Author Topic: WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009  (Read 4555 times)

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Offline Obi Chris Kenobi

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2009, 05:13:51 PM »
To have both heels with a belt lose via DQ to retain in a matter of weeks is pretty lazy.

Offline UterusJuice

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2009, 05:21:29 PM »
Overall I have no complaints over tonight's event but I have to question the logic over Punk. I don't go nuts over the guy like everyone else on the internet but he was booked badly tonight. I would have stayed with Umaga beating him clean like they did but then have him come out after Edge won/survived the main event. Then you have Umaga as the #1 contender. I guess Vince really has something against guys getting over in their home town.

Offline Bigelow34

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2009, 11:59:48 PM »
Flair looked jacked too and had his tight shirt sleeves rolled up just enough to show off the guns. I hope he stays out of the ring and just manages Triple H, Batista and Shawn against Legacy.

Offline AntiLeaf33

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2009, 12:51:45 AM »
When was the last time a PPV Main Event ended with a Superplex?

Offline JHawk

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2009, 12:55:48 AM »
It was actually a jumping DDT off the top rope, but I'm not sure a PPV has ever ended with a superplex.

Offline Big Beard Booty Daddy

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2009, 01:03:48 AM »
I have got to find that Miz promo. It just sounds awesome.
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Offline Jingus

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2009, 01:05:31 AM »
I'm not sure a PPV has ever ended with a superplex.
King of the Ring 2001, Austin vs Benoit vs Jericho.  Oddly, Austin was the one taking the superplex, but he still rolled over and pinned the guy who'd just given him the superplex.  Anyone ever find out what the hell was going on there?  One of the odder PPV finishes I've ever seen, like the women's 3-way at Mania 19 which ended with a boot to the stomach.  

Offline HSJ

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2009, 01:15:31 AM »
Isn't that the spot that destroyed Benoits neck, leading to his neck surgery?


DTF

Offline Sabre

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2009, 01:32:42 AM »
I think Benoits neck was due for surgery before then, but the superplex caused enough damage to cause a rushed finish.

God how i loved the crossface/walls combo they kept pimping Austin with.

Offline Rock Star From Mars

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2009, 01:43:57 AM »
"It's almost like Randy Orton's emotion, is emotionless"


I love Michael Cole.

Offline Jingus

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2009, 02:07:33 AM »
I think Benoits neck was due for surgery before then, but the superplex caused enough damage to cause a rushed finish.
Which would make sense... if it were a singles match.  It was not.  Jericho was the other guy, standing right there, healthy as a horse.  Even if Benoit couldn't continue, they couldn't just cart him out on a stretcher while the other Chris improvised a new finish with Austin?  Instead, we got one of the most nonsensical endings ever, with a guy who just took a move pinning the guy who just did the move to him. 

Offline wnyxmcneal

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2009, 02:11:08 AM »
Benoit's neck got fucked after the diving headbutt through a table spot from TLC 3.

Offline Jingus

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2009, 02:15:29 AM »
I always heard it was the diving headbutt off the cage.  Or maybe I'm confusing that with Angle fucking his neck up with the moonsault off the cage in the same match.  Either way, Benoit was doing a lot of hellaciously dangerous stunts in a very short period of time, and it definitely caught up with him. 

Offline AntiLeaf33

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2009, 02:18:36 AM »
After watching the end of the WHC match again I see that it was more of an Edgucation from the top rope then a suplex. I must have been browsing the net or paying attention to something else when it was happening live and all I heard was a comment about how that was a devastating suplex, thus the earlier comment.

Offline fazzle

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2009, 02:28:07 AM »
at KOTR 2001, didn't Benoit actually superplex Jericho, leading to Austin pinning Benoit?

Offline Jingus

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2009, 02:29:49 AM »
...did he?  Hang on. 

::clicky clicky Youtube::

Well damn, you're right.  Which makes, like, equally little sense.  Why pin the guy who just did the move, instead of Jericho who just took the move? 

Online Aero

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2009, 02:30:43 AM »
No, I'm pretty sure Benoit suplexed Austin, which made the finish all the more stranger since Austin covered Benoit off of that. Technically, it wasn't a superplex but just a back suplex off the top.

