Author Topic: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?  (Read 646 times)

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Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« on: January 12, 2019, 02:11:06 PM »
Detective Ventriloquist was posting on Facebook about watching a GCW match where someone got a needle stuck through their cheek. Yikes! It got me to thinking about my threshold for hardcore wrestling.

I don't think I was ever a Jim Cornette esque hater of garbage wrestling but I am kind of weak stomached. My tolerance has grown some over the past three and a half years of regularly attending indy shows. I really really enjoyed seeing a Matt Tremont Vs Matt Riddle thumbtacks match at a Beyond show a few years back cause the storyline they had justified it.

I like hardcore/extreme matches if the storyline justifies it (a whole card worth of death matches just seems like wrestling equivalent of fetish porn) but I don't like anything that could realistically actually kill someone.

What say you, TRTSM? Any death match freaks out there or are you a squeamish wimp like your man King Kamala?

Just as I typed that, The Undertaker and The Berzerker threatened to stab each other with The Berzerker's sword in this Coliseum Videos match I am watching.

Online Baby Shoes

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 02:41:25 PM »
I'm probably similar to your tastes.  I remember being a little reluctant watch ECW when it first became available to me as a kid because I've never really been into gore and that is what anyone I knew that had seen it tried to highlight from it.

I enjoy some hardcore wrestling but never really go crazy for stupidity spots in death matches.  WWE hardcore matches along the lines of Foley/Orton work for me, stuff like thumbtacks is top of the extreme level for me.  I don't need to see people getting carved with light tubes or anything.
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Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 02:46:09 PM »
I've never been a big death match fan. I enjoyed ECW and FMW in the 90s, but that was the extent. I never watched CZW or anything else. I started watching GCW because it' somewhat local, and I know a lot of the guys that wrestle for them. They have some good wrestling matches (DJ Z vs Jungle Boy tonight was dope as hell).

I thought their death match stuff would be a big turnoff for me, but I haven't minded it so much. That match I mentioned on Facebook, Orin Veidt against G-Raver was insane. G-Raver slapped needles into Veidt's head and then Veidt took a syringe and put it through Raver's cheek. I had to look away while he was doing it. It's almost car crash levels at this point, just can't look away.
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Offline Winter Epicland

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 06:22:49 PM »
I love a good hardcore/weapons match as much as the next person but it can get to the point where stupid risks are taken with no real benefit. Blood matches can be damn entertaining if done right but you gotta draw the line somewhere. This is why I grew up a big ECW fan but hated shit like XPW and IWA: MS

Offline Firmino of the 909

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 06:30:16 PM »
The stuff on TripleMania was as far as I can go.


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Offline Super Leather

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 09:24:59 PM »
I have my fair share of ECW and FMW videos; there was a time when that stuff was the only wrestling I was actually able to watch. My threshold was established when someone showed me a compilation video apparently titled Real Wrestling Injuries. One "match" in particular featured Ian Rotten and Madman Pondo carving each other up with scissors and yep, that's my official limit. I hated what I saw of XPW too.

That said, this is legit one of my favorite matches of the decade...


Offline Saints_Fan_H

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 10:34:56 PM »
I'm probably similar to your tastes.  I remember being a little reluctant watch ECW when it first became available to me as a kid because I've never really been into gore and that is what anyone I knew that had seen it tried to highlight from it.

ECW triggered my discovery of one of my favorite things in life: people taking their kids to see things they're clueless about. The amount of angry parents that wrote into the local paper after a 1998 house show in my hometown was hilarious to teenage me. And the worst was the language, some chair shots, a mop bucket getting knocked over, and a wet floor sign being used as a weapon. There was some guys busted open but it was 1998 - don't act like USA network didn't have the occasional blood spot.

The best was the arena workers and local cop that was like "Dis wasn't the rasslin we used to watch!"

My threshold is somewhere in the IWA king of death match tourney. My line is crossed in there at some point too. If I can't see your face because of the blood, you've probably gone too far.

Offline Harley Quinn

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 11:10:55 PM »
I generally was fine with ECW levels of violence with my limit probably being thumbtacks/fire and maybe barbed wire if you're going the Japan route. I'm also pretty fine with copious blood in part due to horror movies so that isn't much of a turn off but like Kamala, I tend to be a little squeamish so when they start introducing scissors/needles/sickles to carve up foreheads and such, that's pretty much my limit.

Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2019, 12:32:37 AM »
My threshold is considerably greater than most here, it would seem. Even going back to the Smarks board I was into deathmatch stuff, and I will go down swinging in defending Kudo/Toyoda 5/5/96 and a handful of CZW matches as being legitimately great. I have an embarrassingly small collection of CZW DVDs for somebody into that scene, too many XPW tapes for somebody who openly hated it, and cannot stand the typical WWE/TNA/etc. "hardcore" or "extreme rules" match because of how tame and safe they are.

