Sports Cards Hobby Thread 2.0

[HarleyQuinn]

Supply Chain woes are effecting Upper Deck NHL releases

Pretty huge news Hobby wise but also makes it interesting to see how any November/December releases for NBA, NFL, etc. may be effected too.

"On Tuesday, the company confirmed what one of its distributors had already announced: 2020-21 Ice and 2021-22 Trilogy were being dropped from the schedule. 2021-22 Series I Hobby has been moved back to an unspecified date in December, while retail packaging isn’t likely to arrive until after the holidays.

Upper Deck still plans to release 2021-22 O-Pee-Chee Platinum on November 10 and Team Canada on November 17 while ’21-22 MVP and Ultimate Collection will arrive by mid-December. Stature and Premier are planned for late December."

 

[snuffbox]

Can't wait to not be able to afford to open more packs/boxes!

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Can't wait to not be able to afford to open more packs/boxes!

Just give them like 3-6 months and then maybe you only have to pay 3-4X the sticker price of a retail hanger/mega box!

 

[SFH]

I get to see one of my pals tomorrow for a sports card hang out (he wants some of the Nolan Ryan cards I got graded). Known him since 8th grade and we went through high school and the same college music programs together. He just rediscovered his love of the hobby this year and we're pretty much talking every day for the past 3 months about sports and the hobby. We didn't talk this much aged 13-22 so this is so great to see the normally serious guy swoon so hard for the hobby.

One of the cool kids from high school hits me up about once a month too now, sports card related. He was probably the only football player to not bully a single person in our school. Somewhere in between messaging the two different old classmates I name dropped the other being a collector and now the three of us might be starting up a regular hobby hang out with beers.

Financially,

Spoiler

I do need to ease it back some. I've been so excited and hobby happy lately but that 28 card three grading orders return kinda boned me unexpectedly. I listed almost the entire return on myslabs (I set a ridiculous asking price for each but my auto accept prices are cost of grading & shipping x 1.5 for everything except the really unique items - that info stays here) . Wife has accepted a job offer so we'll start having 2nd income in house again within a month, just have to hope the third party graders keep up their sloth pace for now. But her job stuff is not this thread appropriate.

I like Sport lots but the sellers get a lot of leeway on shipping. They lure you in at $0.18 per card but then shipping will commonly be $3.99 - $4.99 for the first item and then from there you're at the mercy of each individual seller for additional purchases. The vintage guys can get away with stuffing smaller 8 tobacco cards in a toploader and then mail them in a PWE with a couple of first class stamps. My last order hit $100 for 72 small cards, $22 in purchase and then $78 in shipping based the additional item up charges. Then they arrive with a regular stamp. I am tolerating it because I AM a history nerd and believe that I could move individual cards at a profit if the tagged situation above gets too untenable. Just an SFH meandering rant, nothing new.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I like Sport lots but the sellers get a lot of leeway on shipping. They lure you in at $0.18 per card but then shipping will commonly be $3.99 - $4.99 for the first item and then from there you're at the mercy of each individual seller for additional purchases. The vintage guys can get away with stuffing smaller 8 tobacco cards in a toploader and then mail them in a PWE with a couple of first class stamps. My last order hit $100 for 72 small cards, $22 in purchase and then $78 in shipping based the additional item up charges. Then they arrive with a regular stamp. I am tolerating it because I AM a history nerd and believe that I could move individual cards at a profit if the tagged situation above gets too untenable. Just an SFH meandering rant, nothing new.

Love seeing people get back into the hobby! This is a large reason why I still stick with Beckett's marketplace, despite its deplorable UI because I know I can get free shipping. If you look on Ebay, a Burbank (or gamesandcards) card may be $0.99 but then you see the $3.99 shipping underneath and you do simple math: Buy 10 cards at $0.99 = $9.90 + $39.90 in Shipping (if you ordered a card a day).

I'd rather just do the $25-$50 order on Beckett for a wider variety of cards that interest me and get the free shipping.

If I did an 11 card order via Burbank of Roberto Luongo cards, it'd come out to $11.25 with 7 of those cards being $0.60. Uninsured USPS shipping would be $4.70 and insured USPS shipping would be $7.75 (almost the cost of the entire order). That $4.70 is 42% of the cost of the cards with the $7.75 being 69% of the cost.

 

[SFH]

I really just need to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I really just need to subscribe to your newsletter.

