Big Beard Booty Daddy
Canadian Destroyer213
***MOVED THIS POST TO THE OTHER TWITTER THREAD DUE TO MORE TRACTION***
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RT Me in Person: The 2021 Independent Wrestling Compendium
- Thread starter King Kamala
- Start date
King Kamala
Integral Poster
These two are basically only long term hope I have for independent wrestling in 2021. So glad they're choosing to start their rivalry in Maine!
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Uh oh!
Well, this is one way to make @Big Beard Booty Daddy even more a fan of the indies than he already is.
Well, this is one way to make @Big Beard Booty Daddy even more a fan of the indies than he already is.
Big Beard Booty Daddy
Canadian Destroyer213
Put Jazz in the main event and call it a day. Don't allow any fan in unless they are bald. Make it a Bald is Beautiful show.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
@Big Beard Booty Daddy might throw a shoe at me but you are really drinking the Kool Aid if they think the indies scene is as good as ever now. No disrespect to the talent pictured. I'm friendly with a couple of them but some of the inclusions are absolute jokes (none of the ones I'm friends with). There's maybe a half dozen people pictured on there that I think would fit on WWE and AEW's roster and nobody that screams "OMG! Why isn't this person not main eventing PPVs!?"
Then again, maybe I'm just looking at era of indy wrestling I was obsessed with in the 2010s with smark colored glasses and @Laz would probably look at me posting a 2016 equivalent of the above photo with "Yeah. Well it wasn't as good the indy scene in 2009!"
Then again, maybe I'm just looking at era of indy wrestling I was obsessed with in the 2010s with smark colored glasses and @Laz would probably look at me posting a 2016 equivalent of the above photo with "Yeah. Well it wasn't as good the indy scene in 2009!"
Lazgistics Supervisor
Making dumb observations since 2002
1. No, you're right, most of the talent pictured are fucking jokes. I recognize maybe 2 or 3, kinda, and they're even guiltier of the "exposing the business" type of telegraphing and hand-holding than the AEW roster.
2. I'd say the indies peaked between 2007 and 2013, as the earlier part of that era was still focused on producing unique talents that could blend acrobatic highspots with solid psychology and a mat-game, and the later part was the peak of the "fuck traditional match structure" subversion that has since become the norm (and produced less standout matches).
3. Also, enough with the fucking purple hair and flappy arms. You look like you struggle lifting a box of Naruto merch at your PT Hot Topic gig, ya fucking nerds.
2. I'd say the indies peaked between 2007 and 2013, as the earlier part of that era was still focused on producing unique talents that could blend acrobatic highspots with solid psychology and a mat-game, and the later part was the peak of the "fuck traditional match structure" subversion that has since become the norm (and produced less standout matches).
3. Also, enough with the fucking purple hair and flappy arms. You look like you struggle lifting a box of Naruto merch at your PT Hot Topic gig, ya fucking nerds.
Baby Shoes
Baby Shoes
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Dang, #3 has me wondering why you gotta call out my boy Ace Austin
King Kamala
Integral Poster
I'm OK with people saying that the indies will be fine or even people saying that current indies are good. I certainly think this isn't a lowpoint for indy wrestling. I think my promotions, Beyond & Limitless have done a great job of doing more with less. However to say that indy wrestling is better than ever is WWE cuck level of delusion.
I'm not going to name names of people that I don't like cause there's a mild chance someone will awkwardly confront me at a show or on Twitter but there's people pictured in that photo that have been lingering on the indies for like a decade. Stop acting like every talent on the show is some great undiscovered talent. Some people are just indy bums. I'm going to sound like Jim Cornette for the first and hopefully last time but participation trophy culture has really seeped into wrestling in annoying way.
I'm not going to name names of people that I don't like cause there's a mild chance someone will awkwardly confront me at a show or on Twitter but there's people pictured in that photo that have been lingering on the indies for like a decade. Stop acting like every talent on the show is some great undiscovered talent. Some people are just indy bums. I'm going to sound like Jim Cornette for the first and hopefully last time but participation trophy culture has really seeped into wrestling in annoying way.
