Author Topic: ROH Final Battle 2009  (Read 4823 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2009, 01:48:15 PM »
"HE'S TAKING IT!" hahaha

That Aries promo was awesome. I do hope Black wins this though.

Offline Venkman

  • Dr Venkman PhD
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29,106
  • You don't know me and you don't have to know me
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2009, 01:48:45 PM »
Jarrett, Hall, and Nash reunited on a ROH netcast?

Offline The ghost of bps21

  • Wade the Duck says: Your brush with Greatness is OVER!
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26,983
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2009, 01:51:58 PM »
I was going to make that joke but then became sad at the prospects of them actually reuniting in TNA.

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2009, 02:20:42 PM »
Aries must be hurt. Wow. That was a nasty fall, and he's not moving that arm at all.

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2009, 02:22:24 PM »
Haha I guess not!

Offline samoarowe

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 213
  • samoarowe
    • Da Wrestling Site
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2009, 02:22:33 PM »
LOL ARIES WAS FAKING IT!

Offline RedJed

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,767
  • Rasslin' Rambler
    • RedJed's Rasslin' Rants - Only on YouTube! The latest in the wild and wacky world of pro wrestling!!
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2009, 02:23:29 PM »
That was a hell of a worked sell of the arm by Aries.......nice!

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2009, 02:24:57 PM »
Perhaps a one hour draw? This one has been pretty long.

Offline RedJed

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,767
  • Rasslin' Rambler
    • RedJed's Rasslin' Rants - Only on YouTube! The latest in the wild and wacky world of pro wrestling!!
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2009, 02:26:13 PM »
Perhaps a one hour draw? This one has been pretty long.

I can see it going about 45-50 minutes but they wont do a draw (hopefully).

Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2009, 02:26:45 PM »
I love Aries, but all that stooging is killing the match. 

Offline RedJed

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,767
  • Rasslin' Rambler
    • RedJed's Rasslin' Rants - Only on YouTube! The latest in the wild and wacky world of pro wrestling!!
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2009, 02:27:09 PM »
Big lulz at the crowd totally shitting on the match.

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2009, 02:27:59 PM »
Yeah. Aries is trying a little too hard to have the people turn against him, but it's just ruining this match.

Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2009, 02:29:51 PM »
Wow!  Don't come back!

Offline RedJed

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,767
  • Rasslin' Rambler
    • RedJed's Rasslin' Rants - Only on YouTube! The latest in the wild and wacky world of pro wrestling!!
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2009, 02:35:17 PM »
The second half of this match has been really weak, and they obviously have lost the crowd basically.

That is, until THAT spot at ringside with Black powerbombing Aries into the corner/chair. They needed that to get everyone back into the match.

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2009, 02:37:00 PM »
The Powerbomb and Superkick combo was nasty but I don't think it was enough to win the crowd back.

Oh shit brain buster on the ramp.

Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2009, 02:43:47 PM »
So Sweeney's mic finally starts working when the rest of the sound fails? lol.

Offline RedJed

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,767
  • Rasslin' Rambler
    • RedJed's Rasslin' Rants - Only on YouTube! The latest in the wild and wacky world of pro wrestling!!
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2009, 02:45:25 PM »
Damn they better not go to a draw....unless they just then do an overtime afterward.

What the fucks up with the audio again? No crowd noise at all. But now we have Dempsey and nobody else?!!!


Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2009, 02:51:19 PM »
Not feeling this ending at all. Was really feeling the show up until that match too. Time limit draw after a bunch of stalling by Aries...

Offline samoarowe

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 213
  • samoarowe
    • Da Wrestling Site
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2009, 02:52:22 PM »
The first 30 minutes of that match were very enjoyable. The second half totally dragged, aside from a few cool spots.

It was probably a good idea to leave the belt on Aries. The crowd really wasn't behind Black and would have preferred the match just end because it was boring rather than have Aries pay for his stalling.

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2009, 02:54:58 PM »
Awful. What a dumb ending. And a terrible idea to execute this for their first ever live ppv. Most of this show was good, but that main event put a damper on the whole event. It's like they sent out the Briscoes and KOW to brawl in an attempt to send the audience happy for such a shit main event. I'm kinda glad I didnt drive in during this snowstorm, because I would have been even more pissed at that main event and then dealing with the hassle of coming back home in this weather after that match.