Edit: Nevermind :(

Offline fazzle

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2009, 02:33:56 AM »
Yeah, it still makes no sense, not trying to argue that at all.  I was there live, and I just remember going "....Wha?   That's it, really?"

Offline HSJ

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2009, 02:48:53 AM »
Both people usually sell the superplex spot. Because, you know, you're both falling from the top rope. It hurts and stuff.


DTF

Offline RedJed

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2009, 03:04:15 AM »
That finish at KOTR was done because they were going to be giving Benoit some time off and they had to manufacture a spot to sell that he would be out of action for awhile. So basically, he was already injured, but they worked that superplex spot to make it look like that was what really injured him, hence the odd (planned) finish.

Offline foleyfanforever88

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2009, 04:58:22 AM »
Anybody have a good place where I can download the show? (not a torrent)

Offline Adam

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2009, 05:01:20 AM »
Why don't you want a torrent? They're much better than direct downloads.

Offline Sabre

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2009, 05:42:02 AM »
Why don't you want a torrent? They're much better than direct downloads.

^o) i dont undertsand this comment.  Id rather have a constant 800kbs direct speed than a potentially slow torrent.

Offline Kotzenjunge

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2009, 05:47:06 AM »
The streams are getting hammered. There were four or five replays of Backlash last month all day Monday, it's about impossible to find one today.

Offline Adam

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2009, 06:30:15 AM »
Why don't you want a torrent? They're much better than direct downloads.

^o) i dont undertsand this comment.  Id rather have a constant 800kbs direct speed than a potentially slow torrent.

Hmm, depends which way you look at it I guess. With downloads, they often seem to peter out to low speeds, at with with torrents you've always got people (as long as its a popular download) to leech from. I hit speeds up to 1.5mb a second on torrent.

Offline Papacita

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2009, 08:38:53 AM »
Re: the KOTR 2001 finish, didn't Austin actually get hurt pretty bad off that run-in by Booker T?  IIRC he was out for about a month afterwards (hence the Kurt Angle hugging skits) and I always figured that was the reasoning behind the odd finish to the 3-way.

Offline HTQ

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2009, 09:18:59 AM »
RE: The Punk finish

From Meltzer on the post-JD WOR:

Figured when Punk did that clean of a job he'd be coming out later, either to challenge for a title or just do a run-in to cost someone a match. Punk did have a lot of heat prior to a recent interview, even though he was mostly smart politically in the answers he gave; one possible misstep was the comment that Evan Bourne was better than DiBiase or Rhodes. However, an answer that almost certainly did him no favors was when he was asked if he ever thought that he and Samoa Joe would be both be world champions and he said yes. From day one Punk when was brought up to the roster, Dave was always told that Punk has so much heat but when the reasons were explained, Dave felt they were always 'trivial and stupid'. However, for whatever reason, and Dave speculates on several, Punk just has heat. Dave reckons a primary reason is that Punk is seen has being too confident in himself, but then he points out that every wrestler who is really good as great confidence in themselves, which is part of what makes them really good. Dave does say it might be justified because he hears from people knocking Punk who are not petty and usually get along with everyone.

Dave thinks that, ultimately, Punk lost because they were in Chicago and Punk was super over and the mindset was that Punk was more over than he should be. Also comments that it's almost a rule of thumb to beat people in their hometowns. Dave then brings up an interesting point. Punk was the Grand Marshal of the Thanksgiving Day Parade in Chicago last year, and it's a mainstream deal. WWE is a company that is desperate for mainstream publicity of any kind, and when Chicago did that for Punk, WWE would have been smart to protect the guy and not beat him in his hometown as he could have a been a big hometown hero who could get mainstream publicity for them.

Offline Sabre

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2009, 09:26:29 AM »
Re: the KOTR 2001 finish, didn't Austin actually get hurt pretty bad off that run-in by Booker T?  IIRC he was out for about a month afterwards (hence the Kurt Angle hugging skits) and I always figured that was the reasoning behind the odd finish to the 3-way.

