Author Topic: The Meltzer Thread  (Read 3326 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
The Meltzer Thread
« on: November 10, 2018, 07:04:56 AM »
I've thought about making a thread on Meltzer for awhile but after how bad the thread on his comments on peyton got I backed off. However he's been on a roll lately and I thought it'd be good for discussion.

I've always thought highly of Meltzer as a journalist, however since he's gotten on twitter he's turned into a pretty big troll and he's also been using it to really push certain pet myths of his:



Dave has always insisted that Misawa and Jumbo did not work hard on house shows and smaller shows. People used to accept this when there wasn't as much footage available but there is now and it's been proven totally wrong.

There was also this stuff about HBK last week:



I'd agree Shawn can't touch Tanahashi but Ospreay? He's grown on me but he's not anywhere near that level. Shawn also was working with lower quality opponents quite often throughout his career and getting a lot out of them which isn't something I've seen Ospreay really do.

There's a lot more out there but I think that's enough for now I think.

Offline JN News

  • CXF's Resident Schizo.
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 219
  • JN News
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 07:07:03 AM »
Does Meltz know who was the brain child of the WWE Network?

Offline Angle-plex

  • Hey....it's sexy.....
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 3,273
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 07:55:52 AM »
Melzter also take steroids and lies about it

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2018, 10:46:00 AM »

Now he's including Kawada! Ah shit bro.

Offline Thrasher

  • Owner of Too Many Jerseys
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,329
  • All hail Gritty!
    • Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2018, 02:26:27 PM »
Someone said that Meltzer doesn't have sources in the WWE, so he puts them down. I believe it.
Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought

http://sportsfinds.blogspot.com

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2018, 04:31:49 PM »
I think its more that meltzer knows his fanbase hates WWE outside of a few guys and he caters to that viewpoiint to an extreme point. He also just doesn't "get" a lot of WWE stuff sometimes in a way that's weird. He doesn't understand large elements of the Miz's character and can't handle when Miz (the delusional heel let's remember) talks about Bryan or AJ working bingo halls.

Offline Brodypedia

  • BruiserBrody
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,951
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2018, 10:14:59 PM »
I enjoy Meltz (recent?) gimmick of waiting for a story to break, then telling us who pay him 10 bucks a month that he knew about it before it was announced.


Offline Harley Quinn

  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,943
    • Culture Crossfire
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2018, 06:42:52 AM »
I get some of the hate on Shawn Michaels but at the same time, Michaels had a lot of great years where he was having quality matches when given actual opponents to work with especially in the mid 90s when the selection was like 15% of what today can bust out almost weekly.

Admittedly I'm a mark for him but seeing some of his house show matches from 1993-1997 proves he'd not only go all out at "unaired" events but he had a lot of gems against guys he rarely fought on TV or at PPVs.

I feel like Meltzer in particular downgrades the work of HBK in part because he was a "face" of mainstream WWF/WWE in 2 different eras, both eras in which the product elsewhere was at an arguable peak of wrestling quality (early to mid 90s AJPW/NJPW and Indies/ROH in the early to mid 2000s). Yet you go by TV/PPV and Michaels is in a ton of highly rated/best of WWF/E match lists by the end of years.

Offline Dave Meltzer

  • New Poster Who Should Be Posting
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • New Poster Who'll Post A Lot
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 04:20:20 AM »
I stand by all of my journalism.  CWM is just a hater.  He should fall into a hole and die.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2018, 10:32:23 AM »

I really like Omega/Ibushi. There's been some fantastic stuff. That said, the idea it's the best or one of the best storylines in wrestling history is a real step too far for me personally. It might not be for a lot of people because I've seen it from a lot of others. I think people pick and choose some of the older DDT stuff to fit a bigger cohesive narrative that wasn't always there though.



Gargano/Black was not a bad match. But it was nothing like those styles. NOAH has some pretty big differences now from the others tbh. Gargano/Black had a lot of WWE storyline stuff in it that you'd never see in a BJPW Strong match.


The All In crowd was cool (and I hope they had a great night! but aside from both being really loud and passionate, they're totally different. Dave does this a lot, trying to compare the Japanese audience and the NXT/Indie audience even when it doesn't work. Or to say the WWE ppv crowds are "mainstream" when it's at least half the same people who were at NXT the night before probably.

