Author Topic: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension  (Read 14668 times)

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Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #350 on: April 24, 2019, 10:37:54 AM »
Also remember that ROH actually wanted that match to be the last on the card and not Okada regaining the IWGP title. can you imagine?

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #351 on: April 24, 2019, 11:21:13 AM »
Nothing like having the biggest show of your company's history, and you want to send the fans home pissed off.
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Offline Baby Shoes

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #352 on: April 24, 2019, 01:10:48 PM »
Yeah, I saw the AXS version and the match was perfectly fine.  I love Marty and still have a soft spot for Jay Lethal.  Solid but unspectacular just the big thing was they made the worst booking choice possible.  Fans would’ve eaten up Marty but if he’s heading out, I get it.  Lethal retaining would’ve been fine.  I don’t know if I’ve come across anyone that genuinely cares for or is pulling for Taven.  He is that guy who should be upper midcard at best that the company strangely overvalues.
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Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #353 on: April 24, 2019, 10:40:19 PM »
To me, Taven is a living, breathing, create a wrestler. He's perfectly ok in the ring, but a black hole of charisma, which is really interesting. I was at the G1 Fanfest the Friday before the show. He hosted a portion of the show, and he was actually really good. He was likable, and funny, and the complete opposite of everything we see on tv.
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Offline Avid Enthusiast of Warehouses

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #354 on: April 25, 2019, 12:50:09 AM »
Taven is a killer dude when he's in more intimate settings. I remember actually liking Mike Bennett because he was paired with Taven for a short while. Taven's biggest obstacle is that he's best served as an upper-mid foil, like Baby Shoes said, and it's even worse because TK O'Reilly is part of his team and better in every way (still super green, though).

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #355 on: April 25, 2019, 07:15:08 AM »
Matt Taven is good in a midcard/tag team shit heel role but nothing about him screams top heel in a major promotion.

Having seen him in Beyond, he's a lot better in a small show setting where he's allowed to go more off the cuff. He can be pretty funny but his royalty character seems way too scripted and is played too cheesily.

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #356 on: April 25, 2019, 10:12:20 AM »
Watching the rest of the AXS TV edit of G1 Supercard and damn, ROH must've really fucked bad in whatever 30 to 60 minutes weren't shown of the show cause it looked like a Card of the Year candidate with strictly the NJPW Stuff (plus the ROH Title Match). The worst match was *** and everything was at worst, very good.

One complaint that I think I can point the blame towards ROH is the overstuffed commentary team. Whoever thought a four man booth (I think FIVE MAN booth when Nick Aldis or Chris Charlton were sitting)  with TWO PBP guys was fine should be slapped. And they picked the wrong two color guys. Caprice Coleman I barely even noticed was there. I would've done Riccaboni with Rocky Romero or Excalibur.  Colt Cabana is normally fine but seemed way too hard at trying to make subtle WWE digs at the show.

Offline The Valeyard

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #357 on: April 25, 2019, 10:20:08 AM »
The guest commentators were a huge problem. Caprice and Colt trying to be funny did not work and was annoying as shit. I did like Aldis in the sense he was just commentating like a world champion, where he'd talk about how he'd beat guys and point out mistakes that he'd exploit and just be a dick heel. He called it like a wrestler, if that makes sense, instead of more or less trying to be a personality.

As a person slowly getting into the modern puro era and as someone who hadn't seen ROH in quite a long time, I got whiplash. Most bush league ROH has felt since the old Sugarfoot days. Best ROH moment was by far PCO's fucking stupid bump, then the Taker situp, and immediately going right back down.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #358 on: April 25, 2019, 10:44:54 AM »
Ian and Kevin weren't bad when they were the focus of the commentary. Aldis is very, very good, especially when he's heeling out. I would have loved to have Rocky there, as he's been fantastic with Kevin since he joined the booth. His first day was bumpy, but after that, he's a natural. I love that he really is down the middle. He marks out of ZSJ despite him being a heel, and hates BUSHI, but loves the rest of LIJ.
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Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #359 on: April 25, 2019, 10:53:50 AM »
Kevin Kelly is probably my least favorite PBP guy for a major company. He constantly yells as if he's about throw to commercial for no reason and I hate when he pretends to GET VERY OUTRAGED AT WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE SCREEN!

Ian Riccaboni is basically a younger, better version of Kelly. Having them both in the booth together is just very dumb. It's not just two PBP guys but two PBP with the same type of style and tone (Ian is also very annoying when HE IS GETTING OUTRAGED AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE RING!).

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #360 on: April 28, 2019, 02:22:11 AM »
So the NJPW guys they're lending for the War of the Worlds tour this year...Evil & Sanada, Hiroki Goto, Satoshi Kojima, Yuji Nagata, and the GOD & Hikuleo (plus the two NJPW LA Young Lions).

