Old School Observations/Questions Thread 2020-21

[BruiserBrody]

I have a hard time picturing Sabu in WWF not getting quickly bounced

Depends on if he shared his stash with Shawn or not.
If he came in during the wrong moment in time, he becomes the Sultan.
He could have pre-dated the Mr. Monday Night Gimmick and instead been a Shotgun exclusive talent in their early few weeks as Vince and Co. howled over how he was too extreme for Monday Nights!!!

The Apter mags loved teasing Sabu was WWF bound in 95/96. He was on the cover of Inside Wrestling or the Wrestler in the Summerslam 95 teaser as one of the possible surprises and the Apter mags released the Royal Rumble 96 rumored list that still floats around today IIRC w/ Warrior, Severn, Sabu etc listed.

 

[King Kamala]

Sabu had soooo many good potential opponents in '95/'96 WWF. It's honestly really not too hard to imagine him inserted in Mick Foley's place in '96.

 

[Laz]

...the idea of Taker/Sabu just had me really, really excited, but there's no way in hell a guy that was even more independently minded (business-wise) than Bruiser Brody would've lasted in the WWF for any longer than he eventually did in that 2006-2007 run.

If Taz gets signed and works as a WWF job guy, then Heyman breaks up the Eliminators and Saturn gets the shooter gimmick. It doesn't get over as well because he didn't have anywhere near the presence or the charisma that Taz did (seriously, those pissed off Brooklyn-as-fuck promos are practically NYHC songs), but it's a little more believable long-term because of the Army background.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Dan Severn spring boarding from the UFC to ECW, with Heyman or whoever as his mouth piece may have worked if he was kept in the short, suplex heavy matches with choke finishes or whatever. Severn probably had too many other gigs IRL (Wrestling/UFC/Catering(?)) to want to work in the bingo hall each month and have his rep sullied by being on the smutty, edgy, gory 3rd tier brand.

I'm guessing he commanded a fair amount of money since his NWA title matches were few and far between, and he seems like the kind of guy SMW could have done a lot with, had Severn wanted to spend all week driving up and down mountains for 70 dollar a night minimums.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I can't see Sabu or Taz lasting long in the WWF at all. Sabu didn't talk so at best, he has a 1995 Hakushi factor going for him and even then, he would have been too ahead of his time. There's no "light heavyweight" division to make him a focal point star in, he can't talk and the managers by 1995/1996 were pretty limited in the WWF, and he doesn't look like a WWF superstar. I think he probably could've made it 6-8 months then bounced by doing something to get himself fired.

Taz would have had no chance. His promos worked in ECW because he could be basically unfiltered. No way WWF lets him do that. He was super short for even the 1995 era and I think if he came in during 1996, at best he probably ends up part of the Nation of Domination in the D-Lo type background role. Best case scenario, Taz makes it as a "Sparkplugg Holly" type low card talent who sticks around for 2 years then leaves. Think your Chris Candidos as Bodydonna Skip type stuff.

People forget that while the matches could've been good... you have to think the WWF style at that time. They may've had guys like Bret and Shawn and Foley in 1996/1997 but #1: Those guys were all legitimately big size-wise. Shawn and Bret were both around 6'0" too IIRC and they were considered "small" in that era, #2: Those guys had crazy charisma and even Bret could cut decent enough promos to build up a match for a PPV, #3: It took Foley 2-3 years to really build himself as a credible WWF Main Eventer and it took doing feuds & angles with Undertaker, Vince, Austin, heel Triple H in late '99/early '00, and The Rock, etc. How many talents would get that many opportunities? And that's with Foley being one of the best mic men of the 1990s.

 

[King Kamala]

Dan Severn spring boarding from the UFC to ECW, with Heyman or whoever as his mouth piece may have worked if he was kept in the short, suplex heavy matches with choke finishes or whatever. Severn probably had too many other gigs IRL (Wrestling/UFC/Catering(?)) to want to work in the bingo hall each month and have his rep sullied by being on the smutty, edgy, gory 3rd tier brand.