Big Beard Booty Daddy
Canadian Destroyer213
As someone who watches tons of indies from across the country, I think they'll be fine. There's tons of talent out there right now, but I think it's at the beginning stages. So much talent has been snatched up that much of the talent that would be working lower on cards are forced to work higher up, which is good for their learning. I think within the next year or 2, much of the talent around now will be looked at in a similar way to much of the already signed talent.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Indies are like team on a first year of a rebuild. Just trying to determine who is a prospect and who is filler. I really really hope that the trend of WWE & AEW snatching up every mildly trending talent will grind to a halt as their rosters become overstuffed and young talent will continue to develop rather than get stuck on 205 Live or Dark and discarded.
I do find it promising that Daniel Garcia (who'd be one of the half dozen talent that I think would be ready for a major promotion tomorrow) has said that he plans to spend his foreseeable future on the Indies.
I do find it promising that Daniel Garcia (who'd be one of the half dozen talent that I think would be ready for a major promotion tomorrow) has said that he plans to spend his foreseeable future on the Indies.
Lazgistics Supervisor
Making dumb observations since 2002
I think independent wrestling as a business model, and not as a source of quality product, is maybe at the best it's ever been...at least, ya know, pre-COVID. Enough of the overall fandom is splintered off into tiny little sects that a company like GCW can not only survive but, ultimately, thrive off of utilizing absolute shitstain talents and "clever" booking. A large chunk of that is because of how often TNA/Impact and ROH dropped the ball, of course, and WWE's continued push to alienate any fan over 24 years old, but the indies are in a unique position now where "we aren't WWE" and "see the future stars of NXT/AEW" are concepts that can draw.
I don't think it'll last another 2-3 years unless a lot of them begin to offer something more individualized as a product, however.
Pro wrestling has thrived greater on emotional connections to talents than it has on quality performances. Sure, Ring of Honor under Gabe was all about putting on top notch action from bell to bell, but that action didn't happen in a vacuum, and served as the backbone to a "counter culture" of its own right against the renewed love of 'Roidy Magoo that befell WWE following the Attitude Era, just as ECW's "tits n' ass n' blood n' guts" approach was a giant middle finger to the simultaneous cartoon products put on by the WWF and WCW. The meta connection needs to be there, but the meta connection doesn't mean much if the fans don't care about who wins and who loses, and far too many indies are still stuck in "come see some cool flippy shit" mode.
Personally, and I'll say this until I have no more blood left pumping, I think Court Bauer has had the right idea since relaunching MLW: delivering a modern take on a classic style of product (where it's a sport filled with outlaws and not an "entertainment" program). Wins and losses matter, with the progression up the card of Injustice and Team Filthy's jobguy minions adding to the appeal of the product. He just can't find the right talent to hitch the wagon to for any good length of time, either through his own frugality or happenstance (since quite a few of the talents they've pushed as main attractions have signed with larger companies), and it's made the shows hard to follow long term as a result.
I'm rambling now, but I don't think indie wrestling is at its lowest point by any means. I've seen enough footage of John Rambo matches to know that there's still a lot of depth to the talent pool, even if half of the workers these days are just working some weird mishmash of Jeff Hardy and Okada worship.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Beyond Wrestling is returning on Thursday Night with a mystery show from the White Eagle Polish Hall in Worcester.
I feel like there is a fair chance I will cry at first indie show I go to after the pandemic.
I feel like there is a fair chance I will cry at first indie show I go to after the pandemic.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Owner of Beyond Wrestling gets it. No need to pretend that the independent scene is something that isn’t but you can still promise the possibility of seeing tomorrow’s stars and not be lying.
Lazgistics Supervisor
Making dumb observations since 2002
Aye, he does. At least on a macro/meta level. I'm not enthralled with the presentation or booking of Beyond and never really have been, but so much of that boils down to using who's been available in the scene and how they work versus my overall preferences.
Baby Shoes
Baby Shoes
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Putting this one for you @King Kamala . Major Brothers are doing a Patreon stream of an Indy show they ran from a studio.
