Author Topic: Microsoft Prattle v2  (Read 37899 times)

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Offline Smues

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #100 on: May 22, 2013, 10:24:01 AM »


I want Jimmy Fallon to be dead. That doesn't make me a bad person.

Offline Smues

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #101 on: May 22, 2013, 01:02:00 PM »
I want Jimmy Fallon to be dead. That doesn't make me a bad person.

Offline Venkman

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #102 on: May 22, 2013, 01:05:49 PM »
That was quite long, but worth it.

I also feel the need to note I just bought a 360 last year (because the one I bought in 2008 just stopped working, because, you know, it is an Xbox 360) and I intend on that having be the Microsoft console I use until at least 2015.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #103 on: May 22, 2013, 01:58:12 PM »
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline The ghost of bps21

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #104 on: May 22, 2013, 03:05:50 PM »
Is the concept of charging you to play used copies even legal?  If I buy a game...or anything in the world for that matter...I become the owner and have the right to sell it to someone else or give it to someone else, or burn it and dance around the flames...because it's mine.  It doesn't seem like someone else should profit from my property on second sale.  Someone take them to court.

Offline Smues

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #105 on: May 22, 2013, 03:09:30 PM »
I assume they have some legal footing on the grounds they're not selling you the game they're selling you a single user non-transferable license...or some shit.

I want Jimmy Fallon to be dead. That doesn't make me a bad person.

Offline The ghost of bps21

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #106 on: May 22, 2013, 03:10:58 PM »
I'm sure that can be beaten in court.  It'd be like saying "But I sold them the car...I just kept the engine".  Taking away the ability to play makes it not a game anymore.

Offline KingPK

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #107 on: May 22, 2013, 03:31:14 PM »
Is the concept of charging you to play used copies even legal?  If I buy a game...or anything in the world for that matter...I become the owner and have the right to sell it to someone else or give it to someone else, or burn it and dance around the flames...because it's mine.  It doesn't seem like someone else should profit from my property on second sale. Someone take them to court.

Isn't that the whole point of "trading in" a game or a car?  What do you think happens to it after you give up your right to the property?  It gets sold by the entity you sold it to for profit.

Offline The ghost of bps21

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #108 on: May 22, 2013, 03:32:25 PM »
I'm not talking about selling it to a third party like Gamestop.  I'm talking about giving my property to my friend so he can use it.  There shouldn't be a charge on him for having my property...that I gave him.

Offline The ghost of bps21

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #109 on: May 22, 2013, 03:33:18 PM »
By second sale I mean MY right to sell it.  Microsoft doesn't get a cut even when I sell it to Gamestop for that matter.  No one should...it's mine.  Of for the car analogy...Ford isn't getting a cut off my car if I sell it.  "Thanks for selling me your car...now I have to pay Ford to activate the keys".  Nonsense.  And worse...in this analogy they'd have to pay them to even borrow the car lol.

Offline KingPK

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #110 on: May 22, 2013, 03:39:20 PM »
I'm not talking about selling it to a third party like Gamestop.  I'm talking about giving my property to my friend so he can use it.  There shouldn't be a charge on him for having my property...that I gave him.

I honestly don't know this, so I'll ask: can you give games to your friends over Steam without them having to pay?  From what I understand, when you buy a physical disc PC game you have to put a one-time Steam key in to play it and the disc can't be used in another machine after that.  I'm not a PC gamer so I might be wrong, but isn't that pretty similar to what we're talking about?  Is there even a used market for PC games?

Offline Thoth

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2013, 04:10:51 PM »
Is the concept of charging you to play used copies even legal?  If I buy a game...or anything in the world for that matter...I become the owner and have the right to sell it to someone else or give it to someone else, or burn it and dance around the flames...because it's mine.  It doesn't seem like someone else should profit from my property on second sale.  Someone take them to court.

You don't own it. Read the license agreement. All you have is a copy of the disc for convenience. This is actually how games have been for all time. Now they're just enforcing it.