Most of my takes legit can be found in the newsletters I do for Brad: https://www.thecomebackcardinvestor.com/ (what he calls the price drops sign up area)

It's not as in-depth as some of the stuff I post in this thread but I take advantage of focusing on a card and dropping nuggets of knowledge (e.g. this latest one I looked at a 1974 Mike Schmidt Topps PSA 9 vs 8 vs 7 and compared the value/price of a 7 at $50 vs. a 9 going for $700+ more) or just a general reminder to ask why you're paying $250+ for a Terrell Davis RC in a PSA 10 when the raw is literally $1-$5 and is a "Junk Wax" era card that was heavily printed.

 

[SFH]

Adventures in trying to be cool like Harley:

Graded through SGC for $26, postage to SGC was $4.00 and return shipping for 5 cards was $8.

Listed to eBay for $115 or best offer.

And shipping is going to cost $3.88.

I profited $20 after all of that.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Adventures in trying to be cool like Harley:

And shipping is going to cost $3.88.

I profited $20 after all of that.

It's not a big thing but $20 is profit still. One thing I did notice is that Sports Cards/Non-Sports Cards Fees are 12.35% but I don't know if that changed for the 12.55%. Another thing I'll say is that your best bet would be to simply list a card at a BIN price (like Snuffbox does) without a Best Offer and set it at either a 'Comp' price, Your ideal price of $115, or set an ideal high price and list it at the lowest price you'd be willing to accept (e.g. 85% of $115 would be $100 or 75% would be $85). With Best Offer, you're likely never gonna get your initial price and may get more low-balled than otherwise expected. A guy sold his 1936-37 Jesse Owens SGC 4 at 70% of his asking price ($649, sold around $455 IIRC).

One future potential if listing at BIN is to try and figure out the fees/shipping costs ahead of time and set up your BIN price with all of that factored in to aim for the profit you want. Selling it at $95 would've netted you a $43 profit instead (those Ebay fees are harsh as fuck. Worth noting NFTs are only "5% sale price" fee-wise). There is this Ebay Fee Calculator that can help with this process and give you an idea if listing an item will be worth it.

Sounds like you actually did pretty decent considering a 1908-09 Georges Hackenschmidt SGC 2 sold for $67.30 out the door in Auction on 10/17. Also just doing a general breakdown (ignoring the shipping fees/eBay fees/postage): You basically spent $2.60 (Card Price) + $26 (SGC Grading Fee) = $28.60 and made a Gross Profit of $41.40 ($70-$28.60). That's a pretty good 2.45X. The majority of people touting how much they "make" in sports cards/sales are looking at just their Gross Profits, including all the big articles written via newspapers, etc.

For comparison's sake... Joe Montana PSA 8 over the last 6 Months via Market Movers
BIN = 56 Sales. Average price was $500.49 ($280 - $800)
Auct = 8 Sales. Average price was $471.12 ($400 - $550)
w/ABO = 388 Sales. Average price was $501.92 ($225 - $1,250). Hard to tell what the BIN vs. just BO was though

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Picked up the following cards for my Boston PC courtesy of Burbank ($69.25 Total). Notable single card prices listed.

2003 Fleer Tradition Black-White Goudey /1936 Pedro Martinez - $1.75
2003 SP Authentic '93 Throwback /1993 Pedro Martinez - $0.60
2006 Score Artist's Proof /32 Deion Branch - $9
2006 Topps '52 Debut Flashbacks Chrome /1952 Roger Clemens
2006 Topps Heritage Chrome /1957 Manny Ramirez
2008-09 UD MVP Gold Script /100 Marc Savard
2010-11 Artifacts Gold /35 Marc Savard
2011-12 Panini Contenders Gold /100 David Krejci
2011 Topps Factory Set Red Border /245 David Ortiz
2012-13 Upper Deck Exclusives /100 David Krejci - $9
2014 Stadium Club Field Access Rainbow /99 Roger Clemens (Just cool because it has Clemens leaning against the Green Monster scoreboard)
2019-20 O-Pee-Chee Platinum Red Prism /199 David Pastrnak - $8
2020 National Treasures Red Jersey Number /54 Tedy Bruschi - $8
2020 Topps' Decades Best Black /299 Pedro Martinez

 

[SFH]

So my Facebook bulk guy just hit me up. As if my 3 CSG orders popping at once wasn't bad enough a few weeks ago, 92 total cards (and a single BAS authentication) across x Non-guaranteed submissions in 2020 just popped at the same time. I'm going to have to stop buying completely for the immediate future now. I never in a million years thought spacing subs out by 1-2 weeks would it ever put me in a bind. Grading then and grading now has had dreadfully slow turn around time, so I figured I was solid and then once per pay period, some would trickle back and I'd pay him and go about my merry way.