Matt Cardona vs VSK for the CAP Championship
Brian Myers & Mark Sterling defend CAP tag titles against AEW’s BEAR COUNTRY
Hornswoggle vs Erik “Lana’s 1st Husband” James
Also featuring a special appearance by Shane Douglas who apparently is really close with Brian Myers
www.patreon.com
Matt Cardona vs VSK for the CAP Championship
Brian Myers & Mark Sterling defend CAP tag titles against AEW’s BEAR COUNTRY
Hornswoggle vs Erik “Lana’s 1st Husband” James
Also featuring a special appearance by Shane Douglas who apparently is really close with Brian Myers
Patreon
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www.patreon.com
Big Beard Booty Daddy
Canadian Destroyer213
Outside of some of the young talent making waves right now, if you really want to get a good look at the talent coming up, the best shows to watch are H2O (Matt Tremont’s school) shows and FSW out of Vegas.
Tremont has built an amazing school based on fundamental wrestling, so his kids are learning how to work, and then if they want to get into hardcore/deathmatches they can still do that. They run multiple shows a month between school shows during the week, monthly H2O shows where he’ll bring in bigger name wrestlers (RSP, Alex Colon, G-Raver, etc) to work with the kids. One of his students, Sean Henderson, also runs shows using mainly the students. He ran a tournament last night on IWTV and it was great. To see these 16, 17, 18 year old kids as they learn and get better is such a great ride. Not everything they do is perfect, but watching them grow is great, and they’re the next generation of stars. Marcus Mathers is one of the students, he just turned 18, and he’s one of the best talents out of their school.
FSW out of Vegas has been around over a decade and is the school where Chris Bey, Kevin Kross, Kenny King, Zoey Stark and a few others learned to wrestle. The school has some great talent coming out of it right now, and much of the talent was used on Paragon Pro Wrestling since they filmed in Vegas. The Bonu$ Boyz, Crashtest Cody, The Whirlwind Gentlemen, and others that @King Kamala would know make FSW their home. They run monthly big shows, and a few times a month with their students.
The indies are rebuilding, but between these 2 schools, Monster Factory in NJ, and a few other places, they’re going to be ok.
Tremont has built an amazing school based on fundamental wrestling, so his kids are learning how to work, and then if they want to get into hardcore/deathmatches they can still do that. They run multiple shows a month between school shows during the week, monthly H2O shows where he’ll bring in bigger name wrestlers (RSP, Alex Colon, G-Raver, etc) to work with the kids. One of his students, Sean Henderson, also runs shows using mainly the students. He ran a tournament last night on IWTV and it was great. To see these 16, 17, 18 year old kids as they learn and get better is such a great ride. Not everything they do is perfect, but watching them grow is great, and they’re the next generation of stars. Marcus Mathers is one of the students, he just turned 18, and he’s one of the best talents out of their school.
FSW out of Vegas has been around over a decade and is the school where Chris Bey, Kevin Kross, Kenny King, Zoey Stark and a few others learned to wrestle. The school has some great talent coming out of it right now, and much of the talent was used on Paragon Pro Wrestling since they filmed in Vegas. The Bonu$ Boyz, Crashtest Cody, The Whirlwind Gentlemen, and others that @King Kamala would know make FSW their home. They run monthly big shows, and a few times a month with their students.
The indies are rebuilding, but between these 2 schools, Monster Factory in NJ, and a few other places, they’re going to be ok.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Encouraging thing about indie scene is how young it is right now. You got people like Billie Starks and Starboy Charlie who aren't even legal age and getting in reps and making names for themselves. Days of undiscovered gem grinding it out on the indies are over in the short term but we can still hope for some diamonds in the rough (no TNA jokes).
It is a lot like a rebuilding sports team now. Results aren't always pretty but hey maybe it'll be great in three years.
It is a lot like a rebuilding sports team now. Results aren't always pretty but hey maybe it'll be great in three years.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Indie Wrestler Faye Jackson Announces Retirement
Yesterday, April 2, independent wrestler Faye Jackson announced that she will be retiring following WrestleMania week. She was trained at the ROH Dojo under Delirious.…
www.wrestlinginc.com
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Who said there's no good news in wrestling these days? The S.A.T are coming back, @Laz !!!
