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IT'S ALIVE!(?): ROH in 2022 Thread

alkeiper

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Obviously I don't know what went on backstage exactly. But from what I read Gresham didn't physically assault anyone, didn't walk out and did a clean job. Having words with Tony Khan may cost him opportunities with Tony Khan. But that's a problem between those two.
 

RedJed

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Its too bad how things went down, as Gresham would have been a great mainstay to the ROH brand to continue on, whatever the case. He really has always showcased kinda what the brand is all about it terms of technical wrestling and sportsmanship from how his character was booked for years. I think this is why all of this took me so aback in a way, as he doesn't come off at face value like a guy who would have a big ego and also turned heel with no buildup, put in a faction with a bunch of other HUGE dudes without the same gimmick or background was super strange.

On a side note, it was curious that Nana did not come out with Gresham in the entrance.....there had to be some issues backstage with that. Nana then came out a few minutes after the match started up. Weird.
 

King of Summer Kamala

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Idk if it's to do with him leaving wrestling at the end of the month or him being bothered on Twitter but Gresham deleted the account for his indie promotion.


Obviously him flipping out at Tony Khan and going out there in blatant “pin me, pay me” mode is not cool but I don’t think he should be blackballed from wrestling over it.
 

RedJed

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Did that Terminus show last week successfully happen? Its weird to delete the promotional vehicle for a company and show that people could still conceivably check out after the fact. He seems fully clocked out at this point.

Yeah, I don't think he should be blackballed either, but I hope he kinda comes to his senses a bit and realizes this situation isnt an end all, be all to his future in wherever he may go. I think Impact would probably still take him since they had a relationship prior established. Unless he rubbed them the wrong way too on the way out....who knows....
 

King of Summer Kamala

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Did that Terminus show last week successfully happen? Its weird to delete the promotional vehicle for a company and show that people could still conceivably check out after the fact.
Yeah. The Terminus show happened and it had same mixed to positive reputation that the first few shows had. I heard Gresham Vs Konosuke Takeshita is worth checking out.
 

King of Summer Kamala

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According to several sources, Gresham was very upset when told the planned outcome of his match, which saw him lose the ROH title to Claudio Castagnoli in under 11 minutes in the opening bout of the PPV. As originally reported by Fightful.com, Gresham had words with AEW & ROH owner Tony Khan, which one person described to PWInsider.com as "ugly and unprofessional."

One version of the story making the rounds is that Gresham "cursed out" Khan. Another story talents are sharing includes that Gresham used his ranking in the Pro Wrestling Illustrated magazine PWI 500 list as an argument as to why he should be presented better.

 

Super Leather

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One version of the story making the rounds is that Gresham "cursed out" Khan. Another story talents are sharing includes that Gresham used his ranking in the Pro Wrestling Illustrated magazine PWI 500 list as an argument as to why he should be presented better.
Apparently this version has since been debunked by "more reputable sources." Too bad. I got a good laugh out of such a display of markdom in 2022.

I want it to be true though.
 

Epic for the Summer

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There definatley has been at least one wrestler who used their PWI ranking to persuade a promoter to give them a better spot.
 

Laz

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There's been a few. It made sense pre-internet, really, because that was one way to measure popularity, and being a top 30 worker of the PWI 500 was an easy statistic to use when making indie/outlaw bookings.
 

King of Summer Kamala

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There's been a few. It made sense pre-internet, really, because that was one way to measure popularity, and being a top 30 worker of the PWI 500 was an easy statistic to use when making indie/outlaw bookings.
DID any indie workers make the Top 30 in the pre-internet era? I don't think PWI really got into the Indies beyond a few cursory articles before the '00s.
 

alkeiper

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Two years ago PWI started making a conscious effort to promote more Indy workers in the 500. I respect the hell out of them but mixing in Gresham, Trish Adora, Tony Deppen, etc. along with Kevin Owens, Matt Riddle, Seth Rollins is just silliness.

Looking at some ‘90s lists. Sabu made it to 56 in 1993 before ECW really became a thing. Brian Christopher at 30 one year because Memphis. Reckless Youth got as high as 50. They had some favorites who would sneak up the list.
 

King of Summer Kamala

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Two years ago PWI started making a conscious effort to promote more Indy workers in the 500. I respect the hell out of them but mixing in Gresham, Trish Adora, Tony Deppen, etc. along with Kevin Owens, Matt Riddle, Seth Rollins is just silliness.
Is it though? I always look at it like how sometimes some weird indie albums make Album of the Year lists alongside Kendrick Lamar and Taylor Swift level artists or how arthouse movies make critics' Film of the Year list.
 

King of Summer Kamala

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Does venue and ratings size always matter in kayfabe? Idk if it always does. I feel like PWI has always taken workmate into consideration on their lists. Hence why, JCP/WCW usually beat WWF in their year end lists.
 

Big Beard Booty Daddy

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Yeah, the list is in kayfabe, but it also did take talent and workrate into consideration. They almost had to in order to have 500 people on the list. If one of the main criteria was quality of opponent, not everyone could face the "top" of the mountain talent, so they had to have other things to rate. They use: win–loss record, championships won, quality of competition, major feuds, prominence within a wrestler's promotion(s), and overall wrestling ability.
 

Laz

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The way I always heard it was that the PWI 500 weighed kayfabe things like wins/losses (push) against talent level and level of exposure. JCP usually beat out the WWF not just based on overall quality of ring work, but also because JCP would let the Apter photographers come to the shows whereas Vince wanted all pictures from ringside to be the property of the WWF.

So yes, the position in the PWI 500 did kinda matter, but less than how much good press the dirt sheets would give you, which was less than how well-respected by the locker room you were, which was considerably less than how much money you could make a promoter.
 

King of Summer Kamala

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There was probably a sweet spot when they were marginally important for bookings in the '90s and very early '00s. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence of wrestlers (besides Gresham) getting pissy over their rankings.

There was one story of Chris Candido angrily confronting a PWI writer for being ranked too low.

Undersized, extremely talented wrestler who headlines dying promotions with an outspoken, divisive wife that often overshadows him? Hmmm. History repeats itself, I suppose.
 
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