I wonder if in this alternate universe with Taz being stuck in a JTTS role in WWF in the mid '90s, does Heyman maybe tone down the smuttiness and gore to try and lure in a legit badass like Dan Severn? Or even Kurt Angle? Although I have a hard time imagining any scenario where Taz lasts three years in '90s WWF. Maybe Kwang lasts a little bit longer if Taz is in the role instead of Savio but it's a weak maybe.

 

[Valeyard]

Taz is a signing they make for way too much money for way too long so they just keep him around to repackage again and again and again. The fact he and Wippleman were the same size kills off anything real for him in 1994-5. I can just see Alex Porteau and Peter Senerchia as a team to rib the Steiners.

I saw once Vince wanted Sabu off and on for years but Sabu gonna Sabu. Unless he got his uncle a job with him, he wouldn't come in. If he did come in, he'd get a solid push but made to talk like he did in WWECW killing the aura. But he'd get Bret and Shawn b-show matches and probably fills Hakushi's roll as the face teaming with Horowitz.

Severn getting the spot they wanted Landel in would've been interesting. It'd give us Bret vs Severn at least.

 

[King Kamala]

If WWF had brought Dan Severn in three years earlier as part of Camp Cornette, it would have rocked and I feel like it'd have better coincided with UFC's initial burst of popularity.

 

[Valeyard]

Peak popularity Severn would at least be a TV main event guy. You just know Bret would want to work him, too. Severn with Taker or Diesel would be the kind of disasters dreams are made of, though.

 

[Epic Springs]

After watching the DSOTR episode on Brian Pillman, I did some research and saw that Pillman was supposed to wrestle Mick Foley (as Dude Love) at the Bad Blood PPV that night with the stipulation that if Foley won, Goldust (who was feuding with Pillman at the time over Terri) would immediately wrestle Pillman in a NO DQ match. What exactly was going to be the conclusion of this feud and were there any future plans for Pillman beyond this point?

Also, this looks to be the last of Dude Love for awhile as Foley is back to being Mankind to fight Kane at the next month's Survivor Series. He becomes Cactus Jack shortly after with the Terry Funk tag team then back to Dude Love for a few months and then Mankind again.

 

[BruiserBrody]

After watching the DSOTR episode on Brian Pillman, I did some research and saw that Pillman was supposed to wrestle Mick Foley (as Dude Love) at the Bad Blood PPV that night with the stipulation that if Foley won, Goldust (who was feuding with Pillman at the time over Terri) would immediately wrestle Pillman in a NO DQ match. What exactly was going to be the conclusion of this feud and were there any future plans for Pillman beyond this point?

Also, this looks to be the last of Dude Love for awhile as Foley is back to being Mankind to fight Kane at the next month's Survivor Series. He becomes Cactus Jack shortly after with the Terry Funk tag team then back to Dude Love for a few months and then Mankind again.

Off the top of my head IIRC Terri was going to turn on Dustin in the end. I don't know if that would have sparked Dustin going heel, and being a nut with Luna anyway.
Maybe we get Pillman/Terri - Luna/Dustin-Sable/Mero in more of a three way feud??

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Bonus tidbit on Mankind facing Kane, on Shotgun right before the PPV. they had Foley face the Sultan. Foley won by pulling up the Sultan's mask and using the mandible claw, proving he could use it on Kane I guess.

 

[Epic Springs]

You think Pillman would have walked out (or threatened to) after Montreal with the rest of the Harts? Was his contract iron clad and would have prevented such a thing?

 

[BruiserBrody]

You think Pillman would have walked out (or threatened to) after Montreal with the rest of the Harts? Was his contract iron clad and would have prevented such a thing?

I think with his ankle and money needs he stays. Especially with his buddy Austin about to rule the roost.