Not a good look for me when I said, "ummmm can I do it across 4 different paypal transactions?"

It's not a big thing but $20 is profit still. One thing I did notice is that Sports Cards/Non-Sports Cards Fees are 12.35% but I don't know if that changed for the 12.55%. Another thing I'll say is that your best bet would be to simply list a card at a BIN price (like Snuffbox does) without a Best Offer and set it at either a 'Comp' price, Your ideal price of $115, or set an ideal high price and list it at the lowest price you'd be willing to accept (e.g. 85% of $115 would be $100 or 75% would be $85). With Best Offer, you're likely never gonna get your initial price and may get more low-balled than otherwise expected. A guy sold his 1936-37 Jesse Owens SGC 4 at 70% of his asking price ($649, sold around $455 IIRC).

One future potential if listing at BIN is to try and figure out the fees/shipping costs ahead of time and set up your BIN price with all of that factored in to aim for the profit you want. Selling it at $95 would've netted you a $43 profit instead (those Ebay fees are harsh as fuck. Worth noting NFTs are only "5% sale price" fee-wise). There is this Ebay Fee Calculator that can help with this process and give you an idea if listing an item will be worth it.

Sounds like you actually did pretty decent considering a 1908-09 Georges Hackenschmidt SGC 2 sold for $67.30 out the door in Auction on 10/17. Also just doing a general breakdown (ignoring the shipping fees/eBay fees/postage): You basically spent $2.60 (Card Price) + $26 (SGC Grading Fee) = $28.60 and made a Gross Profit of $41.40 ($70-$28.60). That's a pretty good 2.45X. The majority of people touting how much they "make" in sports cards/sales are looking at just their Gross Profits, including all the big articles written via newspapers, etc.

For comparison's sake... Joe Montana PSA 8 over the last 6 Months via Market Movers
BIN = 56 Sales. Average price was $500.49 ($280 - $800)
Auct = 8 Sales. Average price was $471.12 ($400 - $550)
w/ABO = 388 Sales. Average price was $501.92 ($225 - $1,250). Hard to tell what the BIN vs. just BO was though

Ebay is 100% not my ideal when it comes to selling for the hobby but it has a larger audience than Facebook marketplace and Myslabs. The fees and tolerance of BS is just too much. And you're really good with numbers and computations, it took me 30 minutes to put my little jpeg presentation together and research the numbers. I just set a high price to make sure I get back more than I sunk in and go from there. I don't want to run into another situation where I'm selling a graded Marino rookie for less than I paid.

Anyway I'm not sure what opening a box of 92 cards is going to look like, but at least I have my tripod now.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

So my Facebook bulk guy just hit me up. As if my 3 CSG orders popping at once wasn't bad enough a few weeks ago, 92 total cards (and a single BAS authentication) across x Non-guaranteed submissions in 2020 just popped at the same time. I'm going to have to stop buying completely for the immediate future now. I never in a million years thought spacing subs out by 1-2 weeks would it ever put me in a bind.

Yeah, that's a large reason why I stopped grading cards even after my first couple GMA shipments. The paranoia of sending in cards and then having them all pop at the same time, when I may not have the funds to cover it, scares me. I'd much rather just pay upfront, which also makes me think PSA's "insurance" (aka upcharge factor) is a bit of a money-making scam akin to charging a transaction fee if you use your CC. Given the long turnaround times, there's no way a submitter should know if their card is going to go from $50 to $500 in 10-13 months' time.

I just set a high price to make sure I get back more than I sunk in and go from there. I don't want to run into another situation where I'm selling a graded Marino rookie for less than I paid.

Yeah. COMC tends to be popular but you don't make as much money (I've made a gross profit of around $41 just flipping on the site and quickly put that profit into my checking account). MySlabs sounds great with its minimal fees but the pricing can vary.

The easiest factor is keeping track of what you've paid for a card (and its cost to grade if so inclined) vs. your sales price. I'd ignore the shipping, etc., and just use the KISS rule: If you paid $5 for a card, graded it at $20, and sold it at $45 then that's all you need. I have an Excel file that is: Player Name, Year, Set, Card #, Variation (e.g. Blue Holo /99), Price Paid, Grade Cost (e.g. GMA 10 $8), Date Purchased, and Where Purchased (e.g. Burbank or Ebay). It's good for filing/insurance purposes but also gives me an idea of a sales price down the road too.