I'm being nitpicky with the second and third tweets a bit but the first I think is especially worth talking about. There are so many great long term wrestling feuds that going with Omega/Ibushi is hard to support.

Offline Dave Meltzer

  • New Poster Who Should Be Posting
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • New Poster Who'll Post A Lot
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2018, 10:34:52 AM »
I wish Damaramu still posted here.  He's always had my back!

Offline Brodypedia

  • BruiserBrody
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,951
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 01:02:14 PM »
Today WOR: Poor Alvarez (a wrestler) tried to talk about what Lance Storm said about working a spot and Hurricane Meltzer has to suck all the air out of the room with his traditional "Butttttetetteetetteteteeteteteteteteteteetteetetteetee" until Bryan gives up having a conversation and just let Dave ramble.

Melter's review of the meaningless tag match at the Survivor Series was also horrid radio full of a record number of pauses, ummms, and ahhhs, which dragged out the review far longer than anyone could possible care.

And I give him my money every month because I'm a dipshit.

Offline JHawk

  • Jim Cornette Guy
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,108
  • Thank You, Fuck You, Bye!
    • Smart Mark Radio
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 12:53:27 AM »
He gets my money every month because that archive is an invaluable historical resource.

I don't listen to any of the radio shows except B&V and I can't remember the last time I did that.

Offline Epic by Faith No More

  • Reine of Terror
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,806
  • Epic Reine
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 06:18:45 AM »

Offline Brodypedia

  • BruiserBrody
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,951
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 07:50:18 AM »

Offline Firmino of the 909

  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,056
  • 909
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2018, 07:57:19 AM »
The part where he compared himself to Oscar Robertson is INSANE


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2018, 08:58:13 AM »
Oh man that's fantastic. Half of Dave's tweets seem to be "If I'm so bad then why does so and so say I'm so great" or listing all his credits lately. It comes off really lame because he's just arguing with morons on twitter who don't care about that shit and it makes him sound really insecure.

Offline Thrasher

  • Owner of Too Many Jerseys
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,329
  • All hail Gritty!
    • Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2018, 10:28:56 AM »
I think if you've watched all the wrestling he has, you'll go insane.

Edit: I figured it out. Dave has turned into one of those film critics that hates mainstream movies and thinks every art house movie is amazing.
Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought

http://sportsfinds.blogspot.com

Offline Harley Quinn

  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,943
    • Culture Crossfire
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2018, 02:30:36 AM »
Thought this was kind of interesting as it's a weight of how much should X-Factors impact a match (Card it takes place on, Audience size/hotness, etc.). Everybody raved about the Benoit/Malenko Hog Wild match in front of a biker heavy, dead crowd but put that in front of a slightly hotter crowd and would it hew closer to 4 and 1/2 to 5* instead?


Offline no fact, no matter

  • •d•u•b•q•
  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,833
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2018, 10:46:25 PM »
The dementia is real.

You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2018, 06:19:25 AM »
oh man I was coming in here to post that man. One of his dumbest tweets easily, without even getting into which guy was a better worker (the njpw guy in every case!). I love all 6 guys but that comparison doesn't work beyond the very basic idea that all were promoted as an important three in their promotion. But beyond that it falls apart so fast in a myriad of ways.

Offline Two-Time Hall of Famer

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
  • Kreese
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2018, 06:49:04 AM »
Can't believe he called Chono trash like that

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2018, 07:14:33 AM »
All of the NJPW guys were worlds ahead of the WWE guys as complete packages. Seth/Mutoh is maybe the closest to being a reasonable comparison of similar talents and it still really isn't at all (and that's only part of the equation). The Dean/Chono comparison is hilariously bad but I think the Roman/Hashimoto one is the stupidest. I would kind of like to see a pic of Roman dressed like hashimoto though.

Offline Thrasher

  • Owner of Too Many Jerseys
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,329
  • All hail Gritty!
    • Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2018, 02:07:15 PM »
Howard Finkel shouldn't get in before Gary Michael Cappetta.  :)

Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought

http://sportsfinds.blogspot.com

Offline Epic by Faith No More

  • Reine of Terror
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,806
  • Epic Reine
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2018, 01:24:53 PM »

Offline Thrasher

  • Owner of Too Many Jerseys
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,329
  • All hail Gritty!
    • Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2018, 05:40:08 AM »
Serious question: How come the Steiner Brothers aren't in the HOF? They've wrestled everywhere and won every championship.
Sport Finds Blog - My blog where I post the licensed gear I bought

http://sportsfinds.blogspot.com

Offline Epic by Faith No More

  • Reine of Terror
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,806
  • Epic Reine
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2018, 07:47:07 AM »
I'm not really familiar with the voting and judging criteria of the Observer HOF. Is it fan voted? Meltzer's preference? People in the industry voting?

