, 11:53:42 AM »
Eli Drake just debuted as Nick Aldis' mystery partner.

ROH is the new Impact Wrestling and Impact Wrestling is the new ROH.  :o

Offline Baby Shoes

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #402 on: June 28, 2019, 12:39:49 PM »
Wow.  I find Eli entertaining but since he felt like a WWE guy of 10 years ago, I had no idea where he fit in with this "indy renaissance".  Being in ROH is a surprise but I guess not for 2019 ROH.

Then again, the main thing I've cared about in the last long stretch of ROH TV has been El Hijo Del Squid Jr. so what do I know?
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Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #403 on: June 28, 2019, 03:10:40 PM »
Flip Gordon in Villain Enterprises just feel likes miscasting. I don't see him fitting in with the weirdos stable even though Flip is probably weirder than all of those guys except PCO IRL.


Also OF COURSE, Matt Taven beat Jeff Cobb and Shane Taylor beat Bandido. Cause you can't trust ROH to leave anyone happy. Kind of expected World Title result since Cobb's doing a NJPW tour soon but I can't really think of any reason why Shane Taylor needs to have a lengthy run with the TV title.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #404 on: June 28, 2019, 10:55:43 PM »
Taylor is signed to a long-term contract and it's not likely another company will take him so they probably think he's the best choice to invest in even though he fucking sucks. Bandito I think has only a one-year deal and he'll surely bolt afterwards.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #405 on: June 28, 2019, 10:57:15 PM »
Also, attendance was horrible last night. There's pictures surfacing of the bleachers clearly empty.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #406 on: June 28, 2019, 11:00:06 PM »
Taven beat fucking Cobb? Fuck this company

Offline RedJed

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #407 on: June 29, 2019, 02:28:37 AM »
What a frustrating show that was last night. As I figured, the crowd wasn't fully there by the time they started Flip and Rush. But honestly the attendance was so low that the seats never filled up through the show so I guess it was a moot point. Honestly that may have been one of the better matches of the show and it's just sad that that got the pre-show treatment but I guess you could consider it a hot opener. Absolutely criminal that they're treating talent like this and it partially explains why the attendance is dipping down so much.

I fully expected them to switch the TV and world titles on the show and instead they did the complete opposite and in both cases pretty clean. I get the company wants to develop their talent that they're having more in a long-term basis but this is dumb as fuck creatively as anybody in the company just has to take a look at their nosediving attendance numbers and a lack of their base caring about who's on top and one would have to recognize that it would be imperative for them to at least put the belts on guys who could be considered potential draws. This is the opposite of that. I groaned when both Taylor and Taven went over.

Particularly the main event was just a huge let down on the show. I guess they were short on time before the pay-per-view window cleared at the top of the hour something but the match was completely rushed didn't even go 10 minutes And then on top of it they have Cobb finally have his first loss be clean as a whistle and in this manner. Talk about not recognizing the way to develop talent properly huh? This was bad booking 101 here. The one guy you've been protecting since September without any loss or pinfall or submission and then you have him lose quickly in a manner like this. I had all the confidence in the world they were going to flip the belt to him since they had him lose the TV title without losing it necessarily and they had a video package building Cobb up quite a bit talking about how he got to this point. Seemed like it was a no brainer he had to go over but nope

I guess ROH is just comfortable with these dropping numbers in attendance and I'm sure the numbers of pay-per-view buys are going to be down as well. And I don't know what their long-term plan is. I get the impression they don't have one or by the time that long-term plan gets implemented and they give some actual draws the two main titles it might be too late and they may have lost too many fans in the process. I'm certainly one of them that's about ready to fold up shop on actually supporting them financially. Already decided I'm going to cancel my honor club membership and we'll see what the next pay-per-view holds but if it's looking like it's going to be anything like this one was I'll definitely decline the purchase

Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #408 on: June 29, 2019, 04:14:23 AM »
The two worst things to happen to ROH have been Silkin signing the company over to Sinclair and changing from bi-weekly EVENT cards to a standard television model. The entire product has been on a decline since 2009 when those two things happened.

