Best Sega System Besides Genesis/Mega Drive

[ChrisMWaters]

Just was watching a video going over the history of the Dreamcast, and I just wanted to get people's view on things about it.

I didn't include the Nomad because I don't think that there were any original titles for the Nomad...just the Genesis ones.

 

[Youth N Asia]

I grew up on the Master System, so I play favorites. Wonderboy in Monsterland is my favorite game ever and could pass for an SNES title

 

[Kageho]

Dreamcast. It has quite a few awesome games I remember always bugging my friends so that I could play.

 

[Psycho Penguin]

Dreamcast, I can't believe this can even be a discussion.

 

[AndrewTS]

This is hardly even a question, except maybe to the handful of diehard Master System junkies. Dreamcast was one of the best video game systems of all time--even if the controller is so awful it can make your hands bleed.

Honestly, I think it gives the Genesis a fair run for its money, too. It has the Genesis beat in regards to depth and quality of fighting games, the 2K sports games were getting pretty good in their time, and while the Dreamcast was lacking a *real* Phantasy Star game, it got several other RPGs that were damn good in their own right.

Plus it basically destroys the Genesis utterly in regards to shmups. It still gets a shooter released on it now and then, years after the system ceased production.

 

[Jaxxxson Mayhem]

Saturn. Sega fucking Saturn.

 

[AndrewTS]

The Saturn is damn good, too (certainly after Dreamcast, IMO), but it's a shame that the 3D capabilities of it were so poor. Any time there was a multi-console release, it seemed like getting the Saturn version was getting a second-rate knockoff, and sometimes Saturn owners would be lucky just to get a version of a game a year late.

Where the Saturn excelled, in spades, was 2D games. There's a bunch of great 2D games on Saturn I enjoy playing today: the Capcom fighters (especially the vs. games), Guardian Heroes (one of the best 2D beat 'em ups ever), Rayman, Shinobi Legions, and Keio Yuugekitai Katsugekihen. There's even some excellent 3D titles, too--NiGHTs, Die Hard Arcade/Dynamite Deka, the Panzer Dragoon games, and Vipers/Megamix. Still, I don't think it has quite the depth of the Dreamcast library.

However, I've never had the chance to actually play Panzer Dragoon Saga. I'm sure a Japanese fluent user's perspective would be quite different, since they got a bunch of RPGs we never did, plus some titles that were a bitch to try to play unless you had a Japanese system, like Princess Crown. I own a copy of Slayers Royale and I can't freakin' read it!

 

[Psycho Penguin]

The problem with the Saturn is a lot of the good games were import-only, plus the Saturn versions of PS1 games were kinda half assed compared to the PS1 versions.

 

[AndrewTS]

The problem with the Saturn is a lot of the good games were import-only, plus the Saturn versions of PS1 games were kinda half assed compared to the PS1 versions.

Yeah, I said that.

Like I said, the Saturn excelled at 2D, but 2D was something that considered almost downright unpalatable to much of the gaming community at large at the time, or at least the gaming media acted like it. Open up one of the many awful gaming magazines from the mid to late 90s, and you'd be prone to see either a goofy cartoon avatar of an editor with spikey hair or with a sword or some shit doing something EXTREEEEME, or maybe one of the shaved apes who worked for Game Players who had more TUDE than a platforming mascot talking about how 2D graphics are like, totally bogus.

Case in point: this tool's review of Yoshi's Island.

Honestly, almost 3/4 of my Saturn library is import games.

However, there is a fair point to make that by the time some of the best titles came out for the Saturn, 2D or 3D, Sega had already screwed up too much in North America. Sega's surprise launch with jack-shit numbers of games and a hundred dollar higher price, along with past failures, guaranteed Sony BUTT****ing them in the West; without lube.

 

[Ripper]

The Same can be said of Dreamcast and its imports. You throw imports into the mix and the Dreamcast is my best ever(unless you bring modding into the discussion in which the XBOX 1 is easily the greatest game console of all time)

 

[Psycho Penguin]

The Same can be said of Dreamcast and its imports. You throw imports into the mix and the Dreamcast is my best ever(unless you bring modding into the discussion in which the XBOX 1 is easily the greatest game console of all time)

Except the Dreamcast's domestic library was far stronger than the Saturn's. You can make a case that the top 5 Saturn games were all imports.