Offline Baby Shoes

  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,772
  • Baby Shoes
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2018, 07:49:10 AM »
Serious question: How come the Steiner Brothers aren't in the HOF? They've wrestled everywhere and won every championship.

Well, I typed this up thinking of the WWE Hal of Fame, not realizing I was in the Observer thead... Figure I will post this out of context post now anyway...

I couldn't find the video clip I was looking for but Scott Steiner has been pretty vocal in his hate and disdain of HHH.  Not sure if it stems from his 2003-04 run but Steiner basically talked about HHH getting the bronze Flair statue made so he could keep it in his bedroom and has trashed HHH across the board in several interviews the past few years.  I don't think he has trashed Vince, that I remember but I think in some of his rants he made allusions to Macho Man banging Stephanie too.  Rick probably just saddled by association but Scott has created some public bad blood and also trashed the Hall of Fame in recent years.
[img width=800

Quote
Fan: WHY CAN REY BEAT BIG GUYS BUT NOT KIDMAN
Kevin Nash: Kidman wears a wife beater

Offline Detective Ventriloquist

  • My name's not fucking Warren
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13,689
  • Canadian Destroyer213
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2018, 07:54:51 AM »
I'm not really familiar with the voting and judging criteria of the Observer HOF. Is it fan voted? Meltzer's preference? People in the industry voting?

It's voted on by people in the industry, I believe other reporters and such.
2012 TRTSM Fantasy Hockey Champion

Offline Epic by Faith No More

  • Reine of Terror
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,806
  • Epic Reine
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2018, 07:56:15 AM »
Scott is one of the very few people in wrestling who seemingly doesn't give a shit about his standing in WWE or his legacy in general. He's doing ok with his restaurant and seems to be self-aware of the numerous memes and parodies made from his promos over the last few years.

Also keep in mind that Scott hates Hogan with a passion. Not that it matters now because Hogan will probably never return in a prominent role in the company anytime soon but they keep trying to think of ways to ease him back in (Crown Jewel).

Offline Two-Time Hall of Famer

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
  • Kreese
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2018, 08:47:00 AM »
Quote
Wrestlers are supposed to be judged on four major criteria, positive historical importance to the business, drawing power, in-ring ability and longevity. A Hall of Famer should be strong in all four of those categories, but if they were one of the dominant standouts on a worldwide basis is one of those categories they also should be voted in. Longevity, however, without having major positive historical importance to the business, drawing power and in-ring ability, should be viewed as meaningless.

Quote
Voters are usually in one of four categories, historians, reporters, and those who are or have worked in the profession.

However the 1996 inaugural class was pretty much selected entirely by Meltzer with assistance from Torch contributor turned annoying PWO poster John D. Williams.

Offline Brodypedia

  • BruiserBrody
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,951

Offline Two-Time Hall of Famer

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
  • Kreese
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2018, 10:57:45 PM »
The people constantly harping on the Mabel thing are missing important context. At the time from a storyline standpoint there was no expectation that the third man would be the leader of the group - only a defector from the WWF. Within WCW, Hogan only agreed to the turn about 11 days before Bash at the Beach. I can believe that Bischoff had discussions with Hall and Nash about who their partner would be, and I don't think he would have told them about Hogan until he was sure it was happening, so I can see him listening to suggestions regarding who was available and humoring Nash and Hall's ideas while knowing in the back of his head what the real plan was. Meltzer did report that Hogan was likely to be the third man the week before the event. This is not the trump card you guys think it is.

Very impressive that Bruce Prichard has ruined wrestling discourse online. I wouldn't have thought he would be the one to do it.

Offline Brodypedia

  • BruiserBrody
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,951
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2018, 12:14:31 AM »
I learned to dislike Dave on my own.  By giving him lots of money. And hearing words I didn't like. So I kept listening. Um.Um. Um. Um. YeahYeahyeahyeahyeahyeahyeah. I was already told it was going to happen. Seven stars.

