IT'S THE SURVIIIIVOORRRR SERRRIEEEES (Rewatch Thread)

[King Kamala]

Well, we're moving into late October so that means (to me) it's time to discuss rewatching classic Survivalor Series.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449751646045708288

Discuss WWE (JR voice: WWF at the time)'s All Star game over the years ITT.

 

[snuffbox]

There were a lot of struggles with names back then. A few months later, Mean Gene spent most of January hyping up the first "Rumble Royal." And it was always THE Summerslam to Bret Hart.

 

[King Kamala]

In last SummerSlam rewatch thread we discussed when show lost its luster and I feel like Survivor Series was first major show to lose its luster. Unless we count KOTR which lost its luster on its 3rd PPV but I don't really count it. '96 is the last huge, traditional-ish Survivor Series show. Awesome MSG crowd, World Title change, first Bret-Austin match, Rock debuting.

Survivor Series kind of stopped being important in the middle of the Attitude Era. '97, um notable ending aside, could have been an IYH card. '98 was huge at the time and I feel like is THE show I would show if someone (presumably an insane person) asked me to show them what a Vince Russo booked wrestling show looked like. '99 is one of those "It seemed important at the time" shows that was forgotten six months later, '00 again basically like any other PPV, '01: See '99.

Then I think weirdly, Survivor Series felt more important in Ruthless Aggression era than Attitude era. '02 was best one since '96. '03 is a fun show, dumb McMahons stuff aside. I've seen '04 once 10ish years ago but honestly, couldn't tell you a thing about it if you gave me $10 to recollect the show. '05 and '06 are fun. Then after that, we're getting into more Survivor Series I barely remember/definitely vibes of secondary shows.

 

[King Kamala]

'06 is fun might be a nostalgia based opinion since that was the year I got back into wrestling again. Whatever. It's worth a watch for Triple H latching on an indie wrestling star to seem hip and relevant.

"THAT'S RIGHT! CM PUNK IS TEAM DX!"

 

[Brocklock]

One of the only things I've liked that WWE has done in recent years is that they did kind of build this show back up a little. It's still not what it was, but the brand vs brand stuff and dream matches like Brock vs Bryan and AJ gave it so much more prestige than those late 00's/early 10's shows. 2018 in particular was the best Survivor Series in a while.

 

[King Kamala]

I agree. I think this past five year stretch has probably been best five year stretch of SurSer since the '90s. They've done a really job of rebuilding and reminding people that it's the WWE equivalent of the All Star Games.

I've read some criticisms of the traditional Survivor Series format actually recently that said it's too exhibition-y and has not that much storyline development but I kind of like that it never presented itself like WrestleMania or the Royal Rumble. I'll take a show that's transparently cool exhibitions that are meant to create exposition for the bigger shows (that's some fun wordplay) rather than a show that's pretending to be important that's obviously not and will be forgotten four months later (IE most modern WWE PPVs)

 

[Valeyard]

I've had no compulsion to watch any show after maybe 2003 in full, and even 2002-2003 is kind of a hard sell sometimes. The show went from having just a feel to being a few really good a la carte matches on a lame show. Them just not booking it consistently after Montreal hurt everything. More series that needs surviving and less just stuff with one or two super long ones.

I still love the first one most and it's as close to a perfect card as the WWF could produce.

 

[Epic Springs]

My favorite SS are the ones that are heavy on the elimination matches. I'm surprised they haven't tried something like the wild card match from '95 again but I suppose the brand wars sort of count since they're full of teams with various face/heel alignments. I miss the random pairings with team captains and names (Bad Guys, Guts N Glory, the Teamsters).

An overlooked show is '06. Really fun elimination matches all around. The Legends one is surprisingly good!

 

[Hawk 34]

Series ‘90 is the absolute middle point of my nostalgic appreciation. The show is severely flawed but for me, it’s the perfect Series show. All the gimmicks in full glory, Piper coked out of his gourd, historic moments, great interactions you didn’t see often. Supremely rewatchable.

 

[JHawk]

I doubt I'll watch any of the pre-2000 shows this year just because my schedule is out of whack this year.

I'm partial to 2004 because I was there but Taker-Heidenreich is garbage and Booker should have beaten JBL IMO.

Love the 87 and 88 editions, 87 because of heavy nostalgia and 88 because they fired/lost so many guys the six weeks before it that some of the teams are a hodgepodge of people who shouldn't have gotten a PPV run.

Love love love 95 and I don't know why the wild card match gets so much ridicule among some people.

 

[King Kamala]

An overlooked show is '06. Really fun elimination matches all around. The Legends one is surprisingly good!

It’s weird that they had the Spirit Squad work with so many top guys and legends if they were going to completely discard 60% of the stable, take years to do anything with Dolph, then seem like they were going to push Kenny before discarding him a few months later.

 

[snuffbox]

Sting and Flair get a lot of deserved respect for their Clash 1 match. But, imo, the 20 man elimination tag at 1988 checks off every box that the first Clash match did expect one. It didn't make a main eventer. But, otherwise, it's a near one hour match that never lets the foot off the gas. Still good.

The year before, even with the mostly immobile guys like Andre, the '87 main event is as good a tag team match as it gets.

 

[Valeyard]

I'll stand by Andre, busted as he was, being one of the smartest workers ever. He was totally aware of his limitations and was always changing to work around them. Not saying he was GOOD at that point but he was smart.

Bad News Brown is a Survivor Series MVP.

 

[snuffbox]

Agree. It's too bad they couldn't put Andre over at the 1990 Series. Add another match or put him in Tito's spot and close the show out with Andre, Hogan and Warrior celebrating after the grand finale.

 

[Hawk 34]

The idea of sarge and Andre having any interaction at all in that point in time makes me upset that it didn’t happen.

 

[Valeyard]

I'd have been all about Andre in Volkoff's spot and he and Tito surviving to the end. Get counted out or something immediately in Ultimate Survivor because he wanted to murder Virgil. It would've been kinda cool to have him and Hogan bury the hatchet for kid me.

1991 gets a lot of shit but it feels like such a transitional show. Taker beating Hogan, Flair going over the midcard, start of the Rockers breakup (and a pretty good match that's totally a showcase for Shawn), the build for Savage/Jake even if just for Tuesday In Texas. It felt like a shift was happening.

 

[King Kamala]

September 1991 to March 1992 felt like a changing of the guards that didn't really quite take. I wish they'd kept some of that edginess instead of veering into super cartoony BS after WrestleMania VIII but most of the players from that era left so I guess they weren't confident they could maintain a new creative direction while building a new set of stars.

 

[alkeiper]

I'll stand by Andre, busted as he was, being one of the smartest workers ever. He was totally aware of his limitations and was always changing to work around them. Not saying he was GOOD at that point but he was smart.

Bad News Brown is a Survivor Series MVP.

Andre at the '88 Survivor Series is a masterclass in doing the most with the least movement. He's tremendous in that match.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453124512728428551

 

[BruiserBrody]

Turned on SS 88 as background noise while showing off my Chicago Toy haul to my buddies.

