Author Topic: MLB Offseason Thread  (Read 3772 times)

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Offline alkeiper

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #100 on: January 10, 2020, 07:21:29 AM »
Who figures to be a high bidder on Betts? By all rights the Mets should be eyeing this one up, but who knows with that franchise?

Offline Cartman

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #101 on: January 10, 2020, 08:04:29 AM »
Technically Betts avoided arbitration and signed a 1 year offer from the Sox, but yes he's still gone and i'm kinda ok with that.

Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #102 on: January 13, 2020, 05:09:13 AM »

WELLL...Alex Cora has to be fucked. I don't think lifetime ban is out of the question now.

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #103 on: January 13, 2020, 05:10:52 AM »
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/houston-astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-suspended-1-year

Both GM and Coach of the Astros have been suspend a full season, 5 million dollar team fine, with both 1st and 2nd round picks of 2020 and 2021 taken away as well. Due to the investigation of technology used to cheat during the World Series of 2017.

Holy shit. I was not expecting it to be that bad. I mean that's very bad.

And I got beat by Boomer. Dammit.

Offline alkeiper

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #104 on: January 13, 2020, 05:52:27 AM »
Holy shit is my reaction too. Though many seem the punishment is actually light. I don't want to see MLB vacating victories, championships, anything of the sort. This is fine because if other clubs' sign stealing schemes come out, they can get suspended too and we don't have to worry about a butterfly effect on the record book.

Still, the 2017 Astros championship is absolutely tainted. No one can trust what's going on in MLB over the last three seasons, and that's a big problem.

Offline Zetterberg is Go

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2020, 06:18:06 AM »

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2020, 06:34:00 AM »
Okay, I'm sorry, but the Astros being able to fire them to "clean the slate" is bullshit and they shouldn't get to do that. Kind of makes part of the punishment a joke, really.

Offline Broward

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2020, 06:48:20 AM »
Losing AJ and Lunhow sucks. AJ (mismanagement of Game 7 aside) was a great manager for the team.

Whelp, we still have our ring and that's all that matters.

Online Firmino of the 909

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #108 on: January 13, 2020, 06:59:51 AM »
Yeah, a completely tainted one that nobody outside of Houston will ever take seriously.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Amy pats fan

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #109 on: January 13, 2020, 07:19:29 AM »
Okay, I'm sorry, but the Astros being able to fire them to "clean the slate" is bullshit and they shouldn't get to do that. Kind of makes part of the punishment a joke, really.

How is it bullshit?  The owner wasn't in on the cheating.  He waited for the results of the investigation, and once it reached it's conclusion was completely within his rights to fire both Hinch and Luhnow.  They tainted the championship and left a black mark on the franchise and he clearly felt they needed to move on without them.

Are you arguing there isn't just cause?

Offline Amy pats fan

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2020, 07:21:20 AM »
Oh, and Cora should probably be cleaning out his office about now.  Don't know if Boston will fire him, but being a central part of two cheating scandals isn't looking good

Online Firmino of the 909

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #111 on: January 13, 2020, 07:27:14 AM »
Oh, and Cora should probably be cleaning out his office about now.  Don't know if Boston will fire him, but being a central part of two cheating scandals isn't looking good

He should be banned for life.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Cartman

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #112 on: January 13, 2020, 07:57:25 AM »
Yep, Cora is a shitbag and needs to be fired/banned. What a joke.

Great on the MLB to levy these harsh punnishments as this trash has no place in baseball.

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #113 on: January 13, 2020, 08:10:06 AM »
Okay, I'm sorry, but the Astros being able to fire them to "clean the slate" is bullshit and they shouldn't get to do that. Kind of makes part of the punishment a joke, really.

How is it bullshit?  The owner wasn't in on the cheating.  He waited for the results of the investigation, and once it reached it's conclusion was completely within his rights to fire both Hinch and Luhnow.  They tainted the championship and left a black mark on the franchise and he clearly felt they needed to move on without them.

Are you arguing there isn't just cause?
No sorry, I thought he was in the know and so should've been stuck with them on the books. I figured that he must've signed off on it or something.

Though, now knowing the owner didn't know somehow makes this actually even worse. I honestly am surprised the owner had no idea at all. Wow.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #114 on: January 13, 2020, 08:39:29 AM »
Oh, and Cora should probably be cleaning out his office about now.  Don't know if Boston will fire him, but being a central part of two cheating scandals isn't looking good

Mets need to fire Beltran as well, seeing as he was a big part of this. He was still a player at the time, but he can't be let off lightly.
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Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #115 on: January 13, 2020, 09:35:33 AM »
Not only is Cora almost definitely gonna get fired if not banned but I think John Henry, Lucchino, and co. will use this as reason to justify them gutting the franchise. It's gonna be a loonnnnggg summer on Landsdowne.


Offline Thrasher

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #116 on: January 13, 2020, 02:37:38 PM »
I love the Padres but give Kershaw his two rings you cheating fucks.
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Offline Broward

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #117 on: January 13, 2020, 03:15:40 PM »
Yeah, a completely tainted one that nobody outside of Houston will ever take seriously.

Don't. Give. A. Fuck.

Bitch as much as y'all want. Whine. Cry. Shed tears for Kershaw like he's some personification of baseball being played the "right" way.

That trophy isn't leaving Houston. Those rings aren't being confiscated. The banner isn't being yanked down.

The sanctimoniously hypocritical hand-wringing is hilarious.

Online Firmino of the 909

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #118 on: January 13, 2020, 03:21:48 PM »
Man, I don't think I've shed any tears over sports in a really long time.

The title is still tainted and everyone knows it. Nobody cares about that banner hanging there, except you and the people in your town. However you want to validate that to yourself, that's alright. But everyone else in the country knows it's bullshit. This Astros title, with their Chinese eyes shit and outright cheating, this kind of invalidation is exactly what they deserve. The manager, GM, and bench coach will effectively be blackballed from the game. How can anyone call that title legitimate.

It has nothing to do with who they cheated against, and everything to do with right and wrong. The same way that Pete Rose deserves to be banned for life for making a bunch of bets that nobody can independently validate to decide on whether or not he was cheating the game. When people talk about this title, it will effectively be invalidated with an asterisk. The organization will never shake that.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #119 on: January 13, 2020, 11:43:01 PM »
Oof. Yeah. Cora should be shaking greasy hands and signing autographs next to Pete Rose in the Caesar's Palace Mall sports memorabilia store in no time.

I'm slightly incredulous that the Red Sox haven't fired him already.

Offline MFer

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2020, 12:46:07 AM »
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476888/nationals-prospect-fausto-segura-dies-age-23

Not a big name or story, but it's yet another baseball player dying in the D.R.

Offline tekcop

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2020, 04:25:07 AM »
Baseball has a beautiful history of cheating and the Astros were only doing their part to keep that proud tradition alive. Good on the league for taking action, though.

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #122 on: January 14, 2020, 04:44:12 AM »

Offline Thrasher

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Offline Broward

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #124 on: January 14, 2020, 06:41:12 AM »
Y'all know Houston played four of their games (including Game 7) in Los Angeles, right? Y'all also know this, yes?

2017 ALCS:

Game 1 -- Keuchel - 7 IP, 0 R
Game 2 -- Verlander -- 9 IP, 1 R
Game 6 -- Verlander -- 7 IP, 0 R
Game 7 -- Morton/McCullers -- 9 IP, 0 R

This is why the Yankees lost in 2017.

Our run differential was minus two to New York and had just as many runs as LA did (34).

Also, didn't we have better road records while all of this was going on? Doesn't Manfred's report talk about how the whistling, banging and etc wound up being more of a distraction to Astros batters?

Whatever though. Y'all stay mad and I'll wear my World Series cap all the same.

Offline tekcop

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #125 on: January 14, 2020, 07:01:00 AM »
Man, I'm on the Astros' side here, but lol your team cheated, dude.

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Whatever though. Y'all stay mad and I'll wear my World Series cap all the same.
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Offline Brooklyn Zoo

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #126 on: January 14, 2020, 07:08:48 AM »
Y'all know Houston played four of their games (including Game 7) in Los Angeles, right? Y'all also know this, yes?

2017 ALCS:

Game 1 -- Keuchel - 7 IP, 0 R
Game 2 -- Verlander -- 9 IP, 1 R
Game 6 -- Verlander -- 7 IP, 0 R
Game 7 -- Morton/McCullers -- 9 IP, 0 R

This is why the Yankees lost in 2017.

Our run differential was minus two to New York and had just as many runs as LA did (34).

Also, didn't we have better road records while all of this was going on? Doesn't Manfred's report talk about how the whistling, banging and etc wound up being more of a distraction to Astros batters?

Whatever though. Y'all stay mad and I'll wear my World Series cap all the same.

If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t keep responding

Maybe if the Astros didn’t cheat all year, they wouldn’t have had home field advantage in that series. Why don’t you show how the Astros pitched in Yankee Stadium.

Online Firmino of the 909

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #127 on: January 14, 2020, 07:34:50 AM »
Y'all know Houston played four of their games (including Game 7) in Los Angeles, right? Y'all also know this, yes?

2017 ALCS:

Game 1 -- Keuchel - 7 IP, 0 R
Game 2 -- Verlander -- 9 IP, 1 R
Game 6 -- Verlander -- 7 IP, 0 R
Game 7 -- Morton/McCullers -- 9 IP, 0 R

This is why the Yankees lost in 2017.

