Author Topic: What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?  (Read 2153 times)

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Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« on: December 03, 2009, 07:45:45 AM »
The M.O. of the Mid 80's WWF was to take territorial stars and eat them up and job them out then release them. Even main event level talent suffered from this:

Bob Orton jr...went from main eventer to mid carder to mid card tag wrestler to unemployed.  Had brief unremarkable runs in AWA and NWA before toying around the indies in the early 90's.

Ken Patera...from main event heel to upper mid card baby face to JTTS....went to AWA as it died and won tag gold but AWA was a glorified indy at best by 89.

David Schultz...main eventer in 84...black balled....out of wrestling totally by 88

Paul Orndorff...top heel...top face...top heel...injured...mid card heel...mid card babyface...finally retired for a few years for injury and never came close to regaining "star" status

JYD...main event face...mid card face...JTTS...had several runs in WCW but weight and drugs had killed his career effectively...

Billy Jack Haynes, Hercules, Ron Bass,One Man Gang, Jim Brunzell, BJ Mulligan, Harley Race, Adrian Adonis, and countless others were territorial headliners who got eaten up by the WWF system

The only possible survivors whom one may be able to make an argument for are Arn Anderson and Dan Spivey who survived the mid card grind and went on to be pushed entities in WCW and Japan....and my personal picks...Butch Reed ...who at least in my young mark mind was a terrifying star as one half of DOOM in 1990...although that momentum was widely squandered by 1991 and hacksaw Duggan who remained a popular enity all the way into the late 90's in WCW

I may be missing an obvious choice though...


What's your opinion?

Offline Big Green

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 07:49:19 AM »
The WWF's MO was to take regional stars, job them out and release them?

Do the names Greg Valentine, Roddy Piper, Junkyard Dog and Ted DiBiase ring a bell?

Offline Psycho Penguin

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 08:05:59 AM »
I was gonna say Ted Dibiase, but he did main event WM4 so would he be a midcarder?

Offline alkeiper

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 08:13:58 AM »
Paul Orndorff main evented in front of one of the biggest crowds in wrestling history.  Injuries curtailed his career.  Ken Patera left WWF before his career slid downhill and then he ended up in prison.  He was past his prime by expansion anyway.

I think the guys who were hurt most were guys like Butch Reed, Jimmy Jack Funk (Jesse Barr), Buddy Rose, Scott McGhee.  But that's a natural result of consolidation.  Cable television was absolutely going to eat into the live wrestling market, and that was going to eliminate good spots for wrestlers.

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2009, 08:15:17 AM »
JYD was covered in the 1st post - piper and dibiase (and savage) were main eventers primarily and thus exempt from the spirt of the thread

as far as Greg Valentine :



to a WCW JTTS

Offline Dobbs3K

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 08:15:22 AM »
Yeah, I'm not sure you can make such a blanket statement, Brody.

As another example, Randy Savage was a territorial star and I think did OK in his WWF run.
"Tell Mr. Selig that next time that kid pitches, there's a good chance he gets one in the ribs." - Ryan Braun

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2009, 08:17:37 AM »
MID CARDER is in the thread title.  Main eventers are a slightly different argument...is anyone reading the 1st post?

Offline alkeiper

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2009, 08:25:04 AM »
MID CARDER is in the thread title.  Main eventers are a slightly different argument...is anyone reading the 1st post?
I don't know exactly the point you're making.  Four of the five guys you cited fell off the planet due to their own mistakes or injuries.  (Actually all five if you count Orton's nagging arm injury.)  Brunzell was on a mid-card team in AWA and went to a mid-card team in WWF.  Harley Race was given main event runs before injuries sidelined him.  Adrian Adonis's weight problem ballooned out of control.  Mulligan was at the end of his career.

Offline Psycho Penguin

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2009, 08:26:57 AM »
When you start by saying "The M.O. of the Mid 80's WWF was to take territorial stars and eat them up and job them out then release them. Even main event level talent suffered from this:" it kind of gets the top off on the wrong foot, that's all. It was not the WWF's M.O>, iot happened frequently but not as often as a statement like that would indicate.

What about Ricky Steamboat?

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2009, 08:27:37 AM »
MID CARDER is in the thread title.  Main eventers are a slightly different argument...is anyone reading the 1st post?
I don't know exactly the point you're making.  Four of the five guys you cited fell off the planet due to their own mistakes or injuries.  (Actually all five if you count Orton's nagging arm injury.)  Brunzell was on a mid-card team in AWA and went to a mid-card team in WWF.  Harley Race was given main event runs before injuries sidelined him.  Adrian Adonis's weight problem ballooned out of control.  Mulligan was at the end of his career.