That's also why I often harp on initial price point. As you certainly know, there's a world of difference in selling a card for $30 if you only paid $15 instead of $25. Some of the cards I've paid for such as my Le'Veon Bell BGS 10 & Jimmy G BGS 9.5, I've kind of accepted I'm probably gonna lose money on if I ever sell them down the road because I paid $25-$35 for them. At best I may break even on them.

Anyway I'm not sure what opening a box of 92 cards is going to look like, but at least I have my tripod now.

Can't wait to see your grades and the video!

 

[HarleyQuinn]

A set of basketball cards I picked up raw back in February of 2021 has gone up $36.50 in cost (11 cards) since then if I were to buy them all today! I paid $44.80 total then for those cards.

Basketball cards are still such an insane market, more so than the other sports IMO but it's clear that these LCS' are taking advantage of the money coming in and raising prices to reflect it.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Started up a new thread since the initial one had finally surpassed 50 pages (go @snuffbox @SFH and me!)

Panini Taking Over WWE License

Pretty big deal as Topps has long had a stranglehold on WWE. Curious to see how this affects the checklists, autographs, "patch"/"outfit" cards, legends inclusions, etc.

It will begin in early 2022 with WWE Prizm, aiming for WM (of course!), so I'll be keeping an eye on the price point of that. "Panini promised that its WWE products will be available at mass retailers including Walmart and Target, as well as hobby stores nationwide and online."

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Fanatics has a 2021 Donruss Football Factory Set + 5 Card Pack for $99.99 and of course, it's excluded from the site-wide up to 60% off PUMPKIN coupon because they gotta make that $$ on the cards.

 

[SFH]

The 92 card shipment arrived yesterday. I spent last night opening and videoing, video footage is still raw, I'll probably edit it during the game tomorrow. I have a lot of dead air I need to cut out due to a dull box cutter. I was sorting "For sale" and "PC" until 3 am. I took photos of a lot of the "For Sale" pile to just get onto Facebook marketplace with plans for proper scans today, for Myslabs and eBay. I already sold out of 20/30 Garbage Pail Kid cards that were in the return, just on Facebook marketplace. No bites yet on the sports stuff.

Have a halloween party tonight, so will finish scans tomorrow.

 

[snuffbox]

A National Treasures type WWE product would probably be a better, cheaper version of Topps's Transcendent.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I already sold out of 20/30 Garbage Pail Kid cards that were in the return, just on Facebook marketplace. No bites yet on the sports stuff.

Were you finding a mix of buyers or some picking up multiple pieces?

 

[SFH]

Were you finding a mix of buyers or some picking up multiple pieces?

The GPK cards went in the facebook group "Garbage Pail Kids Marketplace."

I have more success with selling stuff from the local team in the area buy/sell groups, and that usually nets cash. Myslabs has been very slow for me. I had an offer of $20 on an item, countered $27, my counter was rejected. Mind you, I had it listed at $60.

Ebay I'm trying to last resort that as much as possible, but last night I started evaluating which cards I could combine into lots.

 

[SFH]

Of the 92 cards I got back, these are the ones I set aside to PC. There are a bunch that I'm probably not going to move and over time they'll probably migrate over to my storage container, but that's just too much to post right now.

Spoiler

20 image limit, see next post.

 

[SFH]

continuation of previous post:

Spoiler

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Really love that 2015 Supreme #'d Drew Brees card + grade and that Boo Williams autograph. I do wish the grading companies would put the serial number of the card on the label e.g. 168/194 or whatever. It'd help combat counterfeits, regrades, etc., and let the consumer know inherently of the card scarcity.

 

[SFH]

When I was submitting directly, and not through bulk guys, I would indicate the serial # in the name field. Now everyone I use has their own excel file that does account for the serial # but that's more for them to keep their bulk straight, not for label purposes. I've got a few low numbered cards with "/1" or "/7" on them. But not consistent at all.

Since I'm slowing down on new subs, I've decided to tackle organizing my pre-war tobacco cards. Last night I was able to go through all 621 and pull out just the ones from Will's Cigarettes. Ebay has some binder pages for those sized cards that I might order.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I really like this guy's channel and he offers up an interesting take here especially in light of SFH's recent selling posts.

 

[SFH]

Now with a tripod.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Targeted more GOAT pickups on my latest order via Big Mac's Sportscards ($49 for 12 Cards). Always baffles me how cheap these cards are, raw, considering the listed scarcity of some of them when base cards of other players are going for 3-5X the prices of these literal legends.