Offline no fact, no matter

  • •d•u•b•q•
  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,833
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2018, 05:07:02 AM »
Pretty sure he had said he talks and enunciates like that because of anxiety, no?
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2018, 05:09:19 AM »
the mabel stuff is really silly. the people who constantly harp on it like it's some huge smoking gun are terrible and dave is terrible for constantly feeding them. If all Dave said was that Mabel was the top guy discussed by them in a meeting that really isn't anything like "Dave said Mabel was the third man" or anything near it.


Offline Brodypedia

  • BruiserBrody
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,951
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2018, 10:07:57 AM »
Pretty sure he had said he talks and enunciates like that because of anxiety, no?

Bryan has been his radio partner for 19 years and he can't allow him to say a point during discussions. Granted Alvarez is out to lunch most of the time, but still.

Offline Epic by Faith No More

  • Reine of Terror
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,806
  • Epic Reine
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2019, 07:45:52 AM »
Invalid Tweet ID

Offline Brodypedia

  • BruiserBrody
  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,951
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2019, 09:54:47 PM »
Livin' it up in the MMA bubble:


Offline Fan of Sports with Integrity

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,036
  • Your POV
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2019, 09:57:38 PM »
Anyone who thinks Ronda is more influential than Serena is probably a bit racist...which we already knew about Dave.

Offline Harley Quinn

  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,943
    • Culture Crossfire
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2019, 11:12:06 PM »
I feel like Mia Hamm kind of gets undersold there IMO. She was arguably the face of Women's Soccer at least in America for the entirety of the 1990s.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2019, 11:15:47 PM »
Always happy to shit on Dave for being racist, but I think this is at least as much a case of his obsession with combat sports

Offline AA484

  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,119
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2019, 11:16:52 PM »
When it comes to who influenced more young girls/women to take up their respective sport?  Serena is ahead in every other metric I can think of but this one may be closer than we think.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

  • Poster of the Year
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16,803
  • CWM
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2019, 11:21:07 PM »
If he had been specific like that he might have had an argument but Meltzer is never specific like that, which is why he's so frustrating. He just assumes everyone will know what he really means.

Offline muzzington

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2,550
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2019, 12:33:54 AM »
Sounds like a most influential American female athlete discussion.

Offline Epic by Faith No More

  • Reine of Terror
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,806
  • Epic Reine
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2019, 12:41:14 AM »
Nancy Kerrigan and Michelle Kwan need to be thrown in that hat. They made little girls believe for so long and actually got most who gave fuck all about ice skating to actually tune in. Also, Lisa Leslie also deserves a shout out.

Offline alkeiper

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7,712
  • Welcoming our new insect overlords
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2019, 01:02:32 AM »
Kerrigan and Kwan were good, but I don't know if they were transcendent. Serena Williams is iconic in a way that probably doesn't resonate as well with Caucasian males, but I can't imagine a female athlete who has attained a higher peak than her.

And Dave noted to today he did break his hand and is getting surgery today.

Offline AA484

  • CXF Writer
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,119
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2019, 01:17:04 AM »
One could also argue that Serena was more influential than Ronda in how people view female athletes.

Offline Two-Time Hall of Famer

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
  • Kreese
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2019, 04:31:11 AM »
Serena is more famous, and more people care about her athletic career, but Ronda was the main catalyst for the biggest league in her sport adding a women’s division. She isn’t more influential in the culture but it certainly can be argued that she is more influential in her sport. It’s probably best not to get too deep into these apples and oranges comparisons or else we will have a repeat of the PWO thread where they debated whether Hulk Hogan or Molly Ringwald would be more widely mourned when they die.

Offline Firmino of the 909

  • Admin
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,056
  • 909
Re: The Meltzer Thread
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2019, 04:59:43 AM »
My counter to that is how many of the top young women on tour state very clearly that Serena Williams is/was their idol. There are also now many more black women on tour. I don't think Ronda will ever have any such influence, but that's something that can only be judged many years down the line. I would also counter that women would have been fighting in the UFC at some point anyway and that almost all the top women in this sport started fighting before Ronda did. Dave and others are skewed by the combat sports lens, but tennis is a bigger sport worldwide by some distance, and it's the only one where the major events guarantee equal pay for women. That was also because of the Williams sisters.

I would also say that these are the only two women's sports I can think of where there isn't a discernible difference in the entertainment value between watching women and men.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest