Author Topic: The biggest challenges facing MMA today  (Read 1642 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lord of The Curry

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10,400
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« on: September 09, 2009, 02:13:53 AM »
This is a thread I've been contemplating making for a while now and it's something that as a fan of the sport I wonder quite often. We're seeing (and have been seeing) the rise of MMA into the public eye but it's obviously got a long way to go as far as acceptance goes and part of me wonders what the biggest hurdle it needs to overcome is. A few things that pop into my head right off the bat are...

Rules and The Scoring System- We've seen some pretty heinous decisions so far in the UFC alone this year in Guillard/Tibeau and Garcia/Blackburn, along with questionable scoring in fights like Henderson/Franklin where one judge scored the contest 30-27 for Rich. Some will argue that there's a direct correlation between the wrestling/top-heavy scoring and a lot of fighters (*cough Tyson Griffin*) becoming shitty kickboxers because they'd rather not fuck around on the mat and risk losing the fight in the eyes of an uneducated judge.

Refereeing In what was a horribly biased piece of journalism a reporter for a paper in Portland made a statement that went something along the lines of "Somebody is going to die in the octagon one day" and while I do not agree with that statement overall there's a small piece of truth to be found in it. In fights like Pete Sell vs Brown we have seen a referee second-guess himself and allow a fighter to take unneeded punishment because of it and that wasn't even the worst one this year because whomever refereed Pedro Rizzo vs Gilbert Yvel should be dragged into the streets and shot as that was easily one of the worst "Jesus Christ he's dead!" moments in recent MMA history.

I've got a few more to talk about but I figured it'd be good to get others opinions and see where we go from here.

Offline Lei Tong

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2,330
  • ...un pocho pendejo, at that!
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2009, 04:10:40 AM »
Which rules exactly?

Offline Mik

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Lightswitch Rave!
    • Neville Longbottom
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 04:12:02 AM »
I think the refusal to change the rules with certain people, including Dana White, saying that they are "old school" and "purists". The rules have only been in place 10 years. You'd swear they were thinking about modifying century old traditions.

There needs to be a shift away from the 10 point scoring system, but I'm afraid it's probably never going to happen.
Show loose women what I'm workin' with.


Offline MikeofEvil

  • Beware of my mongooses!
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 588
    • Mike Brooks, Sci-Fi Author
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 05:20:48 AM »
This is a thread I've been contemplating making for a while now and it's something that as a fan of the sport I wonder quite often. We're seeing (and have been seeing) the rise of MMA into the public eye but it's obviously got a long way to go as far as acceptance goes and part of me wonders what the biggest hurdle it needs to overcome is. A few things that pop into my head right off the bat are...

Rules and The Scoring System- We've seen some pretty heinous decisions so far in the UFC alone this year in Guillard/Tibeau and Garcia/Blackburn, along with questionable scoring in fights like Henderson/Franklin where one judge scored the contest 30-27 for Rich. Some will argue that there's a direct correlation between the wrestling/top-heavy scoring and a lot of fighters (*cough Tyson Griffin*) becoming shitty kickboxers because they'd rather not fuck around on the mat and risk losing the fight in the eyes of an uneducated judge.

I think the scoring system needs to be explained better so people like me can actually understand it. I've been watching every show I can catch for the last couple of years and I'm starting to get to know the sport, although half the conversation on this board still goes over my head, but the scoring still eludes me. I get the idea of a scoring strike, say - one that hits the opponent and isn't blocked, perhaps. A bigger score would go to a knockdown, I imagine. But 'grappling' - what about the grappling is measured? Who is attempting more? Who is on top more? If you're talking someone like Big Nog, just because the opponent's on top doesn't mean they're going to be in control that much, from what I've seen and heard. I'm interested to hear how 'aggression' is defined too - who moves forward more? I'm tempted to say that Forrest was the more aggressive in his fight against Silva - he just kept missing his swings and running into punches. And 'Octagon Control' is a tricky one. Before every show they run through this, but never explain how the less obvious things are scored.

Quote
Refereeing In what was a horribly biased piece of journalism a reporter for a paper in Portland made a statement that went something along the lines of "Somebody is going to die in the octagon one day" and while I do not agree with that statement overall there's a small piece of truth to be found in it. In fights like Pete Sell vs Brown we have seen a referee second-guess himself and allow a fighter to take unneeded punishment because of it and that wasn't even the worst one this year because whomever refereed Pedro Rizzo vs Gilbert Yvel should be dragged into the streets and shot as that was easily one of the worst "Jesus Christ he's dead!" moments in recent MMA history.

I've got a few more to talk about but I figured it'd be good to get others opinions and see where we go from here.