- My recall of every PPV result from 1985-IYH 1 is damaged. I couldn't name Warrior's rag tag unit at first as Jim Brunzell and Sam Houston evaded my brain. Props to Brunzell for rockin' his Hi Flyers gear though.
-Warrior is kayfabe smarter than Beefcake as even Warrior realized brawling on the floor was a bad idea and tried to get Beefcake to come back in before the count out.
- Owen kept doing flying high spots after he injured himself on a botched leapfrog with Greg Valentine.
-Valentine apparently had no interest in taking Warrior's finishers to end the match.
- BN Brown cuts a promo backstage after the match about how he walked out on his team. Brown spent half the promo talking to the wrong camera, which made his growling faces somehow much funnier than they should be.
- Smash was smart as when the Rockers/Busters are brawling down the aisle, he applies a rest hold as to not trying to compete with the melee for the fans attention.
- Hopefully we'll check out the last 2 matches in 2 weeks.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I put on Survivor Series 1993 randomly as background noise as I prep for my buddies coming over for the Badgers game.
- I watched this at least once on DVD... I think?....
- They open with Lex Luger in a Cosby sweater introducing his family and doing a forced Happy Holidays intro by a fireplace. Unintentional comedy gold.
- This leads right into....somebody...singing the National anthem to try and play up the USA vs Evil Foreigners spirit. If they named the dude I missed it.
- Poor Rick Martel is still rocking the Model gimmick, which seems out of place as we are on the cusp of 1994. With his look and workrate, I'm surprised he wasn't repackaged.
- Vince and Bobby introduce the show, and Vince teases Gorilla Monsoon attacking Heenan from the Radio WWF booth next to them. Now I just wish we got that duo instead.
- Razor cuts a promo announcing Mr. Perfect is gone, Macho Man is in. For the tiniest of seconds it felt like survey time.
- Savage's outfit is out a whack. His body suit, hat and jacket are all different color schemes. Like some sort of create a wrestler deal on the N64.
- Martel and Razor grapple like Verne Gagne is still booking them. Good solid reversal sequence to start.
- Bomb and Razor square off. Wrath makes Razor look small! On the apron, Nash plots his eventual squashing. Wrestling is weird.
- Bomb also has that late era Verne Gagne stank on him. Plus 1991 WCW stank. That's a lot Wrestlecrap for one MANSTER to handle.
- Martel goofs up on a run in and shit head Harvey Whippleman gets in the ring to give him the business. The heels nearly suffer from a Civil War. Nash calms everyone down by reminding them that booking the heel team of a Razor vs Diesel imploding during a SSeries is a year away.
- Nash tries to murk the Kid to get things back on track for his squad. Savage saves the day and wipes out all the heels by himself as Razor and Marty discuss drugs on the apron.
- Bomb and Nash collide accidentally and Diesel power runs out after a big elbow.
- IRS (yup, AWA alumni) comes in to stop all this exciting action. He and Macho botch a clothesline/oops crossbody spot.
- We are 10 plus mins in and Party Marty is the only guy who hasn't been legally tagged in. Maybe the somas were really good that afternoon?
- Macho prepares to finish IRS off, but Crushhhh appears at ringside to offer a distraction. Savage is eliminated in the ensuing madness.
- Former AWA tag champ Marty finally tags in as he and Martel discuss the night they tag teamed Big Betty in Wauwatosa's 2nd biggest high school in 1986.
- Martel steals IRS' moveset by locking in the abdominal stretch of doom.
- Razor comes in and pins IRS clean to my surprise since they wrestle at the next PPV.
- The odd booking continues as the heels are once again under manned. The faces attack 3 on 2 as the ref loses control. IRS whacks Razor with his briefcase, leading to Razor falling to the floor and being counted out.
- Razor checks his tooth in such a way that the veil of kayfabe is removed and I wonder if he took a potato.
- Bomb hits some good mobile big man stuff as the Kid's size makes him a fine tackling dummy.
- Marty is a house of fire as the cocaine finally kicked in.
- Kid and Marty end things with a hot finish as Kid snags a sudden victory off a cradle on Martel. Bomb then runs in and Marty rolls him up for the flash pin to end his monster performance.

-- Hart Family promo. Ray Combs does the honors and admits he has no idea what the storyline is.
- Bruce is dressed like a secret service agent. Keith looks like he stepped out of 1978. Stu is sucking up to the locals with a "Boston" jacket. Bret has a slight western motif going on. Owen is in his dressy casuals.
- We don't get a clip of Bruce Pritchard's Reo Rogers helping HBK insult Stu and Helen.
- Martha is at ringside with a crying baby. Not the saddest a Hart boy would end up at a Survivor Series.
- The other Hart boys at ringside are also hilariously doofy looking. Calgary never left the 70s.

 

[King Kamala]

They open with Lex Luger in a Cosby sweater introducing his family and doing a forced Happy Holidays intro by a fireplace. Unintentional comedy gold.

This is surprisingly one of my favorite episodes of STWW, which is weird considering it's not a particularly memorable show (although I feel like it gets thrown in the worst SurSer ever category sometimes cause of the era). Bruce produced that segment and it took an absurdly long time to film. Like they had to take a meal break cause Luger was doing such a bad job of acting like a happy everyday family man. Sorry @The Art of Postin' .

 

[BruiserBrody]

- Crowd does not care about the Knights or any non-Bret family member.
- Heenan keeps popping Combs with one liners.
- Greg the Hammer looks fat in the Knight suit.
- Stu rubbing Keith's arm to fix his shoulder being "dislocated" as Heenan rips on him is good stuff.
- Owen submits Valentine to avenge the Hammer hurting him at SSeries 88.
- The heels are behind the whole time in this match as well. Sort of odd booking.
- Bruce thinking he should/would get the Owen push is funny when you see how he came for this shot slightly flabby looking. Owen by comparison is tanned and has visible muscle tone.
- Stu changed his jacket from the pre-match promo to another Boston jacket. Heenan: "Stu has a picture of Helen on the back of his jacket!" Vince: "That's a Bruin, Bobby." I laughed.
- Fans totally buy into Bret's big bump into the rail. Everyone is standing and trying to see.
- Heenan tosses Shawn a water to refresh with while the Harts try to scrape Bret off the cement. That's a fun touch.
- Bruce looks like he concussed himself taking a hard bump in the notoriously stiff WWF ring.
- Keith locks Shawn in an abdominal stretch right in front Monsoon, with his leg wrapped around Shawn's. I would love to know if Gorilla put him over for being the only man in history since Iron Sheik in 1984 to lock the move in properly.
- Vince said 20 some members of the Hart Family at ringside. I wonder if WWF actually paid for all of them to fly in (on their 1993 shoe string budget) or if the Harts wanted to make this PPV a family celebration.
- Helen "cries" a bit over Owen yelling at Bret. See you next year Mom. Big plans ahead.
- Stu lags behind as the Harts leave. He clearly wants to straighten Owen out.
- Rene Goulet helps Stu to the back.
- Owen declines comment from the Toddster.