Offline RedJed

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 4,767
  • Rasslin' Rambler
    • RedJed's Rasslin' Rants - Only on YouTube! The latest in the wild and wacky world of pro wrestling!!
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2009, 02:55:30 PM »
I didnt care for the draw finish at all.....this feud has clearly run its course as evident a bit by some of the reactions to the match as a whole by most of the fans there. Maybe they cut the crowd out of the audio at the end for good reason, at the reaction to that finish. The Briscos/KOW brawl was unneeded too. Just seemed like a very bland way to end the ppv.

All audio problems aside I liked that show for the most part. Went 4 and a half hours though (too long at times, started to lose interest in the show a few times because of that), and the main event certainly had its great points but really low points just as much. At any rate, the match had to be considered a pretty substantial dissapointment given the big match feel it had going into it. In other words, it just didn't deliver completely, although it had its' moments.

They gotta fix the problems production-wise for the next one though. It really dampered the show for me more than anything. We only got to hear like two minutes of Larry Sweeney on commentary. They should have had some staff member out there talking to the announcers on the side and letting them know of the issues so one or another (whichever had working headsets) could just call the match while someone actually FIXED the other headset(s). Shit like that is unexcusable why they really didn't fix it until about 2 minutes left on the show, and then at that point they lost the live crowd audio feed.

Offline wnyxmcneal

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9,915
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2009, 02:56:17 PM »
Wait, Black choked again?

Lol, Adam Pearce

Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2009, 02:59:40 PM »
Yeah...I'm guessing maybe they weren't sure how to handle his title win on HDNet since they just started pushing the Pick 6 stuff. That or they're gonna try and run Richards or somebody else against Aries...

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2009, 03:05:02 PM »
While I love KOW, it just puts Chris Hero further away from the World title. And really, he should be champion over Davey Richards. Fuck Davey Richards.

Offline Big Green

  • The King of the Mountain
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2,749
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2009, 03:11:26 PM »
So, Tyler Black is officially the Lex Luger of ROH?

Offline wnyxmcneal

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9,915
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2009, 03:20:07 PM »
He's been the Lex Luger since last year. Adam Pearce is an idiot

Offline Jebus

  • Be excellent to each other!
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 820
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2009, 03:50:34 PM »
But I actually wanted Luger to win the belt.

Black, different story.

Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2009, 10:00:45 PM »
A good deal of the comments I've read so far are blaming the crowd for being too smarky and ruining the main event and I'm just curious to see if anyone else thought that. I didn't particularly mind the crowd outside of one moment when they started chanting "twinkies" at the ref, and the match--while it had its moments down the stretch--had slowed to a point where I could understand why they'd turn on it. 

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #78 on: December 20, 2009, 12:39:39 AM »
I totally disagree. I read comments about that on the ROH board. Is that where you read them too? A lot of those posters will defend the company no matter what. I love ROH but the crowd had nothing to do with it. The crowd didn't kill the main event. The main event was just bad booking and boring, and the audience had no problem shitting allover it. They need to get rid of Adam Pearce. There's the true solution. Give the book to Cornette.

Something else I'd like to point out that bothered me, as much as I love The Kings Of Wrestling. Hero was involved in a brutal fight in which he got knocked out, and then he comes out later all fine to reform KOW, and lays out the Briscoes? The fuck? Not only that, but it TOTALLY overshadowed Kingston's win.

Offline samoarowe

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 213
  • samoarowe
    • Da Wrestling Site
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2009, 12:50:21 AM »
A less smarky crowd would have probably been more patient with all the Aries stalling, but the match still would have dragged with or without the negative crowd heat. If anything, it just made for a more surreal atmosphere. Seriously, as a ROH main event ever flopped like that with a live crowd before? I can't think of any occasions (other than maybe some of the feedback I heard for Morishima/Whitmer in 2007 or Lynn/Briscoe this year).

Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2009, 04:13:40 AM »
Quote
I totally disagree. I read comments about that on the ROH board. Is that where you read them too? A lot of those posters will defend the company no matter what.
Yeah, they were the main ones, so I figured there was a little bias there, but there were a few comments on 411 saying pretty much saying the same thing.

Offline LuckyLopez

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,118
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #81 on: December 20, 2009, 05:26:07 AM »
I'm a NYC fan who engaged in my share of smarky nights so I'm naturally biased but my thing is, even if NYC crowds are "terrible" and "bad" then whose call is it to hold many of your biggest shows there and to hold your first foray into an online PPV there?  The crowd may or may not be bad but if you have enough evidence to know that (and the evidence goes as far back as to ECW and has countless examples including major things like Big Show/Batista and Lesnar/Goldberg) then use some smarts and book to your audience.  Or find an audience who will react as you want.  If you can't then I think that says something about your booking plan, and if you just go into a situation where you're likely to upset the audience that just says something about your intelligence. 