My limit for the gore is a unique one, in that it's only happened once. I forget the exact match, but it was in Japan and featured Jun Kasai with a box cutter. A legitimate one, too, not worked. I've seen Zandig suspended by meathooks, I've seen MASADA slam bamboo skewers into people's heads, flesh torn away leaving gaping holes after glass panels, big fat idiots set on fire...nothing grosses me out like Kasai repeatedly slicing himself open with a box cutter. Syringes are around my limit, but Kasai...he's over it. Sick bastard.

I don't watch much of it anymore because it's all so bland. I think my favorite deathmatch of the last few years was actually a weak crowd brawl between Nate Hatred (RIP) and Shlak, and that was more because it felt like a real fight instead of setting up violent spots. It's one of the reasons I felt Hatred was underrated and Shlak is worth more than others.

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2019, 12:41:35 AM »
I generally was fine with ECW levels of violence with my limit probably being thumbtacks/fire and maybe barbed wire if you're going the Japan route. I'm also pretty fine with copious blood in part due to horror movies so that isn't much of a turn off but like Kamala, I tend to be a little squeamish so when they start introducing scissors/needles/sickles to carve up foreheads and such, that's pretty much my limit.
This is about where I am. Stabbing and slicing is beyond the pale for me.

Offline Joyful & Soyful

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2019, 02:32:35 AM »
I used to be able to handle it a lot more and I watched a lot of the IWA-MS King Of The Death Match tourneys back in the day. Not so much as it has become too excessive. I think around the time women started doing it and they were doing intergender death matches, I completely got out of it. I can still watch some of the 80's Puerto Rico stuff which is pretty gruesome though.

Offline Gary

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2019, 03:42:22 AM »
I remember seeing a clip from CZW that had someone drinking blood from their own arm and thought to myself "Yeah, I'm out" That and things like intergender death matches. If you actively want to see a man throw a woman into thumbtacks or whatever, you likely have some issues you need to work out. That being said, I do like the non death match related stuff in CZW. Also not a fan of stabbing and slicing.

I can still watch old ECW, FMW, IWA Japan, W*ING, WCCW and BJPW. Speaking of which, I always dug Matsunaga, who stuck me as a guy who was actually a decent to good worker who happened to do a lot of death matches.

Did anyone actually like XPW? I just remember it as a terrible ECW wannabe with a lot of bad workers. One of the reasons many of the promotions I mentioned were watchable was the fact that they actually had something beyond gore going for them (ECW giving American audiences their first taste of guys like Eddie Gurrero and Dean Malenko; BJPW having a good jr division and giving us Tajiri)

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Offline Winter Epicland

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2019, 03:54:12 AM »
XPW had quite a large following in the early 2000s. People latched onto it so much because they were still reeling from ECW's death and needed something to fill the void even though it was utter trash with Rob Black being probably the scummiest figure in pro wrestling history which is saying something. Quite a few ECW alum would work there too (Shane Douglas was their world champ, Joey Styles did commentary, etc.).

I remember a message board I was posting on in 2002-2003 worshipped XPW and when I tried to tell them it wasn't my thing, I was put through the ringer. Like how Dama reacts when people criticize ROH/NJPW.

Offline Avid Warehouse Enthusiast

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 04:34:44 AM »
I can't lie: there's a few XPW shows and workers who I'm a fan of. As lousy as he was and still technically is, Supreme was fun because he didn't care about anybody's safety at all but would cower and wince when he took punishment. Homeless Jimmy is one of the most underutilized indie guys of the 00's. Messiah (and his trainer, Carlito Montana) was a goddamn workhorse when he was paired with somebody even remotely decent, and it's a shame his CZW run was meh and that his legacy is the missing digit. Johnny Webb was insanely entertaining. GQ Money can work a mic. Kid Kaos was a solid cruiser for that era.

Gary, the wrestler you're thinking of is Sexxxy Eddy, who actually calls Montreal-based IWS home. That's a great hardcore company that's kinda the bridge between ECW-style chaotic brawls/spotfests and the CZW/BJW influenced modern deathmatch setting. It's also where Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens first took off, and where PCO's career relaunch happened. One hell of an exciting product.

Offline Winter Epicland

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2019, 04:53:07 AM »
I remember Kaos being praised quite a bit back in the day as one of the better indie workers and people compared him to the Danielsons, Low-Kis, Styles', etc. of the time. I never saw anything in him though and it's no shock he never gained traction beyond XPW.

Messiah was one of the better workers in the promotion but he looked and moved so low-rent. I couldn't get into the majority of his stuff.