Thats right, he mentions it on the "What?" dvd that he was pretty messed up so they put him and Angle together just to keep him on camera.

Offline foleyfanforever88

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2009, 10:15:01 AM »
I just finished watching the show (except I skipped over Show-Cena), and I have to say it was one of the better PPVs the E has put on in a long time. The first 90 minutes or so were awesome. Jericho-Rey was definitely the MOTN and I can't wait for a rematch/series between the two. I'm looking forward to rematches between Shelton-Morrison and Punk-Umaga as well. The great crowd made the show even better.

Offline Adam

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #79 on: May 18, 2009, 10:48:10 AM »
Anybody else thinking that we're heading for a Hair vs Mask match?

Offline Jebus

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #80 on: May 18, 2009, 12:19:22 PM »
I'm not sure a PPV has ever ended with a superplex.
One of the odder PPV finishes I've ever seen, like the women's 3-way at Mania 19 which ended with a boot to the stomach.  

It was a "Chick kick". Maybe it was not well executed but the match was supposed to end with Trish's finisher.

Offline SBofn

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #81 on: May 18, 2009, 01:05:17 PM »
Dave thinks that, ultimately, Punk lost because they were in Chicago and Punk was super over and the mindset was that Punk was more over than he should be.

Asinine.
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Offline JHawk

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #82 on: May 18, 2009, 01:06:56 PM »
Dave thinks that, ultimately, Punk lost because they were in Chicago and Punk was super over and the mindset was that Punk was more over than he should be.

Asinine.
"But we don't want people to like him!"

Offline Papacita

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2009, 04:04:07 PM »
If that's the case, why bother putting him over Edge or having him win MITB? 

Offline FroGG_NeaLL

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2009, 12:36:07 AM »
So they can have him established enough to slap the belt back on him and make a point that thier top guy is drug free the next time people bitch about drugs.

Offline JPopStarKami

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2009, 02:23:24 AM »
RE: The Punk finish

From Meltzer on the post-JD WOR:

tl;dr Punk is being berried!

*facepalm*

Not this shit again.

He lost because they're building a feud, not because they want to bury him. Meltzer's idle speculation is just an attempt to get news again by saying X internet star has heat.

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2009, 02:29:55 AM »
RE: The Punk finish

From Meltzer on the post-JD WOR:

tl;dr Punk is being berried!

*facepalm*

Not this shit again.

He lost because they're building a feud, not because they want to bury him. Meltzer's idle speculation is just an attempt to get news again by saying X internet star has heat.

I'm still amazed Punk hasn't been fired. Every other slow news week he gets buried, the guy must have so much heat on him it's untrue! I for one as an internet wrestling fan am continually outraged.

Offline HTQ

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2009, 04:06:40 AM »
RE: The Punk finish

From Meltzer on the post-JD WOR:

tl;dr Punk is being berried!

*facepalm*

Not this shit again.

He lost because they're building a feud, not because they want to bury him. Meltzer's idle speculation is just an attempt to get news again by saying X internet star has heat.
Meltzer is idly speculating but you're not?

I love how the people who bitch about the 'Punk is being buried' thing are the ones kicking up the biggest fuss over this. Most people accept it as part of the fickle business that is wrestling. Yet the ones who make the biggest noise are those who think they're too cool to care about someone they think is the latest internet fad.

Offline JPopStarKami

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2009, 05:04:54 AM »
RE: The Punk finish

From Meltzer on the post-JD WOR:

tl;dr Punk is being berried!

*facepalm*

Not this shit again.

He lost because they're building a feud, not because they want to bury him. Meltzer's idle speculation is just an attempt to get news again by saying X internet star has heat.
Meltzer is idly speculating but you're not?

I love how the people who bitch about the 'Punk is being buried' thing are the ones kicking up the biggest fuss over this. Most people accept it as part of the fickle business that is wrestling. Yet the ones who make the biggest noise are those who think they're too cool to care about someone they think is the latest internet fad.