NYC fans are assholes and smarks and douches and entitled and whatever else you want to say.  So don't expect them to be any different and don't push them because you won't win. 

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,176
  • King Cucaracha
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2009, 05:32:37 AM »
I don't buy into this whole "everything Pearce does is horrible, everything Gabe did was great" mantra that a lot of the lapsed ROH fans do. Pearce has his plusses and Gabe certainly has his negatives, enough that it was Gabe's booking at the end that turned me off of ROH.

But, this one is Pearce's fault. Tyler needed to win tonight and they needed a big blow-away match to say to the lapsed ROH fans who bought the PPV (of which I know there were a fair few), "look, don't listen to all the negativity, see for yourself what we're putting out there". Because I've heard some good reviews for the Final Countdown Tour shows amongst the apathy and Gabe-(EVO)love. But to book a time-limit draw and what was apparantly an old-school, slow paced one at that, was the wrong decision and the wrong match at the worst possible time.

Offline The ghost of bps21

  • Wade the Duck says: Your brush with Greatness is OVER!
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26,983
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #83 on: December 20, 2009, 05:35:50 AM »
I saw the first half of the match and thought it was quite good, but I stopped bothering when Aries was doing his stalling because it both killed the match DEAD and I realized they were going to a draw which I had no interest in seeing.

And I watch TNA.

THAT'S BAD BOOKING.

Offline Venkman

  • Dr Venkman PhD
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 29,106
  • You don't know me and you don't have to know me
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #84 on: December 20, 2009, 05:40:44 AM »
I heard that Tyler Black is unimpressed with people who didn't like the match.

Offline Chris G

  • Silence
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 753
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2009, 05:49:43 AM »
I heard that Tyler Black is unimpressed with people who didn't like the match.


Offline I Know You Like Sugar

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,176
  • King Cucaracha
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #86 on: December 20, 2009, 05:51:04 AM »
^ Definite resemblance.

Offline The ghost of bps21

  • Wade the Duck says: Your brush with Greatness is OVER!
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26,983
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #87 on: December 20, 2009, 05:51:17 AM »
Does anyone remember what was going on in the ring when that was taken?

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,176
  • King Cucaracha
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #88 on: December 20, 2009, 05:52:29 AM »
Punk was dressed up as Jeff Hardy.

Offline mellow

  • NXT Pro
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 2,216
    • Hell no.
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2009, 05:52:33 AM »
Does anyone remember what was going on in the ring when that was taken?


CM Punk came out dressed as Jeff Hardy a week after he retired him.

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,176
  • King Cucaracha
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #90 on: December 20, 2009, 06:01:42 AM »
So, yeah, I have no idea where ROH can and will go from here.

From a business stand-point first and foremost, this show doesn't look like it's going to spark a big period of excitement in ROH. The internet PPV concept may struggle in the future too.

From a booking standpoint, now what? Aries has now become what Nigel became under Gabe, the heel champion who didn't the drop the belt when the time was right and has now run out of challengers. The babyface side is weaker than the heel side as it is. Another reason why Aries should have lost. Kingston isn't going to win the title. Cabana's had his chance. Omega... probably too soon. The only option I can think of, the only option at all, is Roderick Strong. Unless someone turns. Which could happen. But I get the feeling they want to run this Aries/Cornette angle for a while first and they're going to need viable challengers for him to overcome if that's the case.

Offline Papacita

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 242
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #91 on: December 20, 2009, 07:28:33 AM »
If I had to guess, I really see them trying to hype a Black/Aries cage match on HDNet and maybe having the title change there, if at all.  They've got a really weird disconnect between live events and the TV show, and I'm pretty sure the last set of tapings were held before they had the PPV details all worked out, so maybe they felt like their hands were tied in that regard. 

From a character perspective, I think an extended program between the ruthless Davey Richards and a squeamish Aries would be very interesting, but apparently Aries beat him recently as well.

Offline Marie I

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,601
  • FLAM
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #92 on: December 20, 2009, 08:11:32 AM »
I don't buy into this whole "everything Pearce does is horrible, everything Gabe did was great" mantra that a lot of the lapsed ROH fans do. Pearce has his plusses and Gabe certainly has his negatives, enough that it was Gabe's booking at the end that turned me off of ROH.