Our run differential was minus two to New York and had just as many runs as LA did (34).

Also, didn't we have better road records while all of this was going on? Doesn't Manfred's report talk about how the whistling, banging and etc wound up being more of a distraction to Astros batters?

Whatever though. Y'all stay mad and I'll wear my World Series cap all the same.

How can you even post this stupid shit while ignoring that the Astros scored 13 runs at home in Game 5, which undoubtedly would not have happened without this cheating system. You also have to consider the effects this would have on another team's pitching staff in the whole context of the series. This kind of bogus defense doesn't do the Astros any favors.

Over here in the real world, we know that people being suspended for running a cheating program means that the title those people won is tainted.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Amy pats fan

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2020, 07:38:00 AM »
Baseball has a beautiful history of cheating and the Astros were only doing their part to keep that proud tradition alive. Good on the league for taking action, though.

This is kind of how I look at it honestly.  The key is not getting caught.

The 17 and 18 WS titles will both have an asterisk, if not literally than figuratively.  The Yankees lost to both eventual champions but so be it, what's done is done.  I'd be a hypocrite and a liar if I acted all aggrieved about it because I quite frankly didn't give a shit about any of the allegations against New England

Online Firmino of the 909

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #129 on: January 14, 2020, 07:59:13 AM »
Also, while I'm at it, I kinda hope the Dodgers get busted so that Dave Roberts can be banned for life. Please. I'm begging


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Cool, Bad, & Handsome

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #130 on: January 14, 2020, 08:51:23 AM »
It would be funnier if he were a squeaky clean dumbass who only manages to lose against teams that blatantly cheat against him. Need that redemption angle for Yu Garbage and Dave.

Offline Amy pats fan

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #131 on: January 14, 2020, 10:08:22 AM »
Not only is Cora almost definitely gonna get fired if not banned but I think John Henry, Lucchino, and co. will use this as reason to justify them gutting the franchise. It's gonna be a loonnnnggg summer on Landsdowne.



Funny enough, Valentine was on WFAN today talking about all this.  I was in the car and didn't hear all of it but he was basically saying everyone steals signs, he prided himself on his ability to do it as a player, and he did it as a manager in a "competitive edge" sort of way because everyone else was doing it, but he never felt he crossed the line into egregious cheating

What I heard was pretty interesting, I'll throw up a link when it gets posted

Online Firmino of the 909

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #132 on: January 14, 2020, 10:29:43 AM »
Cora has been fired.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Harley Quinn

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2020, 11:41:18 AM »
Not only is Cora almost definitely gonna get fired if not banned but I think John Henry, Lucchino, and co. will use this as reason to justify them gutting the franchise. It's gonna be a loonnnnggg summer on Landsdowne.



Funny enough, Valentine was on WFAN today talking about all this.  I was in the car and didn't hear all of it but he was basically saying everyone steals signs, he prided himself on his ability to do it as a player, and he did it as a manager in a "competitive edge" sort of way because everyone else was doing it, but he never felt he crossed the line into egregious cheating

What I heard was pretty interesting, I'll throw up a link when it gets posted

I've found that tends to be the case. After the Patriots got busted for Spygate then Deflategate, coaches and players (including Jimmy Johnson and Aaron Rodgers off the top of my head) both came out basically saying they did the same thing... just they didn't get caught/busted for cheating but I found it kind of interesting how deep the belief of doing whatever you could to get a competitive advantage went with them saying they also didn't really cross any specific lines.

I'm sure guys like Bobby Valentine and other players/coaches (maybe even still today) were or are sign stealing mofos. But the use of the video system + the pounding communication is probably a "line" too far. Kind of that unspoken agreement that it's fine to steal signs if you're standing on 1st or 2nd Base but above & beyond that is too much.

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2020, 11:45:48 AM »
Are Astros fans so deluded that they forgot Yuli Gurriel used cheating to hit a homer off Yu Darvish and made racist gestures mocking him afterward? Cause nobody should really forget about that. More people need to be suspended and/or banned from baseball.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Dandy

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #135 on: January 14, 2020, 12:07:27 PM »
I nominate Clint Hurdle.
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Offline Krankor

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #136 on: January 14, 2020, 01:22:41 PM »
I second Clint Hurdle. He is scum.