Plus, Dreamcast had the best launch ever.

 

[AndrewTS]

I honestly didn't do much with imports on the Dreamcast. I imported...some Giant Gram game for the DC but honestly I didn't get into it and sold it later. It didn't grab me like the AKI games did. However, I did also get the Dreamcast Fire Pro game. Still, the Saturn had Six Men Scramble, my first Fire Pro ever, so it's a bit of a sentimental favorite.

Beyond that, there wasn't much. There was Puyo Puyo 4 and Ikaruga/Border Down which I ended up getting a bootleg of after the DC had been discontinued, and that's it, I believe.

Granted, I wasn't as driven to import with the Dreamcast since I found the domestic library much more satisfying. What other DC import titles are great (and hold up)?

EDIT: oh, come to think of it, I imported a PAL Shenmue 2...which failed to capture my interest, just like the first had. Ultimately I sold it. Your mileage may vary.

It's too bad Sega apparently dropped the ball with Fighting Vipers 2 (it sucked, apparently, and it was kept from the U.S.). They did have Virtual On: Oratorio Tengram on DC as well, although it was of course a highly compromised port, control-wise. However, provided you're using a custom controller/stick/a non-crap controller, the DC had one of the best fighting game lineups for any system:

Soul Calibur
Power Stone 1 and 2
MvC2
Capcom vs. SNK 2
Darkstalkers Chronicle (import)
Last Blade 2
Garou: Mark of the Wolves
Project Justice
DoA2
Street Fighter 3 Third Strike (+ Double Impact)
Street Fighter Alpha 3 (okay, kind of a crap port, but still playable)
Virtual On: OT
Guilty Gear X (import only, I think)
King of Fighters 98
King of Fighters 99
King of Fighters 2002 (import)
Tech Romancer
Virtua Fighter 3
Super Street Fighter X For Matching Service (import)

The only thing that comes close is current gen systems that have compilations, download versions of the games, and sequels available. Granted, not all of the above are exactly tournament material, but still were strong/fun titles in their own right.

Something I can't quite wrap my head around with the Dreamcast, though, especially with all of the progressive moves Sega made with it, was why the hell they only had one analog stick on it. The Playstation 1 had already had the Dual Shock out. It was becoming increasingly obvious that having two analogs would often be important for proper camera and movement control, yet they never capitalized on that. Granted, bitching about the Dreamcast controllers could be a whole thread in and of itself.

 

[Rendclaw]

And yet, as far as they went with the Dreamcast, they did not go far enough. Sega had a bad rep of not fully supporting their systems by the time the Dreamcast came out, which is why they folded up after the PS2 hit the market. They felt (maybe rightly so) they couldn;t compete with the juggernaut that the PS2 had become.

I won;t deny they had some beautiful games on the Dreamcast, but there are too many strikes against it. I liked the Saturn (even if I cannot get the fucking thing to run right in emu), and I thought that if they had stuck with it, it might have given the PS1 a better run for its money.

 

[AndrewTS]

And yet, as far as they went with the Dreamcast, they did not go far enough. Sega had a bad rep of not fully supporting their systems by the time the Dreamcast came out, which is why they folded up after the PS2 hit the market. They felt (maybe rightly so) they couldn;t compete with the juggernaut that the PS2 had become.

That's somewhat true, but I don't feel that's entirely accurate. The Dreamcast had a very successful launch, and was doing well for a while. IMO, The beginning of the end for the Dreamcast was the infamous PS2 tech demos. Not a PS2 game, not a proof-of-concept, but tech demos; Sony's smoke and mirrors. Third parties began to jump ship like rats before the PS2 even came out, even though its early games were kind of shit. Tekken aside.

I think the Dreamcast could have had a strong North American presence for a while, but since ultimately Sega is a Japanese-run company, SoA had their legs cut out from under them with the Dreamcast really badly. An interview with Bernie Stoler on the matter:

http://bitmob.com/index.php/mobfeed/qaa-former-sega-president-on-dreamcasts-failure-pranks-against-sony-his-ouster.html

Also, I think that the DVD media is often a vastly understated point; I recall that it was very popular with developers, and at the time the cracks in the DC's protection were starting to show (of course later became canyons).

