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Brody and Friends talk about the AWA (Brody has no friends)

snuffbox said:
I'm not convinced that McMahon could have done those things vs stronger, smarter competition. He used so much of the money his dad and his dad's friends gave him to buy his dad's company that, as the story goes, he took a big financial risk on the first Wrestlemania even with Hogan, Lauper, etc.
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Terry Funk was the only smart promoter. He caught on that cable was going to change the biz and sold his promotion to Flair and Mulligan to crash and burn with instead of himself.

2nd place goes to Ole, who was trying to go national before Vince, but he share holders to beholden too. Vince just had GRAPEFRUITS
 
Like his fellow bitch Big Balls, after inheriting those grapefruits he got his ass beat by junior high kids.
 
I think I DQ Ole for being smart since by the time he was doing shoots in the early 2000s he was still insistent that Flair and Hogan wouldn't work as draws in GCW because they could only work one match.
He tried the roster split idea 2 years before Verne did too. Partnering with Joe Blanchard to expand West and North, while leaving rookie Jim Cornette and others in Atlanta to try and keep the home fires burning,
Having WTBS and USA (Blanchard's) as launch pads should have worked, but I don't think having his top face (Rich) self destructing and being on year 4 of being on top helped. He also had issues that some of his big draws (Hansen, Dusty, etc ) were more special attractions than guys he could build around.

As far as I know, Verne's roster split (established to fill out his east coast spot shows) lasted one TV taping before almost all of the new talent was shipped off (Samoans, Power Uti, Nagasaki, Tonga Kid, Youngbloods etc)
 
Vince still had a network of arenas (MSG, Meadowlands, Boston Garden, Spectrum, Capital Centre, Pittsburgh Civic Arena and so on) that any promoter would find hard to match before you even get to the markets that he was expanding to. It just wouldn't have been financially feasible for Verne to pay Hogan what he could make as the top star in WWF, especially since Hulk was still doing his Japan tours at the beginning of his title run.
 
Verne 1st got Chicago in like 1978 IIRC (It was WWA/Bruiser's before Verne bought in) Lots of AWA crossover before that. I wonder why Verne didn't bring Bob Luce in after Mean Gene left? Very buffoonish but legendary in his segments.

I'm sure Ole's expansion was looked at more like desperation and not a threat. Heading into Ohio was one thing since Sheik's area was long dead but moving towards Texas puts you into red hot WCCW territory and on the fringe of Watts' with JYD, not to mention all the smaller Texas groups besides Blanchard.
Now had Ole poached JYD and brought back the Freebirds from WCCW before blowing into the area....
 
There was someone else developing the upper midwest pro wrestling scene before Verne Gagne and Dick the Bruiser. Tony Stecher. Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are probably the most important states in pro wrestling history. Stecher predates Gagne and Bruiser (by a lot) and resurrected the territory, as it were, after Ed 'Strangler' Lewis's 1920s/30s popularity. And, of course, the Strangler's not the first either. Frank Gotch and Farmer Burns pioneered wrestling in the region, and in general, earlier...and before them, in the late 1800s, the first Strangler Lewis, Evan Lewis from Dodgeville WI, the first American champion. All along, before the AWA (and before and while the little McMahon boy's in short pants), there was still wrestling in the region. Charles 'Midget' Fischer and a thriving junior heavyweight scene, King Kong Kashey, Stu Hart was a regular at a ballroom that is now a Chinese restaurant in La Crosse WI (a major AWA market later), etc.

Of course, these things don't get mentioned on WWE's documentary videos. And I'm still not bought into Vince McMahon's inheritance being guaranteed to succeed. Different choices and actions in 1983 (before McMahon Jr was given full control of the company) could've meant that 1986 and 1987, and beyond, turn out looking much different.
 