Offline AnonymousBroccoli

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2013, 05:46:21 PM »
I honestly don't know this, so I'll ask: can you give games to your friends over Steam without them having to pay?  From what I understand, when you buy a physical disc PC game you have to put a one-time Steam key in to play it and the disc can't be used in another machine after that.  I'm not a PC gamer so I might be wrong, but isn't that pretty similar to what we're talking about?  Is there even a used market for PC games?

Steam games are permanently tied to your account. You can technically give a friend your account credentials and let them log in, download, and play... but that's risky, and I'm sure it's against the Steam TOS.

Physical copies of PC games these days will often come with a single-use code and an install disc (and sometimes not even the disc, I understand). It'll depend on what the publisher decides to use for DRM, but many will use Steamworks. Most, if not all recent EA titles will use Origin. Blizzard games since World of WarCraft use Battle.net. (Previous games used the original Battle.net, but just for multiplayer and updates.) Many games under the Games for Windows Live banner will use their DRM; some older ones may just be there for the sake of branding. And many recent Ubisoft will use Uplay. In all of those cases, you install the appropriate client software, create an account, activate the code, and it's permanently yours. Basically, you check the back of the case, read the fine print, and if you find "INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED", then you're getting hosed somehow.

Some games may still use a simple disc check, or a CD key, or maybe even nothing at all. But they're probably few and far between—especially among major publishers. The only one that comes to mind off-hand would be The Witcher 2. Even there, it seems like the developer may have had to fight for it with their publishers. The developer being CD Projekt Red, who are also known for running GOG.com—another online PC game store, with a DRM-free philosophy.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2013, 05:50:41 PM »
I'm not talking about selling it to a third party like Gamestop.  I'm talking about giving my property to my friend so he can use it.  There shouldn't be a charge on him for having my property...that I gave him.

I honestly don't know this, so I'll ask: can you give games to your friends over Steam without them having to pay?  From what I understand, when you buy a physical disc PC game you have to put a one-time Steam key in to play it and the disc can't be used in another machine after that.  I'm not a PC gamer so I might be wrong, but isn't that pretty similar to what we're talking about?  Is there even a used market for PC games?
Not technically that way, but you can activate your Steam profile on another machine and thus give others access to it. That being said, and not that you're doing this - I'm just gonna bring it up though - I don't like the argument of "well PC games have always had serial keys so it's no different" when what we're talking about here are home console games, none of which have ever had specific serial keys tied to them (save for DCUO as far as I can recall).

As far as a used PC market goes.. I have seen them for sale. I've never purchased one though so I have no idea how it would work with serial keys, etc. especially for older games that don't have the option to buy a pass online. Though I am sure a lot of them work the old way where the code is built into the game and any valid serial key will work regardless of being used already (since checking over the net for previously used keys hasn't existed that long).
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Offline SBofn

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #114 on: May 22, 2013, 05:51:49 PM »
That OUYA is looking better every minute.
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Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #115 on: May 22, 2013, 05:52:17 PM »
I wish mine would hurry up and ship already!
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Offline Sabre

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #116 on: May 23, 2013, 04:52:19 AM »
Is the concept of charging you to play used copies even legal?  If I buy a game...or anything in the world for that matter...I become the owner and have the right to sell it to someone else or give it to someone else, or burn it and dance around the flames...because it's mine.  It doesn't seem like someone else should profit from my property on second sale.  Someone take them to court.

Read your license agreement for the 360.  Microsoft claim all ownership.

Offline Youth N Asia

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #117 on: May 23, 2013, 03:36:13 PM »
Holy fuck... http://kotaku.com/you-will-be-able-to-trade-xbox-one-games-online-micros-509140825


Other users on the console will be able to play that game as well, Harrison said. So you don't need to buy multiple games per family. "With the built-in parental controls of the system it is shared amog the users of the device," he said.


LOfuckingL at this coming off like its a selling point.

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Offline Venkman

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #119 on: May 24, 2013, 03:05:57 AM »
Did I not, repeatedly, "jokingly" refer to all the features they were talking about in the first 10 minutes of the reveal as being cyberstalker like?

Offline Sabre

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #120 on: May 24, 2013, 04:48:20 AM »
Imagine if you use the Xbox to watch a "downloaded" tv episode or the like and get reported.  Shit will hit the fans.