It's not as if 2007 and 2008 were banner years, mind you, but I'll take a super hot Briscoes/Steenerico program or the closure of Bryan/Morishima over anything from the last 7-8 years in a heartbeat.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #409 on: July 01, 2019, 12:04:01 PM »
Wow.  I find Eli entertaining but since he felt like a WWE guy of 10 years ago, I had no idea where he fit in with this "indy renaissance".  Being in ROH is a surprise but I guess not for 2019 ROH.

Then again, the main thing I've cared about in the last long stretch of ROH TV has been El Hijo Del Squid Jr. so what do I know?

Eli isn't signed to ROH. He's signed with NWA, but works shows that NWA works with, whether it's ROH or Championship Wrestling from Hollywood/Arizona.
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Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #410 on: July 20, 2019, 11:02:05 AM »
My friend went to the Manhattan show tonight. I had no interest in going, and obviously neither did many people. She took these and sent them to me. This was after the show had been going on for over 30 minutes.



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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #411 on: July 20, 2019, 11:57:15 AM »
They sold that building out a year ago. It's a damn shame. What the hell happened?

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #412 on: July 20, 2019, 12:03:17 PM »
A lot. Between The Elite leaving, the booking, fans being turned off by a lot of the things they are doing.

Tickets for the NJPW show at the same venue go on sale next Saturday. Let's see how they draw.
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Offline Baby Shoes

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #413 on: July 20, 2019, 12:25:10 PM »
NJPW will probably sell out because they are killing it right now.  Even though they lost The Elite, I am liking their shows better than when the Elite were around.  ROH just confuses me most of the time when I try to tune in now.
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Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #414 on: July 21, 2019, 03:06:32 AM »
I feel like ROH had a chance to sustain somewhat like NJPW by focusing on having best workrate but now a lot of the guys that they brought into replace the Elite (Juice Robinson, ZSJ, Jeff Cobb) are either gone or spending most of their time in NJPW. Instead of making at least somewhat of an attempt at trying to get Marty Scurll and Flip Gordon to re-sign, which I admit is a futile task, they seem content to let them blatantly run out of the clock on their contracts.

And they think it's a great idea to build around Matt Taven and Kenny King. I get total Justin Credible's ECW World Title run with Matt Taven. Like, I guess the guy is a fine hand but he's the one you want to build around?

And '00 ECW still sold out the Hammerstein Ballroom.

It just says something that the 3 or 4 ROH stans left in my social feed media are pining their hopes on Alex Shelley's comeback. Look, Alex Shelley is a pretty damn good worker but when 2019 Alex Shelley is your savior...yikes.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #415 on: July 21, 2019, 03:20:35 AM »
Credible as ECW World champion was fine for two reasons:
1) His act was built on being the slimy, greasy heel that couldn't win a fight on his own, and he waited until the old guard had left before even trying for the top.
2) "ECW" was the draw, not the champions. The company's attitude as a whole was still so unique even after years of Attitude and the copycats that arose.

ROH lost its identity when they started weekly TV. It wasn't special anymore, it was just another wrestling promotion. That this happened around the same time as Gabe's departure, the sale to Sinclair, and a mass exodus of talent to WWE/TNA didn't help.

Offline Baby Shoes

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #416 on: August 08, 2019, 09:20:05 AM »
ROH, you have my attention again

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #417 on: August 09, 2019, 12:44:58 PM »
/photo/1

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #418 on: August 09, 2019, 02:21:08 PM »
This happened live, on an ROH PPV.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #419 on: August 11, 2019, 12:09:40 AM »
All the more evidence that Shelley has been underappreciated his career.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #420 on: August 13, 2019, 02:21:39 AM »
ROH relied on the Elite guys and NJPW too much and it's biting them in the ass. I had been saying this for years and now that they need to actually build their own stars, no one cares because they only wanna see the former.