Big Beard Booty Daddy
Canadian Destroyer213
They've been dipping their toes in this for a bit. They really want to come back since Red had such a good run before the pandemic. This could be real good.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
I hope it works out. Independent wrestling scene could really use a strong veteran team.
Big Beard Booty Daddy
Canadian Destroyer213
I'd love to see AEW bring in SAT and RED, if only for a quick run, to have trio matches with Bucks/Kenny, Death Triangle, etc. Give them 3 months or so there and we could get some great matches.
Lazgistics Supervisor
Making dumb observations since 2002
...guys, they couldn't even go a single match without botching half their shit when in their physical prime 15 years ago. The fuck are y'all smoking?
King Kamala
Integral Poster
King Kamala
Integral Poster
Limitless' monthly IWTV show was last night and it was damn good. Better than most of the Mania Week shows and it felt like it had way better atmosphere than most of them even though it was a closed taping. Main event between Daniel Garcia and Lee Moriarty was a heater as advertised and really set up for a third part of the trilogy. And it also set up a Daniel Garcia Vs JD Drake match last night.
Best part of the show is it was only a smidge over two hours. It felt like an In Your House. Just a half dozen or so solid matches with nothing overstaying its welcome. I really hope indies stay in this direction after the pandemic instead of constant 4+ hour shows but I have my fuggin doubts.
Best part of the show is it was only a smidge over two hours. It felt like an In Your House. Just a half dozen or so solid matches with nothing overstaying its welcome. I really hope indies stay in this direction after the pandemic instead of constant 4+ hour shows but I have my fuggin doubts.
Lazgistics Supervisor
Making dumb observations since 2002
I can honestly say that the push for every match to be 20-30 minutes of EPIC NEERFALLZ and shows running 4 hours on the regular is my biggest gripe with wrestling in general, but most glaringly on the indies where most talent doesn't have enough polish to go even beyond 10 minutes.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
99% of wrestling cards, at all levels, don't need to last longer than two and a half hours. Actually, you can extend that statement to pretty much everything (meals, movies, sex). I'm fine with a promotion exceeding that number once maybe twice a year AT MOST.
One of the few upsides of AEW & WWE raiding the indies is its really cut down the length of most of these shows. During the mid-late 2010s indy boom, it felt like every card was 4-5 hours long. Granted, I think most of them are still in that 2.5 to 3.5 hour range (which is still somewhat too long) but it's no longer a guarantee that my knees will hurt after a Beyond show like they did between 2015-18. (thread for posters who are washed thread crosspost)
One of the few upsides of AEW & WWE raiding the indies is its really cut down the length of most of these shows. During the mid-late 2010s indy boom, it felt like every card was 4-5 hours long. Granted, I think most of them are still in that 2.5 to 3.5 hour range (which is still somewhat too long) but it's no longer a guarantee that my knees will hurt after a Beyond show like they did between 2015-18. (thread for posters who are washed thread crosspost)
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Epic Springs
Epic Reine
I used to subscribe to the idea that "the more wrestling the better" and sideeyed anyone complaining about shows being too long. Now that I'm an old man and had to sit through several Wrestlemanias that exceeded 5 hours, I'd say a 3 hour show is all I can tolerate and even that's pushing it.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
I should have showed up to his autograph signing at the discount store parking lot and yelled at him for posting transphobic pseudoscience.
King Kamala
Integral Poster
How about some Mexican Indy wrestling? Daniel Garcia Vs Aramis could be Garcia’s 2nd indy MOTY candidate in the same weekend. Villano III Jr is best luchador name. Also I have no idea if Lucha Memes is worst possible name for a Mexican indy promotion or just incredibly self aware/self effacing.
no idea why Garcia is billed as a member of The Foundation when afaik he’s never done anything for ROH. Indies gonna Indy.
no idea why Garcia is billed as a member of The Foundation when afaik he’s never done anything for ROH. Indies gonna Indy.