Offline Thrasher

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #137 on: January 14, 2020, 02:27:52 PM »
Also, while I'm at it, I kinda hope the Dodgers get busted so that Dave Roberts can be banned for life. Please. I'm begging

Do you think when Dave Roberts finally wakes up he'll be mildly upset about what took place.
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Offline Amy pats fan

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #138 on: January 14, 2020, 09:03:39 PM »

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #139 on: January 14, 2020, 09:36:16 PM »
Lol even in the garbage ufc when people are caught cheating they usually change the official outcomes. Baseball has less integrity wow


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline Dandy

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #140 on: January 14, 2020, 10:09:02 PM »
You aren’t suggesting a singular one on one fight is easier to speculate on what the outcome could have been without the cheating than a 162 game season and multiple rounds of multiple game playoffs in a team sport are you?
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Offline alkeiper

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #141 on: January 15, 2020, 12:43:25 AM »
Quote
I'm sure guys like Bobby Valentine and other players/coaches (maybe even still today) were or are sign stealing mofos. But the use of the video system + the pounding communication is probably a "line" too far. Kind of that unspoken agreement that it's fine to steal signs if you're standing on 1st or 2nd Base but above & beyond that is too much.

You can steal signs from the catcher as a baserunner. You can decode the base coaches signs. Smart players SHOULD try to steal signs from those positions. Willie Mays was supposedly an expert. Catchers get upset if the batter tries to peek. Teams squawk if teams steal signs/signal from the bullpen, but if you can do it with the naked eye it's not against the rules. Electronic communication or visual help like binoculars is easily over the line.

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #142 on: January 15, 2020, 02:11:11 AM »
You aren’t suggesting a singular one on one fight is easier to speculate on what the outcome could have been without the cheating than a 162 game season and multiple rounds of multiple game playoffs in a team sport are you?

Could you imagine if they let Andre the Giant keep the title after the Double Hebner? What a disgrace.

Throwing out all those details to try and make this seem nuanced is hilarious to me. They cheated, blatantly, to the point that some were banned for whole seasons.

Also, there are plenty of times where fighters cheat and it doesn’t necessarily mean the outcome would be different. A guy on steroids might win without them too, but if we take that chance then what would be the incentive to not take them? If you asked those guys that received the ban if they would give up their rings in exchange for it to be lifted, I guarantee you they’d say no. So why would anyone not cheat again? Baseball has no integrity.

And they won the series in seven games, about as close as it gets to not getting it. With such a fine margin between winning and losing, it’s hard to not think that the cheating made the difference.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #143 on: January 15, 2020, 04:07:08 AM »
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28477741/why-anger-boiling-scenes-houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments

Quote
Multiple ownership-level sources told ESPN that dissatisfaction with the penalties had emerged following a conference call with Manfred, in which he explained how the Astros would be disciplined, then told teams to keep their thoughts to themselves.

"The impression," one person familiar with the call told ESPN, "was that the penalty for complaining would be more than Houston got."

Run through a passive-aggressive translator, the Dodgers' words mirrored what a team president had said earlier in the day.

"Crane won," he said. "The entire thing was programmed to protect the future of the franchise. He got his championship. He keeps his team. His fine is nothing. The sport lost, but Crane won."

people acting like this isn't a big deal just don't want to accept that their precious sport is tarnished.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!

Offline strummer

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #144 on: January 15, 2020, 04:29:05 AM »
Mike Francesa on twitter is hinting that the Mets won't be firing Beltran over this. So expect him to be fired any minute now

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #145 on: January 15, 2020, 06:23:07 AM »
And they won the series in seven games, about as close as it gets to not getting it. With such a fine margin between winning and losing, it’s hard to not think that the cheating made the difference.



Lol this speaks for itself.


koab [8:27 PM]
damn i thought you guys were good little cucks who would shit themselfs so a POC could peacefully protest

Offline Sty Guy Kamala

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #146 on: January 15, 2020, 06:29:50 AM »
Not a good look. Not a good look at allllll.


Offline Brooklyn Zoo

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #147 on: January 15, 2020, 06:34:41 AM »
Not a good look. Not a good look at allllll.



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Offline alkeiper

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #148 on: January 16, 2020, 04:18:16 AM »
And now Carlos Beltran has stepped down as manager of the Mets.

Offline Dandy

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Re: MLB Offseason Thread
« Reply #149 on: January 16, 2020, 05:04:17 AM »
And they won the series in seven games, about as close as it gets to not getting it. With such a fine margin between winning and losing, it’s hard to not think that the cheating made the difference.

That is not my entire point. They did not just up and cheat during the seven game World Series. There is no telling how everyone’s records would have shaken out and which teams would have placed where and which teams would have squared off for the playoffs. You can’t just vacate the championship and give it to the runner up when there were 170+ games affecting so many different teams.

Do you give it to the ALCS runner up or the WS runner up? Both were cheated against and could have theoretically won. But the entire playoff scenarios could have been different. You can’t even make it cut and dry as it not affecting the NLCS winner due to inter league play.

Vacating wins and trophies doesn’t change anything. Suspend or ban the guilty parties and move on.
Oh Dandy...you came and you gave without taking!