No, I'm not idly speculating. Have you seen Smackdown? They're continuing his feud with Umaga. Now, if Punk loses again to him that'll be more of a burial, but it doesn't seem like it will go that way, since they've been making him look like a threat to the championship in the past weeks.

As far as me making a big fuss, I'm just stating my opinion on what Meltzer said, that's all. I'm not trying to make a 'big fuss'.

Offline HTQ

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2009, 05:11:34 AM »
No one actually said they think Punk is being buried. Meltzer said that it could be a reason, yes, but then said he disagreed with that. Who actually has said they think the finish was designed to bury Punk? Take him down a notch? Maybe.

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2009, 05:11:54 AM »
Just because I don't buy into the "Punk buried" talk every time it comes up doesn't mean I "don't care" about Punk.

That's really the problem. It's assumed that you must be concerned for Punk's safety in the company if you like him. Which is, IMO, why the story comes up so often, because a lot of Punk's fans are. I don't doubt that some people in the company don't like him and he's occassionally being knocked down a peg. But it seems like the slightest suggestion of him not being booked strongly and it's in the Observer the next day as "PUNK IN THE DOGHOUSE!" There doesn't seem to be enough rationalising it, it's all or nothing, push or buried as it were, when it comes to Punk.

Let's face it, if he was in trouble and had heat as often as the story comes up the guy wouldn't be in the position he's in.

Offline HTQ

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2009, 05:17:25 AM »
It's possible, and very likely from listening to what Meltzer said, that the reason stuff about Punk crops up so often is that he's someone who generates a strong reaction from everybody who meets him. From what everybody else has said about Punk, he's not someone who blends in and who people hardly notice and talk about.

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2009, 05:30:06 AM »
It's possible, and very likely from listening to what Meltzer said, that the reason stuff about Punk crops up so often is that he's someone who generates a strong reaction from everybody who meets him. From what everybody else has said about Punk, he's not someone who blends in and who people hardly notice and talk about.

I can buy that. Punk does seem... self confident, shall we say.

I'm not saying Meltzer's lying about Punk and I'm not saying that it's not within reason for whoever his sources are to believe it to be true. But I just don't buy it this time.

It made no rational sense for Punk to win the first match against Umaga. It made no rational sense for Umaga to lose his first match in however many weeks. And it made no real sense for Punk to come out and cash in MITB. Yet because the show was in Chicago, it's suddenly equated as "Punk has heat for something he said in an interview and therefore he had to be taken down a notch."

People lose in their hometown all the time. It's generally accepted that Vince likes to do it for whatever reason. Why is to be half-expected with most of the roster, but a punishment when it happens to CM Punk? It just seems a little too much like piecing stuff together to make a story to me. I could easily be wrong, maybe because some people are so overly sensitive about Punk it's made me the opposite when it comes to these stories, but that's the feeling I got reading it.

Offline Jingus

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2009, 05:57:22 AM »
Vince does like having people lose in their hometown, true.  However, it's a bit odd to have someone lose in their hometown by getting pinned clean in the first match. 

Especially in these circumstances; the whole point of the feud is that Punk keeps trying to cash in his MITB, and Umaga keeps stopping him.  He tried this every week for like a month straight.  The first night he didn't try to cash it in was... in his hometown?  It didn't make any storyline sense for him to suddenly stop trying this at the PPV when he was attempting it on every other occasion. On TV he'd been feuding with the world champ, and on PPV he goes to jobbing in the opener? 

Keep in mind that Punk is one of those guys whose hometown is made a much bigger deal than usual.  Of the top of your head, how many people can tell me where Batista, Triple H, Big Show, or Jericho are from?  But everyone knows that Punk is from Chicago, because he's one of those guys who gets his hometown made into an integral part of his character.  He's a well-known local celebrity there, was even the grand marshal for last year's Thanksgiving parade in that city, which is not an insignificant achievement.  So winning or losing in his hometown is a bigger deal than it is for most people. 

The funny thing is, I don't even like Punk.  I'd be personally happier if he was doing C-show jobber duty rather than being pushed.  But I can't deny that he's very over, and nobody should deny that the office is treating this very over wrestler very strangely in some ways. 