Yeesh. Usually, NJPW sends a sleepwalking Naito or Tanahashi for these tours. I like all of these guys but it's B- team at best. I don't think any of these shows will break over four digits in terms of attendance.

Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #361 on: May 09, 2019, 10:10:40 AM »
I'm at the show in Toronto right now. Is this being streamed?

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #362 on: May 09, 2019, 11:36:26 AM »
I'm at the show in Toronto right now. Is this being streamed?

It is. Yesterday, today, and Saturday's shows are all being streamed.
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Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #363 on: May 10, 2019, 03:13:52 AM »
That's awesome! I had no idea they even showed these particular house shows. Either way it was a great card. I dunno if it was because we were in Canada, but PCO was super over.

Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #364 on: May 10, 2019, 03:16:50 AM »
My only gripe with the show was the women's division only getting a segment and not an actual match. Felt like a disservice IMO.

Offline Avid Enthusiast of Warehouses

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #365 on: May 10, 2019, 05:42:20 AM »
Not when you realize the Women of Honor division is outshined by even CZW's.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #366 on: May 10, 2019, 05:42:40 AM »
My only gripe with the show was the women's division only getting a segment and not an actual match. Felt like a disservice IMO.

The WOH division is shit, and it's headlined by an awful wrestler as their champion vs a bad rehash of an Impact team, with the missing Bella (but even worse wrestler) as their leader. The disservice is that they just haven't killed the division yet.
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Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #367 on: May 10, 2019, 06:47:46 AM »
Well, in my defense, I've never seen their division. Had no idea it was that much of a clusterfuck.

Offline Avid Enthusiast of Warehouses

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #368 on: May 10, 2019, 08:00:45 AM »
It's...not very good at all, actually. At least the lame ME scene for the men still has a few personalities in it, whereas WOH has a lot of "wait, who are they?" types that accompanies pedestrian work.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #369 on: May 10, 2019, 10:38:01 AM »
The interesting thing is the women they bring in for one off matches, or a few and let walk, has more talent. They had Twisted Sisters (Holidead and Thunder Rosa), Kris Stratlander, and some other talented women, but keep Kelly Klein and Mandy Leone instead.
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Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #370 on: May 10, 2019, 12:53:45 PM »
Is Emma/Tenille still with them?

Offline Fall of Epic

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #371 on: May 10, 2019, 12:54:53 PM »
She's gone, expected to sign with AEW.

I hate Shane Taylor so how was the pop when he won the TV title?

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #372 on: May 10, 2019, 01:05:02 PM »
She's gone, expected to sign with AEW.

I hate Shane Taylor so how was the pop when he won the TV title?

There were A LOT of surprised people. I'm sure everyone expected Cobb to retain. You could hear every, "What?!" when he got the pin on Brody.
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Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #373 on: May 11, 2019, 01:38:04 AM »
Yah, the section I was in was baffled to the point where they thought it was a miscount on the refs part.

Offline Fall of Epic

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #374 on: May 11, 2019, 12:23:04 PM »
I'll never understand ROH's obsession with that dude. He was never anything more than Keith Lee's tag partner in the indies before Lee smartened up and left him.

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #375 on: May 13, 2019, 09:36:41 AM »
Shane Taylor has gotten marginally better in the past six months or so but it'd be hard not to get better given how hard ROH is shoving him down the fans throats.

In 2019, it's sometimes nice to see a big man who wrestles like a big man. But I don't think ol' Shane wouldn't be considered a great big man in any era.

Only silver lining to Cobb losing the title is that
Spoiler: show
per the last TV Taping spoiler, it looks like ROH is building to Cobb winning the World Title from Matt Taven.

Of course, knowing ROH, Taven could just go over Jeff Cobb then I'd quit watching ROH life probably

Offline RedJed

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #376 on: May 14, 2019, 01:17:27 AM »
Yeah, I'm baffled at Taylor going over. If they wanted to give him a TV title run, why not just have him beat Cobb at the last ppv?

I suppose IF (and that's a big IF) the plan is for Cobb to beat Taven soon, then I get the result (protecting Cobb) but otherwise what are they thinking here. I get the idea of trying to get new talent over, but with both Taven and Taylor....they are workers who are not seen as credible by the core fanbase, which is quickly seeming to dwindle away. I don't get this strategy at all. It's making me, who is a pretty hardcore ROH fan, very unenthusiastic about things when you have incredible talent like Rush and Bandido being underutilized and barely pushed and then you got these unover heels with the titles. It just isn't working.