You want to know where I draw the line in deathmatches? There's a spot in XPW where one dude slams another in a pool full of shit. Like, actual fecal matter. It's disturbing. The Rock's slamming Bulldog into dog crap has nothing on it.

Offline cobainwasmurdered

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2019, 04:56:39 AM »
I like Big Japan and they go really far at times including insane shit like the needle through the cheek spot. The difference with BJPW at least now is that most of the deathmatch workers can wrestle and they work all the spots into the context of an actual match. It also helps theyre in front of a crowd that cares not 20 moms who are staring at their phones.

Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2019, 09:31:16 AM »
I was just thinking that I DID watch the IWA King of the Death Match tournament a bunch in the '00s (usually while drinking with buddies). Even though a lot of it was gnarly, it was kind of a spectacular.

Also most current indy death match guys do seem legitimately kind of gross people except Matt Tremont.

Offline Joyful & Soyful

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2019, 09:43:49 AM »
I was just thinking that I DID watch the IWA King of the Death Match tournament a bunch in the '00s (usually while drinking with buddies). Even though a lot of it was gnarly, it was kind of a spectacular.

Also most current indy death match guys do seem legitimately kind of gross people except Matt Tremont.

There were some shit workers in those IWA tourneys, but stuff like Necro Butcher vs Toby Klein series hold up really well since they incorporate some wrestling in with the weapons and gore.

Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2019, 09:46:43 AM »
I like death match wrestlers that can hold their own in non death match settings. I've watched Tremont have good to great bloodless brawls with Chris Hero, AR Fox, and Matt Riddle. Necro Butcher always held his own with the indy darlings of the mid '00s. That match MASADA had with Roderick Strong on ROH TV a few years back? Eh, not so good...

Offline The Valeyard

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2019, 11:00:26 AM »
FMW is my ceiling. I can't stand the straight up light tubes or any of that. I blame CZW for this, specifically Nick Mondo taking a weedwhacker to the stomach.

Offline jerk of all trades

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 03:34:32 AM »
Yeah the 90's death match stuff in IWA Japan and FMW are my cap as well. I have no problem with Big Japan and American indies doing these matches, and will support their right to do them, but they're just not my cup of tea anymore.

Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2020, 04:18:06 AM »
Invalid Tweet IDGod damn GCW. God damn Japan!

Offline Mr. S£im Citrus

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2020, 04:31:56 AM »
To quote the great Canadian philosopher, Portia Perez: "I like my deathmatches like I like my coffee. I don't like coffee."

Offline AA484

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2020, 04:34:23 AM »
At some point it crosses the threshold from wrestling to mindless entertainment, where I'm almost watching it in the same sense as I would a trainwreck.

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2020, 04:48:34 AM »
Does anyone watch Penn & Teller: Fool Us. When Penn talks about these danger acts, he'll note that it's unethical to actually have the performer in danger. If you can't gimmick these things or limit their damage (i.e., thumbtacks can only penetrate so far), workers shouldn't do it.

Offline Youth N Asia

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2020, 02:34:18 AM »
I liked the 90s Japanese stuff well enough. Tacks, barbed wire, other gimmicky stuff that probably looked worse than it was.

I haven’t watched anything in over a decade. But I had a low tolerance for the light tube matches. When it was just guys hitting each other dozens of times with fluorescent light tubes. If it was one or two big shots it feels like it would mean something. But when it’s non stop it just feels pointless.

Wasn’t a death match, but I got to see Abby and Madman Pondo in a bloodbath brawl live once. That was a blast.

Offline The Valeyard

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2020, 03:40:33 AM »
I can watch old FMW-era stuff with zero problem, but I don't care for straight gorefests. I know that kind of makes no sense, but seeing Onita getting blown up (among other things) or Kudo get tangled in barbed wire or Foley being Foley bothers me SO much less than light tubes. The light tubes in particular have always really bothered me. I know good stuff exists, but it's all really far from my comfort zone of horrific violence and maiming.

Online alkeiper

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2020, 06:57:12 AM »
Because the ring blowing up is a special effect that shouldn't actually hurt badly. The ones who do it well don't immediately smack each other with weapons. They build towards big spots.

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

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Re: What is your threshold for death match/extreme wrestling?
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2020, 10:51:15 AM »
Does anyone watch Penn & Teller: Fool Us. When Penn talks about these danger acts, he'll note that it's unethical to actually have the performer in danger. If you can't gimmick these things or limit their damage (i.e., thumbtacks can only penetrate so far), workers shouldn't do it.

By that logic, you shouldn’t have people wrestle at all. Even a WWE flat back bump dishes out damage, not to mention doing them all the time.

this death match stuff is fine until it crosses the line from Jackass to Friday the 13th.


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