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And, along with other things before or during the time of television: newspaper accounts, magazine articles, booking and pay sheets, advertisements, card lineups/posters/programs, oral histories and other recollections of participants and fans, etc.
 
snuffbox said:
There was someone else developing the upper midwest pro wrestling scene before Verne Gagne and Dick the Bruiser. Tony Stecher. Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are probably the most important states in pro wrestling history. Stecher predates Gagne and Bruiser (by a lot) and resurrected the territory, as it were, after Ed 'Strangler' Lewis's 1920s/30s popularity. And, of course, the Strangler's not the first either. Frank Gotch and Farmer Burns pioneered wrestling in the region, and in general, earlier...and before them, in the late 1800s, the first Strangler Lewis, Evan Lewis from Dodgeville WI, the first American champion. All along, before the AWA (and before and while the little McMahon boy's in short pants), there was still wrestling in the region. Charles 'Midget' Fischer and a thriving junior heavyweight scene, King Kong Kashey, Stu Hart was a regular at a ballroom that is now a Chinese restaurant in La Crosse WI (a major AWA market later), etc.

Of course, these things don't get mentioned on WWE's documentary videos. And I'm still not bought into Vince McMahon's inheritance being guaranteed to succeed. Different choices and actions in 1983 (before McMahon Jr was given full control of the company) could've meant that 1986 and 1987, and beyond, turn out looking much different.
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And to tie the generations together, Wally Karbo worked with Stecher in the 30s, and eventually Karbo bought into the Minnesota Boxing and Wrestling Club. Once Tony died, Verne took his place in ownership.

Karbo was doing fuck finishes that were overturned later before Verne was even on board. Karbo and Verne divorced in 1986 as part of a mess involving Blackjack Lanza and Winnipeg.

Kris Zellner recently dropped some knowledge I didn't know as he said Karbo ran Winnipeg as it's own organization (different name in the papers), even though 95 percent of the talent used was from the AWA. They did have exceptions such as booking Mad Dog Vachon after Verne blackballed him for leaving in 1984, as well as booking people like Dino Bravo. IIRC Winnipeg had it's own version of how Bockwinkel turned face as well.
 
There were fuck finishes and such even when wrestling was ostensibly 'real.' Gotch-Hackenshmidt, Evan Lewis shenanigans in the 1800s, etc.
 
Former AWA star Jake “Milkman” Milliman has been placed in hospice care recently. Milliman is 78 years old, and no ailments have been made public.

Legit loved me some Milkman as a kid with his AWA 1989-90 hijinks. The milkman came to the farm every morning at 830 so I was well aware of the heroics of Mr. Milliman.
 

We see the top of the set in the opening recap promo of Baron VR being murdered via a board,

-The commercial for AWA tix to the showboat has Larry Z (in JCP), Bock (In WWF), Scott Hall (long AWOL from the AWA), Boris (in WWF), Brad Rheingans (in WWF), Snuka (AWOL from the AWA for a long time) SAD!

- Adnan gets a shout out for his finisher "The Camel Stretch". He quit the AWA in February.
- Baron VR cuts a fiery promo. Vince must have decided letting Verne have some semblance of a feud to book was too much as Baron would be with Titan soon.
- Donna (with her GIANT 80s hair) informs us that the Nasty Boys will be bodyguards for Michael Jackson's next tour.
- The alleged Fan of the Week claims the Nasty Boys showed up at his barber shop and accidentally ruined his hair cut. Donna sends him a signed Nasty Boys picture. It didn't sound like he was a fan Donna!
- Wahoo tries to cut a promo on Hennig for future cage matches.
- Good lord we get the Show Boat ad with all the AWOL talent for a 3rd time.
- These squash matches have been in the can for 2 months at this point BTW.
- Steve O wrestled Dennis Stamp in a tag team and single squash on the taping. A bit odd. Rod Trongard is trying to put Stamp over as a vet heel.
- "Bill Gagne" gets a birthday shout out on the graphics.
- Big K reveals he's buying TV time. At least Verne is making some money. He shits on the "Rollers" (he then corrects himself to call them the Rockers), "Young Gagne". K rambles on about how the modern faces couldn't beat him, Thesz, Strangler Lewis and other talents from TEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO. FFS!!!
- A forth AD for the showboat show with the long gone talent!
- Sheik works a match. I guess this was his last appearance for around a year. Let's see if they do something to write him off?
- Verne asks why Adnan is on TV so much.
- Sheik is only 46 here, but could pass for 56.
- The mountains of empty seats is telling. This crowd sat through 25 matches, most of which being stretched out squash matches.
- Greg Gagne is behind a cage. He cuts a promo on behalf of Wahoo before calling out Paul Diamond.
- RAGE IN THE CAGE 2: April 16th!!! Shit, they should have rented the Metrodome.