In Thiago Silva vs Jardine, Jardine tapped and Lavigne missed it, leading to the fight continuing another few seconds until Jardine went unconscious, which wasn't necessary. But in terms of this - boxing has had in-ring casualties, am I correct? Brain haemmorhages (that's almost certainly spelt wrong) that led to death at ringside. No-one has yet died in the octagon, but MMA has to endure the stigma of barbarism. I honestly don't understand why boxing is seen as OK (or at least, *more* OK) and MMA isn't. If anything, I'd say MMA is more honest; if you step in there, there's the possibility of you getting seriously fucked up, a submission breaking your limb, etc etc. There's no-one pretending it's some ancient and noble art that just happens to involve two guys hitting each other in the head as hard as they can.

I can't help wondering if removing Dana from media duties and replacing him with someone who has adjectives that aren't "fuck" might help. Find the fighters whose personalities are least about "I enjoy hurting people" and most about "I'm testing the limits of myself as an athlete, and my chosen combat style(s)" and get them doing publicity. Throw caution to the wind and donate some of the profits from a given show to a children's charity!


I'm an angel. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

Offline HSJ

  • misogynist at heart
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,100
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 05:45:00 AM »
Judging grappling is a tricky thing because most of the time, the guy on top is the one controlling the fight. While the guy on the bottom may be working harder, he's only trying to escape a bad position. In Jiu Jitsu tournaments, if someone mounts you and you power roll and end up in the other persons guard, you don't get points for a sweep because the general feeling is "you just got out of a bad position and would have lost if you stayed there." It's basically the same general feeling in MMA.

The only time I've ever seen anyone win a fight while being on their back for most of it was Diego in the Guida fight. But that may also be due to the "aggression" factor.


DTF

Offline starvenger

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2,691
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 07:36:12 AM »
WRT refereeing I think each state would need to come up with a system on how to rate a ref's performance.  If you're thinking "clusterfuck" at this point I'd agree with you.

I think UFC has some sort of in-house ratings system to determine which refs they ask to come with them to places that don't license refs (i.e. the UK).  Basic idea is that the refs need to improve just as MMA fighters need to, and there needs to be a way they can determine how to do so.

Judging is almost always going to be flawed in any sport where people award you points based on a set of criteria, and I'm not sure you can fix it.
Starvenger


Offline MikeofEvil

  • Beware of my mongooses!
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 588
    • Mike Brooks, Sci-Fi Author
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 09:36:50 AM »
Judging grappling is a tricky thing because most of the time, the guy on top is the one controlling the fight. While the guy on the bottom may be working harder, he's only trying to escape a bad position. In Jiu Jitsu tournaments, if someone mounts you and you power roll and end up in the other persons guard, you don't get points for a sweep because the general feeling is "you just got out of a bad position and would have lost if you stayed there." It's basically the same general feeling in MMA.

Not even if you get taken down, then roll over and spend the majority of the rest of the fight/round on top, doing a lot more damage? It seems stupid to deny points for being able to transition and maintain a position better than the person who started the ground game off in the first place.


I'm an angel. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

Offline Lei Tong

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2,330
  • ...un pocho pendejo, at that!
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 10:39:59 AM »
Right, but you added the term "a lot of damage." Damage and coming close to finishing a fight (eg- close sub attempts) will usually take precedence over just about anything, whether you do it standing, from your back, or wherever. However, in the case of a guy being on top and being completely ineffectual with the position, it's hard to give him much credit. On the other hand, if the guy on top can manage to sneak in at least a few shots here and there and/or advance position a good bit (NOT simply going from full guard to half and back repeatedly), and his opponent does dick all, then he should be credited for such. The important thing to remember with scoring via the 10-point system is not how much you do in a round, but how much more you do than your opponent.

Offline HSJ

  • misogynist at heart
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6,100
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 01:38:16 PM »
Judging grappling is a tricky thing because most of the time, the guy on top is the one controlling the fight. While the guy on the bottom may be working harder, he's only trying to escape a bad position. In Jiu Jitsu tournaments, if someone mounts you and you power roll and end up in the other persons guard, you don't get points for a sweep because the general feeling is "you just got out of a bad position and would have lost if you stayed there." It's basically the same general feeling in MMA.

Not even if you get taken down, then roll over and spend the majority of the rest of the fight/round on top, doing a lot more damage? It seems stupid to deny points for being able to transition and maintain a position better than the person who started the ground game off in the first place.

Then the guy is going to get credit for being on top, not for the roll.

Look at it this way. In Diego/Guida, Guida was on top of Diego the whole time, but there is no way to deny that Diego was outworking him and being more aggressive. Diego wins.

In Diego/Jon Fitch, Diego was on his back the whole time and being his usual aggressive self, but Fitch was on top the whole time and keeping up with him. Fitch won a close decision because he was on top more and was controlling Diego.

Now look at Gray Maynard. Seriously, fuck that guy.


DTF

Offline The Art of Rasslin'

  • PosterFest 2014 Winner
  • Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23,743
  • wipeoff
The biggest challenges facing MMA today
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 02:41:40 PM »
Between the Brown/Sell fight, letting Ed Herman continue with a fucked up knee, and not seeing Leben tap, the Pride of Quebec Yves Lavigne needs to go to Big John's Ref school.


I can't believe a guy can be that big, and jump around like he does what a great athlete!