Offline Smues

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #121 on: May 24, 2013, 04:55:05 AM »
I knew about the Kinect spying bullshit patent, but since they haven't mentioned it yet I figured I'd wait until it's confirmed to rail about it, since we've already got so many other reasons to hate the one. But trust me if 'Netflix shuts off with more than 4 people in the room' actually happens I'll have plenty of four letter caps locked words to throw around.
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Offline HSJ

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #122 on: May 24, 2013, 04:57:39 AM »
I love my 360, but with all of the issues going on with the One, I'm just going to sit back and see what the PS4 will be like.


DTF

Offline Youth N Asia

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #123 on: May 24, 2013, 04:59:58 AM »
PS4 is a killer presentation away from owning gaming outright.

Offline DorianS

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #124 on: May 24, 2013, 06:18:26 AM »
Yeah, okay, what I had before I rewrote this was just mind numbingly dumb. Even for me.

The more I hear about this system, the less I actually want to deal with it. And the more it makes me think of stupid things to say.

So maybe the Xbox One is trying to lower your IQ to 1, so that when it comes out, you'll be brainwashed into buying it.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #125 on: May 24, 2013, 06:44:58 AM »
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/24/report-publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales/

Quote
Here's the delicate part: the publisher and Microsoft will now receive a cut from the sale. Previously, a company like GameStop pocketed 100 percent of the used game sale, now ConsoleDeals.co.uk is reporting it could be significantly less if Microsoft has oversight of the market. The pre-owned market would go on, but its glorious margins for retailers would be destroyed. Meanwhile, publishers would finally get what they've always dreamed of: a piece of that pie.

This is setting an interesting precedent..
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Offline devo

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #126 on: May 24, 2013, 07:10:32 AM »
Which means that Gamestop et al are going to offer even less in compensation to try and maintain their profit margins. If that becomes widely known, the knowledge that XBONE versions of multi-console games possess less resell value than PS4 versions might be something people take into consideration when choosing a console or merely which version of a game they buy.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #127 on: May 24, 2013, 07:14:34 AM »
I'm also thinking.. if Microsoft can get away with implementing this.. what is to stop any company from enacting some kind of license agreement wherein if you sell their product second-hand, that x-amount needs to come back to the company. Not just thinking about entertainment stuff, too, but cars, etc. It's far fetched, I know.. but I would've never thought that this would happen 10 years ago.
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Offline The Amazing Rando

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #128 on: May 24, 2013, 07:56:03 AM »
I hope you all aren't super-fond of console gaming, because this is probably its last hurrah.

I'm not saying there won't be "video games" in the home, but it's not going to look like this anymore and it's probably not going to be Sony and Microsoft leading the charge, though I'd put Sony at having a slightly better chance at survival in the market. For all the shit Nintendo was getting for the Wii-U being only slightly above the PS3 in hardware, at least they are still focused solely on playing games and not just giving you some weird mash-up of content-providing systems implemented in ways nobody gives a shit about.
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Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #129 on: May 24, 2013, 08:02:55 AM »
Tech-specs wise, I am very glad that consoles are looking to move more toward a "mini pc" style for power and better dev environments.. but I could definitely do without the all-in-one entertainment stuff being a major focus.. Gaming should always be the selling point and the center point of these devices, IMO.
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Offline KingPK

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #130 on: May 24, 2013, 08:09:22 AM »
MS has six months to get their collective shit together and A) fix this PR nightmare they've created and B) not shoot themselves in the foot a few more times.  I just replaced my 360 a few months ago so I won't be in the market for a new console until probably the first price drop, so by then I should have a clear idea which is for me.

Offline AnonymousBroccoli

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #131 on: May 24, 2013, 08:26:37 AM »
Which means that Gamestop et al are going to offer even less in compensation to try and maintain their profit margins. If that becomes widely known, the knowledge that XBONE versions of multi-console games possess less resell value than PS4 versions might be something people take into consideration when choosing a console or merely which version of a game they buy.

In addition to not agreeing with its ideology, one of the reasons I don't buy games with online passes is that that package is inherently worth less, if $10 worth of it can only be used once. As someone who generally does not buy games to keep them, that's a bad investment.