4/16/88 – Las Vegas, NV @ the Showboat Sports Pavilion
Non-Title Steel Cage Match:
Wahoo McDaniel defeated Curt Hennig
Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson double DQ against Nasty Boys Brian Knobbs & Jerry Sags
Soldat Ustinov & Teijo Khan defeated Ray Stevens & Baron Von Raschke
Paul Diamond defeated AWA TV Champion Greg Gagne via DQ
Ricky Rice defeated Brian Knobbs via DQ
Mario Soto defeated Ricky Ataki
Rocky Mountain Thunder defeated Billy Anderson
Reported Attendance: 2,000

- Wahoo and Groovy Greg form the Mega Powers as they battle Orton Jr and Hennig,
- Wahoo is about to turn 50. Trongard claims Wahoo still runs a 4.2 40.
- I wonder why they didn't have the fans move forward to fill in the seats?
- We close with the youth movement the AWA needed as Ray Stevens cuts a promo behind a cage to plug Wahoo vs Hennig.
- WE SEE THE SHOWBOAT AD with all the LONG GONE talent for a 5th time!!!! Come see the show! 10 dollars for general admission!!!
- Larry Nelson sends us off by airing Tehjo Khan's debut as we saw at the start.
- Up next in 1988 was NWA pro wrasslin!
 
Nacho Barrera. died in the past few days. I have no emotional connection to him, but he's on the short list of famous AWA jabronis.

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The jobbers had their own indy in the early 80s, which I was surprised to learn since Verne was pissy when his guys worked "outlaw" in his areas.

The TV show is out there somewhere on youtube.
 
I'm glad you had grandparents still watching wrestling in the 1980s!
 
snuffbox said:
I'm glad you had grandparents still watching wrestling in the 1980s!
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A story I shared before but: Grandma told me she stopped watching wrestling because Nick Bockwinkel would always cheat to win and it pissed her off so much she stopped.

My grandpa basically stopped watching wrestling when syndication died in Sept 96. The last thing I recall watching with him was a video of the Feb 96 Clash I brought over. He said Nasties vs Public Enemy "wasn't wrestling". I told him he'd enjoy Alex Wright vs Dean Malenko coming up next.

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Interesting that mentions Rage in Cage was a PPV. I'm not sure if he is misremembering or if that was another Twin Cities PPV only type of situations (as was said Super Sunday was in some form)

He does fib about how he and Rose "sold out" arenas vs the Rockers night after night. That feud went during the collapse of the AWA business in late 86 into 87.

Somers also says Verne was annoyed that his former ring boys/trainees (Somers and Rose) were now stars. You'd think Verne would have been pleased his developmental worked.

Rose was the ref for Verne's title loss to Bockwinkel before Perchman was a star.
 
Gagne seemed to struggle a lot with his own employees' and trainees' successes. Not great, imo.

I think he would've found success with a ppv model, especially in the Upper Midwest. Then, and now, people have to drive any number of towns over for live entertainment: music, sports, etc. The Replacements, another Minneapolis institution, kinda baked this fact of life into their songs. Do 2-3 big "ppv" cards a year from a major market (Cities, Vegas, Chicago, etc) and do closed circuit, ppv access for bars and social clubs, and increasingly in-home as cable rose alongside. A handful of bigger towns that didn't get the show could do closed circuit in their arena + a few live matches from workers that didn't make the main card and a couple 'celebrity guests' like sports stars, old time wrestlers, tv/radio people, elected officials, school principals, etc.