1995 Stadium Club Metalists Insert - Jerry Rice ($3) - Just looked cool for a mid-90s Insert
1999 Fleer Mystique STAR - Brett Favre /2500 ($4)
2000 Donruss Elite Craftsmen - Peyton Manning /2500 ($2.50)
2000 Donruss Elite Turn of the Century - Peyton Manning /1000 ($3)
2002 Fleer Tradition Tiffany Decade of Dominance - Emmitt Smith /225 ($4)
2002 SP Authentic Signal Callers - Peyton Manning /2000 ($4)
2004 Playoff Honors X's - Drew Brees /199 ($5)
2006 Donruss Gridiron Gear Playbook HoloGold - Peyton Manning /100 ($6)
2007 Playoff NFL Playoffs Black - Drew Brees /199 ($5)
2010 Limited Gold Spotlight - Earl Campbell /25 ($5)
2013 Certified Platinum Blue - Bruce Smith /100 ($2.50)
2014-15 Hoops Shining Stars - Lebron James ($5) - Not serial numbered but I liked it being an Insert + the prominent Cavs logo on his uniform. I also really need more Lebron in my collection, lol.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Adding to my Curtis Martin collection with another order. Threw in a Drew Bledsoe to get over the threshold to make an offer. I legitimately think that Martin may be one of the most underrated RB in NFL History and that as the years progress, he'll be viewed more favorably. He's still 6th in rushing yards despite retiring after his age 32 season.

Also continue to target brands of 1998-2010 products that "collectors"/"investors" would recognize today e.g. Elite, National Treasures, Select, etc. before they were spun off into their own card sets.

The lone Drew Bledsoe card: 1998 Crown Royale Living Legends /375

1996 Donruss Elite Gold /2000
1999 UD Retro Throwback Attack Silver /500
2001 Playoff Preferred NT Gold /100
2001 Select Complete Players /550
2002 Donruss Elite Status /72 ($5.76)
2002 Playoff Prestige Inside the Numbers Gold /28 ($7.95)
2002 Score Final Score /100
2005 Playoff Honors Gameday Holofoil /100
2010 Playoff NT Notable Numbers /99

 

[SFH]

I have 2 CSG orders in one box in house and a total of 14 BGS cards incoming (one NG 2020 order, one with subs 30 day August 2020 order) from my Facebook bulk subber. I'm in the midst of 6 work days in a row plus school stuff so am going to just wait until the BGS box arrives to open then both for the youtube channel and scanning. The BGS should be Saints and Frank Thomas heavy. The CSG, if my math is correct, is just me grabbing random stuff from different eras to see how they handle certain sets.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

2000 Donruss Elite Craftsmen - Peyton Manning /2500 ($2.50)
2000 Donruss Elite Turn of the Century - Peyton Manning /1000 ($3)

Those two cards ended up being refunded. Small annoyance since I'm very particular about the cards I pick up but I can't imagine how many orders a lot of these places are getting daily so I've been considering it a victory when only 1 or 2 cards in an order get refunded.

 

[SFH]

Former (favorite) coworker and her husband own a local tavern, I've frequently tried to get them to book my musician buddy or his band for live entertainment. The husband makes all the business decisions and is expecting the talent to essentially play for free, so I've been unable to get my buddy booked. I even dangled the one deal my bud has at a different neighborhood bar, his guitar, a song book of 100 songs from 1950-1990, and an open bar, he drinks domestics. One night he drank 12 beers and that was his take for four hours of music. That was shot down too. As my coworker would tell me, "my husband is kind of a cheap ass." Last night the husband hits me up to buy some of my cards.

I was able to immediately reach a deal for 4 CSG graded Saints cards @ $20 each, 1 Brees graded card by someone outside of the big names for $20, an SGC 3 1966 Topps Mays for $60 (I conceded a lot of wiggle room on that one just to move it and he's married to my favorite coworker ever). I packaged up a few base cards of current players too. Then he sends me a screen grab of a $500 listing (my auto accept is at $250) and asks for "best price." Since it is someone I know on a personal level I cut through all the bullshit and tell him, "look man, I can probably easily hit $300-$350 on ebay and after fees I'll be lucky to have $250, I listed it at $500 to have a starting point of negotiations, so for you, $250." He says, "I'll let you know" then comes back 30 minutes later, "can you do $100?"

I politely reinforced what I could get for it if I wanted to deal with ebay drama and declined the $100 "but I'll let you know if I change my mind" and decided to not take the low blow of "no wonder the only entertainment you can book is your daughter's boyfriend, laptop, and speakers." ANYWAY I dropped the package off at the bar on my way to work, he still hasn't sent me the paypal, but I'm hinging a LOT of faith in that his wife is going to keep him honest on this deal.