Simply the person who achieved the most success after being through the WWF grinder...age, drugs, injuries be damned

Offline alkeiper

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2009, 08:29:36 AM »
MID CARDER is in the thread title.  Main eventers are a slightly different argument...is anyone reading the 1st post?
I don't know exactly the point you're making.  Four of the five guys you cited fell off the planet due to their own mistakes or injuries.  (Actually all five if you count Orton's nagging arm injury.)  Brunzell was on a mid-card team in AWA and went to a mid-card team in WWF.  Harley Race was given main event runs before injuries sidelined him.  Adrian Adonis's weight problem ballooned out of control.  Mulligan was at the end of his career.


Simply the person who achieved the most success after being through the WWF grinder...age, drugs, injuries be damned
It's gotta be Bret Hart.

Offline Psycho Penguin

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2009, 08:31:13 AM »
I'm not sure who territorial stars were but some successful midcarders in WWF that had success after were Bert and Owen Hart, Ricky Steamboat, Brutus Beefcake, Big Boss Man, and Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2009, 08:32:40 AM »
There's some good arguments there actually.  Not many guys actively survived to find any success in WCW, ECW, Japan or the NWA who were not established names.  


Offline fisticuffs

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2009, 08:45:26 AM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Offline Harley Quinn

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2009, 09:05:44 AM »
MID CARDER is in the thread title.  Main eventers are a slightly different argument...is anyone reading the 1st post?
I don't know exactly the point you're making.  Four of the five guys you cited fell off the planet due to their own mistakes or injuries.  (Actually all five if you count Orton's nagging arm injury.)  Brunzell was on a mid-card team in AWA and went to a mid-card team in WWF.  Harley Race was given main event runs before injuries sidelined him.  Adrian Adonis's weight problem ballooned out of control.  Mulligan was at the end of his career.


Simply the person who achieved the most success after being through the WWF grinder...age, drugs, injuries be damned
It's gotta be Bret Hart.

Pfft... try Shawn Michaels.  Guy goes from a tag team act that never officially held the Tag Team Titles to an IC Title champion challenging for the WWF Title (Survivor Series 1992) to toiling around the IC Title/Tag Team Scene (Feud with Razor/tag with Diesel era) to finally getting the WWF Title in 1996 after spending most of 1995 as the company's 1st or 2nd Face before ending his career in 1998 with a back injury.  Then he comes back! from said injury in 2002/2003 and continues to put on show stealing matches and be an over star at the present.

Offline mellow

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2009, 09:09:40 AM »
That begs this question: When exactly does the expansion era for the WWF begin and end?

The argument can easily be made that it began with Vince Sr. selling the company to his son, but I figured that by the time Shawn, Bossman, etc. were on board the WWF was past that phase. When is the cutoff? WrestleMania III?

Offline Big Green

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2009, 09:34:57 AM »
The Expansion Era ends at WrestleMania III. By that point, the WWF had already finished expanding and we began seeing the stars of the era leave (like Piper, JYD and Orndorff).

Online Kahran Ramsus

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2009, 11:23:08 AM »
The Expansion Era ends at WrestleMania III. By that point, the WWF had already finished expanding and we began seeing the stars of the era leave (like Piper, JYD and Orndorff).

I'd even consider pushing it back to when Orndorff turned on Hogan.  That program did huge numbers. 

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2009, 03:28:27 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

Offline fisticuffs

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2009, 04:14:59 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

He wasn't on the level of Dusty or the Horsemen, but he was a solid upper mid-card guy that helped put asses in the seats.

Offline timmy8271

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2009, 04:57:01 PM »
How about King Kong Bundy? He was a star in Memphis and World Class. Then he went to WWF and headlined a Wrestlemania and retired to do movies and tv shows. Then he came back and had a main match at another Mania.

Offline CuckBright7831

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Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2009, 12:27:51 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

He wasn't on the level of Dusty or the Horsemen, but he was a solid upper mid-card guy that helped put asses in the seats.

Ribbing me!!!

Offline wnyxmcneal

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2009, 12:35:42 PM »
I still don't understand this thread.

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2009, 02:23:21 PM »
I still don't understand this thread.

If you weren't a consistently pushed enity in the WWF in the mid 80's, your career pretty much went to shit after wards.  The thread is asking for suggestions for whom survived career purgatory the best and went on to stardom.


(This thread wouldn't work in many other scenerios, as you can look at WCW in 1990-98 and see many future stars dicking around the undercard.)

Offline Ed

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2009, 02:30:35 PM »

Akward picture.

I forgot how stupid Greg "The Hammer" Valentine looked when he was in Rhythm And Blues.

Offline fisticuffs

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2009, 03:14:08 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

He wasn't on the level of Dusty or the Horsemen, but he was a solid upper mid-card guy that helped put asses in the seats.

Ribbing me!!!

I saw him main event cards that included the Horsemen, Dusty, the R&R Express, etc.

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2009, 03:31:20 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

He wasn't on the level of Dusty or the Horsemen, but he was a solid upper mid-card guy that helped put asses in the seats.

Ribbing me!!!

I saw him main event cards that included the Horsemen, Dusty, the R&R Express, etc.

I demand results...to Clawmaster's files!

Seriously dude...Shaska Whatley

He did contend for the WCW World Title in 1995...along with 59 other men at World War 3, but he didn't sniff main events in the NWA (JCP)

Offline fisticuffs

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2009, 04:50:20 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

He wasn't on the level of Dusty or the Horsemen, but he was a solid upper mid-card guy that helped put asses in the seats.

Ribbing me!!!

I saw him main event cards that included the Horsemen, Dusty, the R&R Express, etc.

I demand results...to Clawmaster's files!

Seriously dude...Shaska Whatley

He did contend for the WCW World Title in 1995...along with 59 other men at World War 3, but he didn't sniff main events in the NWA (JCP)

His feud with Jimmy Valiant, which ended in a hair-vs-hair match (and resulted in Valiant being shaved bald), was a main event feud. I was in the Greensboro Coliseum every Saturday night in the 80s and the guy got tons of heat. Back then a lot of the midcard feuds were as much of a draw as the heavyweight championship. I remember seeing him, the R&R Express, Midnight Express, the Youngbloods and others that you wouldn't expect close the show. It was a different time.

Offline Brodypedia

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2009, 04:53:38 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

He wasn't on the level of Dusty or the Horsemen, but he was a solid upper mid-card guy that helped put asses in the seats.

Ribbing me!!!

I saw him main event cards that included the Horsemen, Dusty, the R&R Express, etc.

I demand results...to Clawmaster's files!

Seriously dude...Shaska Whatley

He did contend for the WCW World Title in 1995...along with 59 other men at World War 3, but he didn't sniff main events in the NWA (JCP)

His feud with Jimmy Valiant, which ended in a hair-vs-hair match (and resulted in Valiant being shaved bald), was a main event feud. I was in the Greensboro Coliseum every Saturday night in the 80s and the guy got tons of heat. Back then a lot of the midcard feuds were as much of a draw as the heavyweight championship. I remember seeing him, the R&R Express, Midnight Express, the Youngbloods and others that you wouldn't expect close the show. It was a different time.

Love having an old school mark around, so please don't fret with my arguments, but.....ending the show and main eventing is quite a different case...WWF often had the "Main events" go on mid card to help run angles to boost return ticket sales... the WWF had ALOT of mid carders end shows. 

Offline fisticuffs

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2009, 05:25:10 PM »
"Pistol" Pez Whatley was a huge draw for Jim Crockett but didn't even get ring introductions as a jobber in WWF.

Huge draw you say...

He wasn't on the level of Dusty or the Horsemen, but he was a solid upper mid-card guy that helped put asses in the seats.

Ribbing me!!!

I saw him main event cards that included the Horsemen, Dusty, the R&R Express, etc.

I demand results...to Clawmaster's files!

Seriously dude...Shaska Whatley

He did contend for the WCW World Title in 1995...along with 59 other men at World War 3, but he didn't sniff main events in the NWA (JCP)

His feud with Jimmy Valiant, which ended in a hair-vs-hair match (and resulted in Valiant being shaved bald), was a main event feud. I was in the Greensboro Coliseum every Saturday night in the 80s and the guy got tons of heat. Back then a lot of the midcard feuds were as much of a draw as the heavyweight championship. I remember seeing him, the R&R Express, Midnight Express, the Youngbloods and others that you wouldn't expect close the show. It was a different time.

Love having an old school mark around, so please don't fret with my arguments, but.....ending the show and main eventing is quite a different case...WWF often had the "Main events" go on mid card to help run angles to boost return ticket sales... the WWF had ALOT of mid carders end shows. 

I know those guys closing the show probably had a lot to do with Ric Flair wanting to get an early start on sniffing cocaine off a stripper's ass, and me being around 7 years old at they time probably is warping my perspective, but I thought the guy was pretty good. And he did get good heat.

Offline timmy8271

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What expansion Era WWF midcarder rebounded the best?
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2009, 01:55:26 PM »
Pez had a pretty good run in Continental as Willie B Hurt vs Eddie Gilbert and others in 1988.