By the mid-late 80s this would get phased out for regular in-home ppv, with a core audience already bought in to the medium. A stronger audience base, solid financial footing, and then add ESPN onto that.

Or, you know, get mad at your own best wrestlers because you're 60 and bald and it's not the '54 Olympiad anymore.
 
I have been re-watching Superclash off and on since they dropped it on the Vault. So Blackwell and Kamala have a stinker of a match, despite being 2 big agile guys it is largely rest holds. Then Adnan attacks Blackwell after. I assumed Sarge would run out given his connection to Blackwell and Sarge's earlier issue with Adnan and Boris Z on the show. Nope. Baron VR runs in with a bat. So I then assumed Baron and Blackwell would have teamed in Chicago, Rockford whatever for at least one return match type of thing with Adnan and his army..... nope.

Baron and Blackwell team up once after this but it is against Bockwinkel and Stevens.

Blackwell moves onto a feud with the Freebirds soon after.
 
Gagne probably thought that Zhukov's giant cranium would have a hunchback type of effect and he couldn't be pinned. No pin, no blowoff, just move on to something else.
 
So in Sept 86, not only did AWA have JCP and WWF TV to deal with but WCCW (since 84), Wild West Wrestling, Alabama and at least one other promotion (Maybe even Mid-South on top of it all) had syndication in the Twin Cities as the local stations tried to fill time and take advantage of the wrestling boom.

That same month AWA barely drew 1000 fans to Chicago for Bockwinkel vs Nord (who no showed) leading to a Hennig/Larry Z coin flip which Hennig won. Curt got the match. Larry cheated to help him win the title and then Curt forfeited the win later in the night because he didn't want to win it that way. They were already teasing a heel turn that took basically 9 months to execute fully.
Blackwell was on the undercard in a six man vs Adnan's B-team, but his drawing power was obviously dwindling.
 
Could the TV networks' choice to oversaturate their own market have played a role in AWA and its stars who'd remained losing popularity?
 
snuffbox said:
Could the TV networks' choice to oversaturate their own market have played a role in AWA and its stars who'd remained losing popularity?
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It probably didn't help. I'm sure Vince was fine with drawing 5-8000 people if it meant Verne wasn't using his monopoly to draw 10-12K a month anymore.

Trying to put Ali Khan in one of your main events and Temu Bruiser Brody in the other half of the main event probably didn't help either.

They were basically banking on Hennig somehow developing into the draw at this point and when that year long arch crashed, they rode it out for an another year anyway.
 
Pittsburgh Civic arena paid Verne 12,500 dollars to run a show in early 89 as they were pissy at WWF and WCW/NWA.

Rob Russen, who AWA name drops as their front man on TV for promoting, quits at this point. He was keeping the AWA afloat by finding promoters to pay for sold shows.

The OTHER WCW - Windy City Wrestling has Jim Brunzell headlining vs Steve Regal. Shame Verne couldn't stop being an asshole and made sure no former talent came back not named Bockwinkel or Baron.

Pittsburgh (18,000 seats)

3/4/89 – Pittsburgh, PA
Sgt. Slaughter defeated AWA Champion Larry Zbyszko via DQ
Wahoo McDaniel defeated Manny Fernandez via count out
Greg Gagne defeated Tommy Rich
AWA Tag Team Champions Badd Company Pat Tanaka & Paul Diamond defeated Ken Patera & Terry Gibbs
AWA Women’s Champion Wendi Richter defeated Ms. Olympia
Johnny Valiant defeated Dante Denucci
Shane Douglas defeated RC Anderson
Reported Attendance: 3,510
 
"Mr Electricity" Steve Regal, who got one of the AWA Remco figures, died last July.
 
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