Offline KingPK

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #132 on: May 24, 2013, 11:48:44 AM »
Quote
Citing "sources familiar with the system," Polygon reports that the Xbox One will not require a fee to play used games. Instead, the console will perform regular online checks to verify disc authenticity and ownership.


Polygon's sources note that used game sales will continue, as Xbox One game ownership is determined by an on-disc encryption code. Once a game has been sold, traded, or otherwise activated by another console, access to the previous owner's installed content is revoked and transferred to its new owner

That makes more sense.  Why they couldn't just fucking SAY that I don't know.

Offline Sabre

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #133 on: May 24, 2013, 04:09:11 PM »
Aaah so if you decide to trade in say COD rehash 2014, you will probably have to unlink said game from your console and then the new user will "relink" via the same code when he buys it.

But what happens if person A doesnt unlink their activation code?  Does the disk need to be used to play games from the Hard Drive?

Offline Smues

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #134 on: May 24, 2013, 04:33:11 PM »
I assume since they've mentioned get a piece of the pie the sale has to go through their system somehow.
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Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #135 on: May 24, 2013, 05:07:56 PM »
Interesting. This still doesn't clarify the "new user pays full game price to install" shit that Harrison was talking about above.
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Offline Sabre

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #136 on: May 25, 2013, 05:08:43 AM »
Probably the case if they dont have the activation code.

Basically this is not to stop the 2nd hand games market.  Its to stop piracy, as the 360 was one of the easiest to pirate.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #137 on: May 25, 2013, 01:16:58 PM »
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline Captain of Outer Space

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #138 on: May 26, 2013, 12:28:20 PM »

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #139 on: May 27, 2013, 11:39:16 AM »

Offline Nymyzys

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #140 on: May 27, 2013, 11:51:54 AM »

Offline Venkman

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #141 on: May 27, 2013, 07:04:11 PM »
Interesting. This still doesn't clarify the "new user pays full game price to install" shit that Harrison was talking about above.

A Microsoft rep had the following comments:

Quote
You say I'll just lend a copy, for me and a friend'
Then he'll lend one and she'll lend one and where will it end?
One leads to another then ten, then more,
And no one buys anything from the store
So no one gets paid and they can't make more
The posse breaks up and they close the door
Don't share! Don't share that software!

Offline Sabre

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #142 on: May 28, 2013, 03:01:35 PM »
This is pure dejavu over the original cd argument.

Offline Smues

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #143 on: May 28, 2013, 04:39:53 PM »
You got Venkman'd!

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Offline Damaramu

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #144 on: May 29, 2013, 12:24:30 AM »
This is pure dejavu over the original cd argument.

People didn't like the switch from cartridges to CDs?
I watched RAW. I thought it sucked. The usual problems and such.

Offline Sabre

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #145 on: May 29, 2013, 03:28:08 AM »
Should clarify, Microsoft stating that its time to stop people sharing games is the same arguement the MPAA tried to enforce with music CDs, as tecnically you are breaking copyright.  Hell they even tried to enforce ripping CDs to MP3 as you are breaking some crazy law no one will inforce.

Offline no fact, no matter

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #146 on: May 29, 2013, 07:47:28 AM »
You should probably put your bandit hat on now.

Offline Thoth

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #147 on: June 05, 2013, 08:54:18 AM »
According to NeoGAF< MS is having problems manufacturing the XBOne, and is likely going to have to lower the clock speed of the chips as a result. Sony's February reveal apparently caught them with their pants down, and now they are in trouble.

Offline The ghost of bps21

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2013, 08:57:51 AM »
How can a press conference catch someone off guard?  They didn't know they were releasing their own console this fall because Sony had a press conference?

Offline oldskool

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Re: Microsoft Prattle v2
« Reply #149 on: June 05, 2013, 10:00:30 AM »
XBOne went with 8GB of DDR3-level RAM under the notion that DDR5 wouldn't increase in size or drop in price enough to be a realistic option (it did). DDR5 is significantly faster than DDR3, and on top of it so far Sony's OS seems to involve 2GB less usage than XBOne's, so that's yet another additional bonus.