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #377 on: May 28, 2019, 08:36:55 AM »
So Jonathan Gresham is working without a contract. So that's another guy that I imagine ROH will let slip through their fingers. Gresham I assume would just straight up to go to NJPW as I don't see him fitting into either AEW or WWE.

I watched the 400th episode the other day and man, it was 2001 WCW/1995 WWF levels lifeless. I know they've had anemic attendance at their live events this year but this was first TV taping where it was obvious that there was no amount of camera tricks they could do to hide the huge swaths of emptiness.

Workrate is still good but storylines are just headscratchers. Who thought doing a heel pretends that he's blind angle would work in 2019? Is Matt Taven's character supposed to be that he actually IS the best wrestler in the world or if he is still chickenshit? Shades of gray are fine and all but I mostly feel like their storylines are asking questions that they don't have the answer to?

Also why did they debut a shitty knockoff of the GoD when the actual GoD is on the roster?

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #378 on: May 28, 2019, 09:08:18 AM »
I'd love to see Gresh stay in Japan. He's doing great over there in the BOSJ. Although it'd be dope to see him follow his finace over to Impact.

I haven't watched ROH in about 3 or 4 weeks, and I don't miss it at all. I'll eventually get back to watching it, but I just don't have the care right now.
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Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #379 on: June 03, 2019, 09:17:03 AM »
https://www.cagesideseats.com/2019/6/3/18650881/bully-ray-security-backstage-intimidate-fan-heckled-velvet-sky-roh-investigation
Bully Ray allegedly had a fan brought backstage to scold him after they were too mean to his girlfriend.

Hard to believe this is the same guy who used to call everybody a faggot and start riots everywhere.

In a mildly related note, I read that even taking into account the 16,000 people that were at MSG for Supercard of Honor,  ROH is attendance is less than half of what it was at this point last year. I knew it'd be a hard fall after The Bucks and Cody left but I'm not sure if I thought it'd be this hard.

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #380 on: June 03, 2019, 09:18:48 AM »
Whoops

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #381 on: June 03, 2019, 09:22:42 AM »
There were 200-300 people at their show this weekend (can't remember if it was Saturday or last night).
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Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #382 on: June 03, 2019, 09:41:13 AM »


Bully Ray's response.

IWC this weekend: WWE is the worst at handling fan relations.

ROH: Hold my beer.

Offline geniusMoment

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #383 on: June 03, 2019, 10:10:30 AM »
I imagine Velvet has heard tons of disgusting remarks going back to the TNA days.  And I'm sure Mandy has heard tons as well.  If what this fan did was so vile that it caused Velvet to report to Bully and Mandy to actually spit on the fan I can only imagine how horrible it was.  There is about a 90% chance this fan is a total creep.
Randy!

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #384 on: June 04, 2019, 08:59:17 AM »
https://teespring.com/backstage-day#pid=2&cid=2122&sid=front


Suggest Wrestling Merchandise For People to Buy thread crosspost.


Even if the dude was gross, it seems like awful protocol to handle it by having wrestlers take the fans backstage to give them a stern talking to. Soooooooo many things could have happened to make that incident gone worse than it did.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #385 on: June 04, 2019, 11:18:33 AM »
Quote
IWC this weekend: WWE is the worst at handling fan relations.

ROH: Hold my beer.

As bad as wwe is they don't hold a candle to most of the industry tbh. the carny roots still run deep.

Offline Avid Enthusiast of Warehouses

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #386 on: June 04, 2019, 11:38:53 AM »
Personally, I think Ray should've slugged him.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #387 on: June 04, 2019, 11:41:56 AM »
I don't think Ray should have done something that could have gotten himself arrested, and then sued and fired and the company sued. That would have really improved the situation!

Responding to a POS with violence in that situation doesn't help in the least. It hands them a victory.

Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #388 on: June 04, 2019, 03:51:49 PM »
So what did this dude say?

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #389 on: June 05, 2019, 12:26:42 AM »


Dude who Bully Ray took backstage, claimed he was only doing standard heel heckling to Allure and worst thing he said was a response to Velvet calling him a virgin that was something like "At least, I don't fuck Bully Ray"

Allure on Twitter claims he was saying lewd and gross stuff.

Funniest theory on what culprit of dispute was, I heard on Twitter was that Mandy Leon was pissed at the fan over an argument they had on Twitter months earlier over him joking about the watermarks on her photos.


Also I didn't know Mandy Leon was (allegedly) dating Delirious. Grosssssssss
In an unrelated note: I spend too much time reading wrestling Twitter.

Offline Fall of Epic

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #390 on: June 05, 2019, 12:31:53 AM »

Now there's a story of this woman accusing an unnamed ROH talent of sexually harassing her. Whole story is in the Twitter thread.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #391 on: June 05, 2019, 12:32:35 AM »
this whole thing is incredibly embarrassing no matter what the guy was saying tbh. Although it's nice in a way to know wrestling will always have these hilariously stupid stories.