I actually don't hate Matt Taven like most do. He absolutely shouldn't be world champ but he's fine as a midcard scummy heel. Shane Taylor though SUCKS (my dislike for him has been well documented). The Briscoes are the only credible tag team they have.

ROH needs to go into creative overhaul. They have some decent talent. PUSH THOSE GUYS.

Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #421 on: August 14, 2019, 02:26:46 PM »
?s=20
Rock N Roll Express getting an ROH Tag Team Titles shot confirms 2019 as the most random god damn year in rasslin history.

Offline JHawk

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #422 on: August 15, 2019, 12:17:50 AM »
The match at Crockett Cup was actually pretty good so I'm down for this.

Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #423 on: August 18, 2019, 01:16:10 PM »
Catching up on ROH TV (still a week behind) and they've changed the show to mostly a clip show format the last two episodes with Ian Riccaboni and the new nerdy backstage interviewer Quinn McKay hosting wrap arounds.

I don't know if this is permanent or just because they're in between TV taping cycles but if it is the former, it just seems like a bad idea to turn the show into informercials for Honor Club. It seems like having 2/3rds of the matches on their TV show be 3 or 4 minute clip jobs with "WATCH THIS FULL MATCH ON HONOR CLUB" will alienate whatever casual fans they still have left

At least, both shows ended with 20-30 minute PPV level matches. And  honestly the Triple Threat match for the ROH World Title between Matt Taven, Jay Lethal, and Kenny King was way better than I was expecting. Taven is a honestly a pretty good wrestler, who I'd be perfectly be fine with being TV Champ but not so much when they try to push him as an insurmountable ace.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #424 on: August 18, 2019, 10:31:25 PM »
Catching up on ROH TV (still a week behind) and they've changed the show to mostly a clip show format the last two episodes with Ian Riccaboni and the new nerdy backstage interviewer Quinn McKay hosting wrap arounds.

I don't know if this is permanent or just because they're in between TV taping cycles but if it is the former, it just seems like a bad idea to turn the show into informercials for Honor Club. It seems like having 2/3rds of the matches on their TV show be 3 or 4 minute clip jobs with "WATCH THIS FULL MATCH ON HONOR CLUB" will alienate whatever casual fans they still have left

At least, both shows ended with 20-30 minute PPV level matches. And  honestly the Triple Threat match for the ROH World Title between Matt Taven, Jay Lethal, and Kenny King was way better than I was expecting. Taven is a honestly a pretty good wrestler, who I'd be perfectly be fine with being TV Champ but not so much when they try to push him as an insurmountable ace.

I read not too long ago that they were going to try to get the tapings closer to the PPV schedule. Usually their PPV happens, and the following week of TV was still like 2 weeks before the PPV happens. They've been running for so long, something like that shouldn't be happening. This might be their way to fix that. Have clip shows until the next PPV and fill in TV after that.
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Offline HSJ

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #425 on: August 21, 2019, 04:58:17 AM »
Yeah, I turned on ROH last week and was pissed the Gresham/Bandido match was a clip job. I turned it off.


DTF

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #426 on: August 28, 2019, 04:28:01 AM »
So ROH had their TV tapings last weekend and I guess the show is going to a recap show (with one exclusive match as main event). They taped 4 or 5 matches for the TV show and the rest was Future of Honor or Honor Club Exclusives.