 

[King Kamala]

If I was booking '94 IYHs, I'd have Owen get a quick WWF World Title run at some point. But I guess even during the early IYH era, they hadn't grasped the idea of swapping belts back and forth would add excitement considering Diesel held the title for almost all of '95 and Shawn Michaels held the title for almost all of '96.

Somehow, I doubt even in this scenario, Randy Savage would have gotten multiple main events. WrestleMania X was essentially his in ring farewell, on screen. I'm guessing, realistically though, a Lex Luger & Macho Man Vs Yokozuna & Crush match was fairly likely for a hypothetical February '94 IYH main event.

 

[BruiserBrody]

If I was booking '94 IYHs, I'd have Owen get a quick WWF World Title run at some point. But I guess even during the early IYH era, they hadn't grasped the idea of swapping belts back and forth would add excitement considering Diesel held the title for almost all of '95 and Shawn Michaels held the title for almost all of '96.

Somehow, I doubt even in this scenario, Randy Savage would have gotten multiple main events. WrestleMania X was essentially his in ring farewell, on screen. I'm guessing, realistically though, a Lex Luger & Macho Man Vs Yokozuna & Crush match was fairly likely for a hypothetical February '94 IYH main event.

I think you landed this in the wrong thread. Anyway, I think they'd shy away from the big PPV feuds at the smaller PPVs, which is how I'm trying to structure this. The matches with the Steiners for example are meant to give perceived value and interest w/o wrecking the long term plan.

IRL the house shows had many of the big matches running. I still very much recall how in pre WM 94 they ran Bret/The Kid vs Owen/HBK as the main event in Oshkosh (30ish mins outside of GB, maybe a bit more) but plugged the show in our syndication as getting to see Bret vs Owen before the PPV!
Given the new found problem of having to have a national main event every month, the luxury of having a Macho Man on the bench didn't seem plausible given how thin the roster is overall.

 

[King Kamala]

I think you landed this in the wrong thread.

Back to @HarleyQuinn 's point a few posts back about Sabu & Taz being too small. While I do think they probably were undersized by the powers that be at WWF's standards, I honestly feel like 123 Kid broke the size barrier for fans. And I mean it might have been broken earlier if WWF showcased a wrestler his size before. Fans will always respect talent and skill RE: how big and small they are.

Rey Mysterio Jr is going to get over in any era cause he's so awesome. It's just if you drop him in the USA, 20-25 years ago, he might be towering over Lord Littlebrook and Sky Low Low.

 

[King Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390446143289499648

Segunda Caida: 1992 WWF Boy Scout Troop 3 Fundraiser 1/18/92

segundacaida.blogspot.com

Paging @BruiserBrody

 

[LaParkaYourCar]

Here's my review of ECW November to Remember '97.

https://classicwrestlingreview.com/2021/05/09/november-to-remember-97/

 

[King Kamala]

Why did Jeff Hardy take a year off basically (horribly received ROH appearance aside) after being released from WWE before showing up in TNA? Wikipedia says he spent that period from Summer of '03 and Summer of '04 doing motocross racing lmao.

Was he just aware that he was more burnt than the cheese left at the bottom of my oven? Did even '03 TNA not even want him?

I was only casually following in the mid '00s so it seemed like "Oh Jeff Hardy's going to waltz into TNA and become NWA World Champion" He just kind of seemed to languish in the mid card there outside of a few failed World Title shots at Jeff Jarrett. They didn't have him interact with Christian or Team 3D which seemed like a given.

 

[Epic Springs]

Jeff was facing A LOT of demons at the time so maybe he took some time to (sort of) clean up?

 

[King Kamala]

I'm not intimately familiar with extreme sports but it doesn't seem like the 2003 motocross industry would be that much more sobriety minded than the 2003 rasslin industry but Idk!

 

[BruiserBrody]

Catching up on last week's WWE treasures show w/Booker T and Steffi saying something like "We capitalized on the WCW Invasion as best we could" got an "Oh Really" emoji from me.