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #392 on: June 05, 2019, 12:37:44 AM »
Like I said earlier, there's at least a 50% chance that this dude is fibbing and was actually being gross instead of just doing standard heckling. But even if he was being gross and a horny sex pervert, that's why ROH hires security guards.

Way it was handled it was just baffling. Bully Ray slugging the guy would have been way worse obviously but at least I could understand where that solution was coming from. What was Bully Ray hoping to accomplish by lecturing the dude? Just so weird/dumb.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #393 on: June 05, 2019, 12:55:16 AM »
Pretty much, this is Bully Ray getting upset someone said something to his girlfriend and got pissed. They way he handled it was 100% wrong. Talent doesn't ask security to have fans brought to the back to "talk" to them. This whole thing has turned into a mess for ROH, although I'm sure, like every wrestling story, it'll be over in the next few days and people will forget about it.
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Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #394 on: June 14, 2019, 11:01:54 AM »
ROH is in real trouble. NY is usually a great place for them. Their ticket sales for their July show is dreadful

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Offline RedJed

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #395 on: June 19, 2019, 06:59:39 AM »
Wow, yeah if they can't even draw in NYC they are certainly in major trouble, I agree.

Really, you have seen a noticeable drop even before the AEW guys left, as I know when I was at the ROH ppv in Vegas last Sept, the arena was only a third full and this was for a pretty decent ppv lineup. But since Final Battle, the attendance drops month to month since then have been eye opening as I still try to keep a look at things via Honor Club shows. The TV tapings really have looked terrible crowd-wise too for quite some time now too.

What is it going to take to get ROH back in a good direction? Creatively, there is a huge wall up here too. The guys they brought in to replace Cody, Bucks, Page, etc have all floundered in this company with very uninspiring booking. Scurll perhaps is being intentionally held down to make him as irrelevent whenever he's done and obviously AEW bound. Same with Flip. Hardly anyone is getting over here. Now had read Juice Robinson is so meh about ROH in general he's refused to work with them anymore. This might be a trend that continues with other talent if it keeps up, particularly NJPW guys who were kinda leased out to work for ROH too.

I also could see if this keeps up.....ROH will lose the partnership with NJPW and CMLL if their numbers continue to suffer. It's going to become not worth the investment to these companies to be attached to a very ice cold US company that offers no incentive to continue with.

The PPV next weekend will be a huge barometer if they can creatively turn this around first and foremost. Getting titles onto Cobb and Bandido and FUCKING PUSH RUSH AS THE STAR HE IS. These talented guys have hardly any presence in this company.

Offline Baby Shoes

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #396 on: June 22, 2019, 11:11:45 AM »
I’d like to think 2019 ROH means we have a good chance of El Hijo Del Squid Jr has a good chance of being the one to beat Taven for the belt.
[img width=800

Quote
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Kevin Nash: Kidman wears a wife beater

Offline Boomer Kamala

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #397 on: June 24, 2019, 09:23:44 AM »
ROH is airing the Flip Gordon Vs Rush match on Friday's PPV for free on Facebook Live.

I guess it's a great way to get eyes on the product when that's sorely needed but I think putting the 2nd or 3rd most anticipated match on a PPV for free is a desperation move.

Offline RedJed

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #398 on: June 27, 2019, 01:17:51 AM »
ROH is airing the Flip Gordon Vs Rush match on Friday's PPV for free on Facebook Live.

I guess it's a great way to get eyes on the product when that's sorely needed but I think putting the 2nd or 3rd most anticipated match on a PPV for free is a desperation move.

And a bad move at that. The crowd probably wont even be full for that match so it will suffer and ultimately, putting any match on a preshow in desperate attempts at last minute buys is not thinking outside the box here for ROH. Their core base is going to be ordering the ppv regardless and this isn't going to change anything with that. It's a weird move that really doesn't make any fucking sense other than its going to affect the flow of that show. Rush and Flip deserve better than a preshow match too, so much more.

Offline RedJed

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Re: ROH: Not Just a NJPW Brand Extension
« Reply #399 on: June 27, 2019, 12:08:40 PM »
In additional ROH going downward news....per pwtorch.con

 Tickets are not moving well for the Best in the World PPV this Friday. I would estimate they have sold around 700 tickets sold in a big venue that can hold around 5,000 fans for a concert. That’s not good in a venue that size even if they configure the arena a certain way, it’s going to be tough to make 700 fans look good on PPV this Friday. In more positive news for the company, ROH has only around 160 tickets last as of earlier today for the TV tapings in Philadelphia on June 29.