I won;t deny they had some beautiful games on the Dreamcast, but there are too many strikes against it. I liked the Saturn (even if I cannot get the fucking thing to run right in emu), and I thought that if they had stuck with it, it might have given the PS1 a better run for its money.

Maybe in Japan, but when the Saturn came out in North America...as Kenshiro may say, it was already dead. Sega was fucked from day one.

 

[Smues]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Sega asked retailers to take a loss on the Saturn themselves?

 

[Smues]

Case in point: this tool's review of Yoshi's Island.

I can understand why a lot of people didn't like Yoshi's Island, but I can't image how this guy can bash the graphics and sound, the two things that most people pretty much universally agreed were awesome with the game even if you didn't like the game play.

 

[Jaxxxson Mayhem]

By the way... I still have a Saturn and was playing Daytona USA (one of the fucking greatest games ever) a couple days ago.

 

[AndrewTS]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Sega asked retailers to take a loss on the Saturn themselves?

Not sure.

I wouldn't doubt it, as I'm aware Sega pissed retailers off with the Saturn launch big time, for many reasons. It's unfortunately somewhat difficult to get a lot of concrete details on the stealth launch of the Saturn, however. Even so, I'm sure the ill-planned stealth launch, combined with the Playstation 1's "$299" announcement the same day, signed the Saturn's death warrant in N.A.

Asking customers to pay 100 dollars more for a system with hideous 3D capabilities, hideous launch games, almost no games in the launch window, and from a company that was as damaged goods as Sega of America was post-32X was a tall order. It's why I wanted to smack Sony so hard when they launched the PS3 at such a high price; they completely lost touch with what had put them on the top in the first place.

 

[Youth N Asia]

I'm a diehard Dreamcaster as well. Jet Grind Radio, Giant Gram 2k, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi, Marvel vs Capcom, Arcadia... Too many great games. I'd often stay up till 6am playing Phantasy Star online. The free online service was great for the DC owners.

 

[Smues]

It's why I wanted to smack Sony so hard when they launched the PS3 at such a high price; they completely lost touch with what had put them on the top in the first place.

Yeah, FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS doesn't quite have the same ring to it as $299. Especially when $299 put them a hundred under the competition, and FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS put them like two hundred above it.

 

[AndrewTS]

It's why I wanted to smack Sony so hard when they launched the PS3 at such a high price; they completely lost touch with what had put them on the top in the first place.

Yeah, FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS doesn't quite have the same ring to it as $299. Especially when $299 put them a hundred under the competition, and FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS put them like two hundred above it.

Yeah, Sony hit the sweet spot with quality and value on the PS1. With the PS2, the system's launch games were pretty underwhelming, but their biggest competition was the ailing Dreamcast, and Sony's mad hype made it easy to overcome that. Plus the PS2 had the DVD player on board, which was a big selling point when it launched, seriously. They had a solid year before Microsoft and Nintendo's consoles, too.

PS3 was, to turn a phrase, a year late and couple hundred dollars too much. The PS3 is still, technically a great value, but one that Sony wasn't prepared to offer at a reasonable cost.

Sad thing about the Dreamcast, is it was a damn powerful system, too. It may have ultimately come up short in terms of storage space on disc, but it could have lasted several years longer had the support been there. The gap in power between a Dreamcast and a PS2 is leagues smaller than Wii and 360/PS3.

Speaking of which, it's not like Sega hasn't dabbled with motion controls before. Honestly, they were pretty close to it with the fishing controller. However, after something like the Activator's failure, they undoubtedly were pretty shy about it.

 

[Sabre]

The dreamcast should win this, as it was the console that should have succeeded but came out far too early in the next gen race.

 

[Youth N Asia]

I know the DC is the best system, but I gotta vote master. I got one in 1987 and have loved it ever since

 

[luke-o]

Dreamcast all the way.

I liked the Saturn and the Master System is very solid, but the Dreamcast has a special place in my heart.

 

[ChrisMWaters]

Hmm, thought this wouldn't have been as much of a landslide.

Perhaps I should do a new poll: better Sega System: Genesis/Mega Drive or Dreamcast.