Fun that Booker T "retired" in 2007. TNA must have been Black Snow the entire time.

 

[King Kamala]

At risk of being called of a WWE Cuck, I KIND of get what they're saying. Every major WCW star (besides Booker T and DDP) were happy to sit on their couches and collect that sweet Time Warner cash. If The McMahons paid out of their butts to get Hogan, NASH, Goldberg, etc off the couch, I think the IWC still would have found a way to whine.

Not saying the InVasion angle wasn't garbage. It's easy to look back on it and say "Oh! How did they miss a lay up of a massive money making angle? There's so many ways you could do it." When you look at the egos involved on both WWF & WCW's side plus the contract logistics, it's very, very easy to see that InVasion angle was doomed to fail IMO.

 

[Epic Springs]

Found Bruce Prichard's CXF account.

 

[King Kamala]

Well you know.

 

[Valeyard]

Buying out Goldberg, Nash, Hogan, Flair, and Sting would have been worth it. They'd get their money back by Summerslam. Anyone who hated it would still buy it. Backstage would be a nightmare but the stories would be awesome. The gap between top guys and the midcard would be gigantic but if a brand split happens one way or another it would ease that.

 

[BruiserBrody]

More fun from the episode: They put over Booker T winning the TV title in 1998 (97?-whenever Martel was in exactly) as a milestone for black men in the biz, then 15 mins or so later they show DOOM w/a black manager Playa, holding the World tag belts in 1990.

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I wonder if the title belt hunt on this show will be a backdoor method of getting Conrad Thompson into the WWE machine.

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HHH being the talking head about wrestling race relations is....interesting.... should have gotten the Hulkster.

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They play up the JYD wearing the collar and chain being a part of his "dog" gimmick, but I think at least part of it was repping his ancestors who were forced into chains.
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Bix thinks this show is designed to make collectors lower their prices. I mostly scream "WHAT!" at the amounts they suggest this stuff is valued at.

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[King Kamala]

Buying out Goldberg, Nash, Hogan, Flair, and Sting would have been worth it. They'd get their money back by Summerslam. Anyone who hated it would still buy it. Backstage would be a nightmare but the stories would be awesome. The gap between top guys and the midcard would be gigantic but if a brand split happens one way or another it would ease that.

At the very least, if they buy out all those guys, I assume a WCW spinoff (HARD ON SATURDAY NIGHT) actually happens.

I'm gonna sound like Bruce Prichard again (that's good shit, pal) but yeah of course, WWF would've made their money back if they brought in the Jurassic Park guys. They were still reeling from XFL bombing so I can see why they let the contracts run out. I bet if they'd known that their popularity was going to crater to '94-'95 levels within a year or two, they probably would have just said "Frig it!" and brought in the old dogs. Of course, a major reason why WWF's popularity cliffdived in the early '00s was them botching the InVasion.

 

[Valeyard]

The olds would've eased the transition but not by much. I think you'd end up exactly where it went, more or less, but with less Jericho and many more HHH/Nash and HHH/Flair matches and likely less OVW callups.

Goldberg would bail, though. Maybe Hogan too. There'd be a lot of "doesn't work for me, brother" with them.

 

[King Kamala]

Yeah. I didn't even think of the OVW callups aspect. If you frontload the InVasion, it probably delays Brock, Batista, Orton, and Cena's development. Maybe one of them says "Fuck it." and looks for greener pastures.

Speaking of which, not that they got any of the WCW big dogs from the getgo (Besides Scott Hall, I guess) but I'm guessing frontloading the InVasion would kneecap me and @The Valeyard 's beloved TNA (as well as @BruiserBrody 's beloved XWF and the WWA which was beloved by uh, Nathan Jones (not a poster here afaik)). Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo would undoubtedly try and get something going but it'd probably be a notch or two below what they did. Maybe more on level of a super indie than what they did.