Offline JPopStarKami

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2009, 06:05:56 AM »
Especially in these circumstances; the whole point of the feud is that Punk keeps trying to cash in his MITB, and Umaga keeps stopping him.  He tried this every week for like a month straight.  The first night he didn't try to cash it in was... in his hometown?  It didn't make any storyline sense for him to suddenly stop trying this at the PPV when he was attempting it on every other occasion. On TV he'd been feuding with the world champ, and on PPV he goes to jobbing in the opener? 

Because Umaga beat him earlier in the night, and plus Edge won his match fairly convincingly...it wouldn't have been smart for Punk to try it that night, Edge probably had enough gas in the tank to fend off a Punk cash in, if you want to look at it from a kayfabe point of view.

But otherwise, they just didn't want to pull the trigger on it yet, because they'd kind of have to if he came out, unless Umaga interfered yet again, and then it's just the same thing over again. You couldn't end the PPV with that.

Offline I Know You Like Sugar

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2009, 06:14:02 AM »
Especially in these circumstances; the whole point of the feud is that Punk keeps trying to cash in his MITB, and Umaga keeps stopping him.  He tried this every week for like a month straight.  The first night he didn't try to cash it in was... in his hometown?  It didn't make any storyline sense for him to suddenly stop trying this at the PPV when he was attempting it on every other occasion. On TV he'd been feuding with the world champ, and on PPV he goes to jobbing in the opener?

To be fair, Grisham brought it up during the match that Punk probably wouldn't cash in if Umaga continued to do damage to him because he wouldn't be at 100%.

And even if storyline wise he should have cashed, they wouldn't have put him over Edge. So if he cashed in he'd have to lose, or they'd have to do the tease with Umaga. And if Punk losing in Chicago was bad, imagine the firestorm that would have created if they teased him winning the World Title and he didn't. So really, him losing to Umaga was the best way to write him out of cashing in.

Offline Next USC #55

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2009, 06:16:30 AM »
how many people can tell me where Batista, Triple H, Big Show, or Jericho are from? 
 

Washington DC, Greenwich CT, Tampa FL and either Manhassets NY or Winnipeg in Canada.

Offline Jingus

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2009, 08:41:07 AM »
And are any of their hometowns made as big a deal of as Punk's is?  Notwithstanding Hunter's old Greenwich Snob gimmick?  That was my point.  For a few people, they make a much bigger deal out of their hometown.  Punk is one of those guys. 

Sure, it made sense for Punk to get destroyed so that he didn't cash in MITB.  (Well, it would've made a lot more sense to just not book this MITB angle leading up to a PPV in which he's jobbing in the opening match, but clearly long-term planning is not their strong suit these days.)  However, I still don't see why it made sense for him to get pinned clean in the middle of the ring and not get his heat back.  The Chicago crowd saw their hometown boy get decisively beaten, period, with nothing to cheer about.  You can't do that often, or you get reactions like the "Not this shit again!" heat that the crowd gives to latter-day burials of Rey in San Diego or JR in Oklahoma.  That sort of thing does not motivate your live crowds to come back next time.  Especially didn't help that of the two title matches at JD, one ended in a DQ and the other with the heel winning clean. 

Offline RedJed

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WWE Judgment Day - May 17 2009
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2009, 09:25:29 AM »
The finish to Punk/Umaga didn't really bother me that much because it was an ultra-competitive match that I thought saw both guys look pretty damn good to me by the end of it......since they both worked hard and put over the effort of each other basically, I felt the finish didn't affect the long terms effects of anything.

That's ideally how most matches should be, when you think of it, and ultimately I think that is what the company hopes for as well, in terms of that a clean finish by a heel doesn't ALWAYS have to be a screwjob (and in most cases, sometimes needs to be clean TO get heels over and programs to continue) and when there are times that a heel wins clean, you don't want to damage the babyface in the process (especially one who is over and is getting pushed) so you protect him, in a sense, by making him look great in there against the heel and coming *just* that close to beating him.

Ultimately, that match on the ppv just makes me want to see the rematch that much more.