- SMW time....but also party time over here.....

- Heenan and Monsoon get physical at ringside. Too bad Heenan left before they could blow it off at Wrestlemania.

 

[King Kamala]

Luger was doomed after SummerSlam '93 but I feel this show was the exclamation point. That opening video package is so transparently awkward and phony. Luger's definitely capable of being a top guy, even as a babyface (see 1997 WCW) but he just seemed v. sheepish for some reason during his WWF run.

 

[alfdogg]

The Hart Family match is peak Heenan, right up there with the 92 Rumble match.

 

[JHawk]

Watching 2013 now and I blocked out almost the entire show. This was peak "pretend to care about the women while giving them as little time as possible". A 14 woman elimination match got maybe 15 minutes including entrances and the announcers cared so little they didn't even notice that Nikki Bella was never eliminated.

 

[BruiserBrody]

- The Bodies vs RnR put on the high spot show case, and no one cares....no one....
- Vince and Heenan switched to Radio WWF, so I missed Vince not knowing who the Express were.
- FIle this one under Benoit vs Malenko, Road Wild.

- Matt Bourne makes his final WWF appearance as we see Doink taunting Bigelow on Superstars.
- Booger and the baddies are mauling a turkey during their promo. I laughed.
- Doinks on a Mission and the Doinkwackers wake the crowd up.
- Shaw is fatter than I recall. Yikes.
- Booger has his ass chewed on by Luke. He tea bags him later in revenge.
- The bumbling heels fall in short order.
- A bicycle is introduced into the proceedings. *Krusty the Clown Globetrotters gif*
- The fans are not popping for the wacky spots.
- Bigelow is down 4-1. WHO BOOKED THIS SHOW. All the heels are fighting from underneath.
- The Wackers are old here already and have outlived a good portion of their young co-workers.

 

[King Kamala]

Watching 2013 now and I blocked out almost the entire show.

I was at Survivor Series 2013, IIRC it was the first WWE PPV I ever went to live, and I've STILL blocked out most of the show. @Laz was there too IIRC but luckily TD Garden is large enough that I didn't have to worry about making eye contact with him. Opener was awesome and maybe first moment when people collectively realized "Woah! Roman Reigns could be a massive singles star!"

Main event was only other PPV main event I've been to where a significant portion of the crowd left before or during the match. Like a quarter to third of the arena walked out. That last Big Show main event face push was ASS.

There was a weird dark segment where Vince McMahon strutted out and went nose to nose with Cena that was honestly probably the highlight besides the opener. I think it's probably the only time I've seen Vinnie Mac live? Made it worth sitting through Big Show-Randy Orton, at least.

I went to a WWE PPV at TD Garden where there was an absolutely absurd amount of morbidly obese people sitting in the aisles cause their posteriors were too wide for the seats but that might have been MITB 2014 (which was an actually p. good show) and not this.

 

[Lazgistics Supervisor]

Main event was only other PPV main event I've been to where a significant portion of the crowd left before or during the match. Like a quarter to third of the arena walked out.

I was in that group. After 5 minutes of the main, the three of us just went "nope" and left as Orton was posing in the corner. Finding out when I got home that so much of the crowd did the same at the same time was hilarious.

It wasn't Show that made people leave. It was Orton. Never forget that.

 

[King Kamala]

I actually didn't hate that Orton title run but I'm probably one of the few. It's hard to treat a guy like a pouty ineffectual toady that always needs to bailed out for a long time and expect people to care. Especially when it's against an act as warmed over as Big Show turn #147, who nobody but nobody (except Vince apparently) would reasonably expect to win.