Now granted, as I said, the main events that they do air on the TV show now are PPV level...or as much as a PPV level match you can get out of ROH in 2019 (haha) but it makes absolutely no damn sense to me. ROH has always promoted itself on being the promotion that prides itself on having the best workrate in North America and now you're gonna have your weekly show be mostly recaps? Like 99% of their decisions the last six months. I. Just. Don't. Get it.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #427 on: August 28, 2019, 05:22:48 AM »
I've always wondered if Sinclair even gives a shit about the kind of TV they produce as long as it's an hour they can shove into whatever timeslot they need.  I caught a tiny bit the other night and they completely pixelated someone's bloody face which looked hilarious and made WWE'S black and white solution look novel.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #428 on: August 29, 2019, 05:09:10 AM »

Oh snap, Taven gonna join his boy Mike Kanelis and reform the original Kingdom.

Offline Baby Shoes

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #429 on: August 29, 2019, 05:29:56 AM »
WWE can’t afford to hire him due to all the lotion he stole in his past tryout
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Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #430 on: August 29, 2019, 06:18:36 AM »
I'm guessing Rush wins the ROH World Title at the next PPV anyway. Building around the CMLL guys is probably only sensible direction for ROH at this point.

And if Taven leaves after they built the company around him for the past year, it'd make this last year even more pointless.

ROH has fell harder in a year's span than any promotion in the post Monday Night War era IMO. I think everybody expected a crash but maybe I was naive for thinking it wouldn't be this ugly. And it wasn't like they were even that good last year.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #431 on: August 29, 2019, 06:25:25 AM »
Getting the belt the fuck off Taven is a start, even if it's to a guy who's likely gonna bolt from the company next year. ROH goes from leaning on NJPW to leaning to CMLL.

Anyway, I can't see Taven not re-signing unless WWE makes him an offer (hey, crazier things have happened). I doubt any other company would want him.

Offline Baby Shoes

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #432 on: August 30, 2019, 01:00:21 PM »
Joe Keys = Next Top Guy
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Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #433 on: September 04, 2019, 06:25:43 AM »
I can't tell if that gimmick is so bad, it's good or legit good.

Also it turns out Marty Scurll's contract expires two months after Matt Taven's. So Taven winning the ROH World Title match at MSG makes even less sense.

*facepalm*

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #434 on: September 04, 2019, 06:29:54 AM »
As I stated before, unless the E offers Taven a deal, no way he's not re-signing with ROH. Marty will for sure bolt and join his Elite buddies in AEW (yes, even though his girlfriend works in NXT).

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #435 on: September 04, 2019, 06:34:47 AM »
From sounds of it, I don't think Taven resigning with ROH is a sure thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see him join his OG Kingdom buddies in WWE.

And even assuming Scurll leaves, you'd have had EIGHT MONTHS for him to have a title run and build up Rush or Jeff Cobb or whoever to dethrone him. I can understand an eight week long lame duck period for a guy leaving the company but an eight month is ridiculous.

Hot take: I'm not sure that Scurll won't go to WWE. It doesn't seem like he's a super integral part of the Elite plus his girlfriend and the fact that WWE has signed a buttload of UK Talent makes me think he's just as likely to go to WWE as AEW. I still think he leans AEW but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he goes to WWE.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #436 on: September 04, 2019, 07:55:52 AM »
From sounds of it, I don't think Taven resigning with ROH is a sure thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see him join his OG Kingdom buddies in WWE.

And even assuming Scurll leaves, you'd have had EIGHT MONTHS for him to have a title run and build up Rush or Jeff Cobb or whoever to dethrone him. I can understand an eight week long lame duck period for a guy leaving the company but an eight month is ridiculous.

Hot take: I'm not sure that Scurll won't go to WWE. It doesn't seem like he's a super integral part of the Elite plus his girlfriend and the fact that WWE has signed a buttload of UK Talent makes me think he's just as likely to go to WWE as AEW. I still think he leans AEW but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he goes to WWE.

All of this.

I felt it was a given Marty would get the title months ago and instead it went to Taven.  I don't know a lot on Taven but Marty grew up a WWE and while he may get a better push on AEW at a more regular/higher spot on the card, he could be just as likely to get lost in the shuffle at this point.

