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A Boxing History Thread

alkeiper

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There's a full version of this fight but the quality is better here.


Sonny Liston lost four times in his career, three by knockout. Two of those were the Ali fights which were both controversial. One was an eight round split decision early in Liston's career. This is Liston's most definitive loss and even here he was ahead on points. Liston gets underrated because he had the misfortune of running into an all time great heavyweight.
 

alkeiper

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Fight one: Liston quits on his stool. Kind of seen as a dissatisfactory ending to a heavyweight fight. It was unusual for a fighter to lose his title like that. At the very least a good fight was cut short due to injury.

Fight two: the “phantom punch” was legit. The count was a fiasco with Joe Walcott showing he really should not have been in that position. Liston and Ali actually continued fighting.

I don’t think either fight really established a definitive winner, not in a way fans wanted.
 

King Kamala

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The Sonny Liston-Leotis Martin fight is probably the (non local) fight that my dad brings up the most.

My dad has an autograph from Sonny Liston, which is fairly rare since he was an illiterate. My grandfather was at a postal convention in Poland Springs at the same week that Ali-Liston II was happening and Sonny was also staying at the hotel. He always said that he'd sell that or his Nolan Ryan rookie card if he needed help paying our student loans. Now that I'm graduated and paying my own loans, I guess I can just hope that I inherit one of them and the apocalypse doesn't happen before the sports memorabilia doesn't dive into a cliff.
 

alkeiper

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I just watched The Harder They Fall, a 1956 film that happened to be Humphrey Bogart's last. The film tells the story of Toro Moreno, a fighter the mob fixes all the way to a shot at the heavyweight championship where he is clobbered by Buddy Brennan (Max Baer in a real stretch of casting). Moreno's story parallels the career of Primo Carnera, who won a few fixed fights on his way to actually winning the world heavyweight championship.

I was always under the impression that Baer utterly outclassed Carnera. Ten knockdowns seems to indicate an utter slaughter. There is actually some disagreement about how many times Carnera went down which seems implausible. Spurred by the accounts and the film, I watched the fight for myself.


Random pre-fight observation: that's the worst ring announcer I've ever seen for a major fight. "Quiet please!" Nothing like hyping up your crowd.

Baer catches Carnera in the first round. Then you see kind of the rules you would see in an early Dempsey fight. Carnera gets driven into the ropes and rather than a count and a standing eight it's right back to fighting. Ditto in round two. Carnera could have been ruled down twice (saved by the ropes) before he takes a knee but it's all one sequence. Round two has two sloppy knockdowns with Baer going down after Carnera. But as soon as Carnera is up the fighting continues.

I think the film is sped up which makes it harder to judge as well. Besides skipping rounds I timed one round at about two minutes, so there's a little editorial trickery to make the action seem more exciting. What is apparent though is Carnera finds his footing and did take at least three rounds unofficially. Then Baer scores more knockdowns in the tenth and eleventh before the referee actually stops it with Carnera still able to get to his feet. Probably a good stoppage but an unusual one for a heavyweight title fight in that era.
 

alkeiper

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Carlos Zarate: WBC World Bantamweight champion. 45-0. 44 KO's
Alfonso Zamora: WBA World Bantamweight champion. 29-0. 29 KO's.
But it's non-title. Ten rounds

 

alkeiper

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Lamar Clark was mentioned recently on a podcast. Clark had an amazing record. At one point he held a record of 42-0, 41 knockouts. Then you look at his opponents. His opponents' combined records for those fights was 15-45-1. Twenty seven opponents making their pro debuts. His only fight against a winning opponent was a knockout victory over Tony Burton (10-2, 2 KOs) who later became famous as Apollo Creed's on-screen trainer. Clark's victims included some familiar names such as Ox Anderson, Tony Borne and Ferrin "Sandy" Barr.

Clark finally lost by KO to a Dominican fighter, Bartolo Soni. Clark lost his next fight to Pete Radamacher (the Olympian who fought Floyd Patterson), knocked out another tomato can and got a fight against rising Cassius Clay in Louisville. Clay KO'd Clark in two rounds.
 

King Kamala

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Pete Radamacher challenged for the World Heavyweight Title in his first professional fight.

Ultimaterly though, he probably had a marginally more successful career than the other Olympic gold medalist who challenged for the World Title too soon (but actually won) Leon Spinks. Although Pete Radamacher never made a cameo in FMW.
 

alkeiper

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Beating Ali trumps anything Pete Rademacher did. And in a tangible sense, the rematch drew 60,000 people and earned Spinks $3.75 million. Rademacher's best win was probably a decision over a young George Chuvalo. I don't think Rademacher was ever a serious contender after the Patterson fight.
 

King Kamala

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Rademacher lived to 91 so he has that over Neon Leon too.

Neon Leon though was the only person to ever beat Ali for the World Title.
 

King Kamala

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I'll pop if Evander Holyfield starts complaining nonstop about that big clumsy oaf Nikolai Valuev ending his career.
 

alkeiper

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Almost twenty years ago Mike Tyson lost to Danny Williams. I was curious where Williams' career went from there. Williams got knocked out by Vitali Klitschko in his next fight. He remained relevant beating then-prospect Audley Harrison. He later lost a rematch by knockout and became a journeyman opponent. Somehow he's still fighting, at least as late as last August. He was 31-3 when he fought Tyson. He's now 55-33. Looking at recent news I saw whispers of a Tyson/Williams rematch last year, and anger that he's still allowed to fight at all.
 

alkeiper

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if you watch a fight pre-1936 you may hear a gentleman named Joe Humphreys doing the ring introduction. He has a a microphone here but for most of his career he refused to use one. Projected his voice through stadium crowds.
 
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