But, this one is Pearce's fault. Tyler needed to win tonight and they needed a big blow-away match to say to the lapsed ROH fans who bought the PPV (of which I know there were a fair few), "look, don't listen to all the negativity, see for yourself what we're putting out there". Because I've heard some good reviews for the Final Countdown Tour shows amongst the apathy and Gabe-(EVO)love. But to book a time-limit draw and what was apparantly an old-school, slow paced one at that, was the wrong decision and the wrong match at the worst possible time.

I got turned off of ROH a few months prior to Gabe getting fired because the booking was pretty bad and the shows were super boring, so I'm not one of those fans who thinks Gabe was perfect, but I think he was way better than Pearce. I see it as Gabe just having a really bad slump for a while, but Pearce has pretty much no booking experience. And for a company that is trying to grow and has a tv deal and now an internet ppv deal, I think it's better to have someone with experience to book for them.

Offline LuckyLopez

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,118
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #93 on: December 20, 2009, 08:42:52 AM »
I zoned out on ROH well before Gabe was gone so I don't know that I really see a huge difference.  I don't know of Pearce does more draws or what.  As said Gabe did this same sort of Nigel/Aries champ run.  I don't really care about the undercard but ROH's always been cursed to having to rebuild 50% of its roster every couple of years because it burns talent or loses them to TNA/WWE.  So I dunno if its Pearce or if its ROH.  I never really thought Gabe was blessed with much more than the knowledge to know to keep things simple, but at least he always seemed to have a big summer story that got me interested (CZW; Next Generation; Age of the Fall) and I don't recall Pearce having one.  That's the one tangible difference I see bu I'm not paying that close attention.

From a business perspective I really doubt anything will change for ROH.  The show is getting mixed/negative reviews and the production problems won't appeal to anyone.  Odds are the market for the streaming PPVs is basically the already existing ticket purchasers who don't live near an event and any agoraphobic DVD buyers you have.  If that's enough to turn a profit on the production then it will continue.  But there's no positive buzz coming out of last night telling me, the casual ROH fan who considered buying the show, that I should buy the next one. 

If the appeal is going to keep being "real good wrestling" then you're not really going to draw any more of an audience than you already established from years of that.  Getting people to drop $15 for a show they can have for $5 more on DVD takes convincing them they NEED to see it right away because of the story and buzz and doesn't look like ROH created any of that here.

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5,176
  • King Cucaracha
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #94 on: December 20, 2009, 08:53:56 AM »
If the appeal is going to keep being "real good wrestling" then you're not really going to draw any more of an audience than you already established from years of that.  Getting people to drop $15 for a show they can have for $5 more on DVD takes convincing them they NEED to see it right away because of the story and buzz and doesn't look like ROH created any of that here.

The thing is, they did.

The thread on the F4W board reached about 30 pages, there were plenty of people who gave this show a shot because A- It was the first one and they wanted to support the idea, and/or B- The hype videos for the show were pretty damn good and the card looked strong. And I know for a fact, a few of those people who ordered are people who don't buy the DVDs regularly anymore or stay up to date with the TV show weekly. So, if we take that one board as a sampling of the fanbase ROH is able to reach, they did sell people on the concept of watching the show live being preferrable to just waiting 3/4 months for the DVD to drop.

The problem is now going to be the second one, because what they actually offered on this 1st show wasn't good enough. But ROH did grab people for this show. Which makes the end result more disappointing.

Offline LuckyLopez

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,118
ROH Final Battle 2009
« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2009, 09:37:24 AM »
Well yeah, that's what I meant.  I've never been to a ROH show and buy DVDs sporadically but I follow it at least casually online and have put thought to attending shows in the past and making that next step as a fan.  A relatively cheap online PPV appealed to me as a way to take that step but a little easier and ultimately the reasons I didn't were mostly stuff like me not trusting my computer, not trusting ROH to not have some production issues, and me being busy yesterday and not cluing in until after the show started.

But yeah... the impression I get the next day is that ROH's production was a real hassle, that the show ran much longer than I think I'd be comfortable sitting in front of my computer watching, and that it delivered a very unsatisfying main event that put a damper on the show.  So I think ultimately you're going to have a lot of people like me or a lot of people who did buy who don't put much thought to it next time.  The production might improve as they learn from mistakes and maybe they'll adjust the booking to make it more appealing to a mainstream audience than just still to its existing audience more than happy with a 4 1/2 hour show ending with a 60 minute draw. 

By its basic design the first time was going to draw interest just like TNA going live on Monday draws interest.  Its new and its potentially big so the expectation is that the company might pull out something special to make it a winner.  If they don't then you start to establish expectations.  Or to quote a cliche, you never get a second chance to make a first impression.