I would not be shocked if WWE picked him up in November to be the guy in traditional NXT.  I can't see him going to UK at first but they have not done much with Deonna yet.  The Villain and The Virtuosa could run NXT.  Pretty sure he is already in Florida as Chelsea Green and Deonna are best friends and by association, him and Zack Ryder are super tight.  He has just struck me as another guy that may not be as concerned about his spot on the card so long as he can say he "got to the show".

I think it is more likely he goes to AEW but think there is still a good chance he could land a good, if not better, spot somewhere in the WWE hierarchy.
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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #437 on: September 04, 2019, 07:58:04 AM »
If Taven and Marty both bounce, who will be the guy in ROH? They can't push Jay Lethal forever (but they'll damn sure try!)

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #438 on: September 04, 2019, 08:00:15 AM »
If Taven and Marty both bounce, who will be the guy in ROH? They can't push Jay Lethal forever (but they'll damn sure try!)

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #439 on: September 04, 2019, 08:01:43 AM »
I think one of the very few good things about ROH in 2019 is they genuinely seem like they're making a strong play for the Latinx market. I'm guessing/hoping Rush wins the World Title at Death Before Dishonor and they try to make him the face of ROH in the 2020s. He'd be a good if not great choice to build the company around.

Also it is fucking odd that ROH is pushing all of these CMLL guys when they're owned by Trump adoring Sinclair Media.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #440 on: September 04, 2019, 08:07:00 AM »
They are going to give Rush the belt, only to tell him they won't renew his work visa until he cuts a pro-wall promo

Rush is one of the few guys that gets my attention these days, I just don't know enough on the CMLL agreement to know how long it will last. 

They seem to have a few guys they clearly like such as Taylor and Hot Sauce, as my assumptions are on recent booking.  I assumed Villain Enterprises was intended to build Brody and PCO up as top guys for Marty's inevitable departure.
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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #441 on: September 04, 2019, 09:47:05 AM »
Marty and Deonna broke up a few months ago. I used to think she'd be the reason he went there, but after they broke up, not sure as much now. He still does stuff with his buddies in The Elite. I can see him and Flip heading to AEW. Brody King might go, too, as he's been great with Marty, but he loves NJPW too much right now.
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Offline Kamala Has Delaney Fever

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #442 on: September 04, 2019, 11:38:42 AM »
Medium warm take: of all the Elite guys BESIDES Cody (who has obviously was already there), I think Marty Scurll seems like the best fit for WWE.

Just something about energy and his presentation makes me think he'd fit in more seemlessly in McMahonland than Kenny Omega. Maybe not WrestleMania main event level fit but like NXT Takeover main event level, at least.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #443 on: September 04, 2019, 10:32:02 PM »
Medium warm take: of all the Elite guys BESIDES Cody (who has obviously was already there), I think Marty Scurll seems like the best fit for WWE.

Just something about energy and his presentation makes me think he'd fit in more seemlessly in McMahonland than Kenny Omega. Maybe not WrestleMania main event level fit but like NXT Takeover level, at least.

I've always thought that. His gimmick is ready made for big time TV. He knows how to play to a TV crowd better than most guys today. He works that style perfectly.
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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #444 on: September 05, 2019, 12:19:16 AM »
Another reason why him not going over at MSG is stupid. Marty Scurll is as tailor made for a NYC audience as any guy from Cambridge, England can be. I saw one of if not his first ROH match at Hammerstein Ballroom in 2016 and crowd just immediately latched onto him as their guy.

I don't really want to hear the "ROH put x guy over cause he's more likely to resign with them" anymore cause at this point, I don't think nobody but nobody is a shoo in to resign with ROH except maybe some undesirables like Shane Taylor and most of the ROH Dojo goofs.


Well, at least Bully Ray has been off ROH TV for a while.

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #445 on: September 14, 2019, 04:49:51 PM »
Wait - Rhett Titus is working the grizzled vet/family man gimmick now?

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