GOAT TOURNAMENT ROUND 6: FINAL 4 CUBAN LINX 2

[still fly]

Other than Juicy, all Biggie raps about is bitches, drugs and selling drugs. Someone is going to have to sell me on Biggie having substance.

 

[Byron The Bulb]

Saying Biggie rapped about is "bitches, drugs and selling drugs" is like saying The Godfather was "only" a gangster movie. It's not about the material, it's about what you do with it, doggy. But anyway, if you're looking for more traditional markers of quote-unquote "substance," take the first and last songs from Ready to Die

Remember back in the days, when niggaz had waves
Gazelle shades, and corn braids
Pitchin pennies, honies had the high top jellies
Shootin skelly, motherfuckers was all friendly
Loungin at the barbeques, drinkin brews
with the neighborhood crews, hangin on the avenues
Turn your pagers, to nineteen ninety three
Niggaz is gettin smoked G, believe me
Talk slick, you get your neck slit quick
Cause real street niggaz ain't havin that shit
Totin techs for rep, smokin blunts in the project
hallways, shootin dice all day
Wait for niggaz to step up on some fightin shit
We get hype and shit and start lifin shit
So step away with your fist fight ways
Motherfucker this ain't back in the days, but you don't hear me though

[Verse Two:]

No more cocoa leave-io, one two three
One two three, all of this to me, is a mystery
I hear you motherfuckers talk about it
But I stay seein bodies with the motherfuckin chalk around it
And I'm down with the shit too
For the stupid motherfuckers wanna try to use Kung-Fu
Instead of a Mac-10 he tried scrappin
Slugs in his back and, that's what the fuck happens
[. From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/n/notorious-big-lyrics/things-done-changed-lyrics.html .]
when you sleep on the street
Little motherfuckers with heat, want ta leave a nigga six feet deep
And we comin to the wake
To make sure the cryin and commotion ain't a motherfuckin fake
Back in the days, our parents used to take care of us
Look at em now, they even fuckin scared of us
Callin the city for help because they can't maintain
Damn, shit done changed

[Verse Three:]

If I wasn't in the rap game
I'd probably have a key knee deep in the crack game
Because the streets is a short stop
Either you're slingin crack rock or you got a wicked jumpshot
Shit, it's hard being young from the slums
eatin five cent gums not knowin where your meals comin from
And now the shit's gettin crazier and major
Kids younger than me, they got the Sky grand Pagers
Goin outta town, blowin up
Six months later all the dead bodies showin up
It make me wanna grab the nine and the shottie
But I gotta go identify the body
Damn, what happened to the summertime cookouts?
Everytime I turn around a nigga gettin took out
Shit, my momma got cancer in her breast
Don't ask me why I'm motherfuckin stressed, things done changed

When I die, fuck it I wanna go to hell
Cause I'm a piece of shit, it ain't hard to fuckin' tell
It don't make sense, goin' to heaven wit the goodie-goodies
Dressed in white, I like black Tims and black hoodies
God will probably have me on some real strict shit
No sleepin' all day, no gettin my dick licked
Hangin' with the goodie-goodies loungin' in paradise
Fuck that shit, I wanna tote guns and shoot dice
All my life I been considered as the worst
Lyin' to my mother, even stealin' out her purse
Crime after crime, from drugs to extortion
I know my mother wished she got a fuckin' abortion
She don't even love me like she did when I was younger
Suckin' on her chest just to stop my fuckin' hunger
I wonder if I died, would tears come to her eyes?
Forgive me for my disrespect, forgive me for my lies
My babies' mothers 8 months, her little sister's 2
Who's to blame for both of them (naw nigga, not you)
I swear to God I want to just slit my wrists and end this bullshit
Throw the Magnum to my head, threaten to pull shit
And squeeze, until the bed's, completely red
I'm glad I'm dead, a worthless fuckin' buddah head
The stress is buildin' up, I can't,
I can't believe suicide's on my fuckin' mind
I want to leave, I swear to God I feel like death is fuckin' callin' me
But naw you wouldn't understand (nigga, talk to me please)
You see its kinda like the crack did to Pookie, in New Jack
Except when I cross over, there ain't no comin' back
Should I die on the train track, like Remo in Beatstreet
People at the funeral frontin' like they miss me
My baby momma kissed me but she glad I'm gone
She knew me and her sista had somethin' goin' on
I reach my peak, I can't speak,
call my nigga Chic, tell him that my will is weak.
I'm sick of niggas lyin', I'm sick of bitches hawkin',
matter of fact, I'm sick of talkin'.

 

[Byron The Bulb]

Also how on earth can you condemn Biggie for lacking depth of substance and then turn around and vote for Snoop in the other match? lol

 

[KOAB]

because it's him or Jay-Z.

 

[KOAB]

Jay Z Book of Rhymes from Bill Maher

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-17-2010/jay-z

best rapper of all time getting verbal bjs from bill maher and jon stewart praise be to HOVA JIGGA GOTTI

 

[still fly]

Also how on earth can you condemn Biggie for lacking depth of substance and then turn around and vote for Snoop in the other match? lol

Snoop is an American original and has an recognizable flow that been has never been duplicated. Jay-Z pretty much stole Biggie's career after he died. Jay Z is lucky that he made a lot of money before the record companies consolidated after the rise of file sharing. Jay-Z would have been as forgotten as Ja Rule, DMX and the LOX and other late 90's east coast rappers if he didn't luck into putting Kayne on HOVA in 2001.

 

[Brooklyn Zoo]

For real. I remember when Jay-Z was performing on the MTV Music Awards and everyone was like "BEST EVER" "THE GOAT RIGHT HERE" and I'm like, when the fuck did this happen?

 

[KOAB]

when white people realized who he was.

 

[Precious Roy]

Also how on earth can you condemn Biggie for lacking depth of substance and then turn around and vote for Snoop in the other match? lol

Jay-Z pretty much stole Biggie's career after he died.

yeaaaaah....that didn't really happen. co-opted on him, sure, but it's no different than what any other rapper has ever done when one of their running mates died, or any wrestler for that matter, same principal. He used a couple Biggie lines as a tribute, big deal.

plus, Jay's best album came out BEFORE Biggie died, and nobody was calling him out for biting his style back then

jay-z - 22 two's - Reasonable Doubt

Jay-Z - Can't Knock The Hustle

He's had the same flow for 15 years

I'm suprised Jay actually made it to the final 4, I voted against him a couple of times, but come on, that's a weak argument

 

[Perfxion]

It must really be East Coast vs West Coast. Because to say someone is "biting" someone's style but not the other is a joke. To say Jay-Z is just being Biggie 2.0 with his style, then Snoop is just Ice-T 2.0 with everything being about bitches and pimpin'.

 

[still fly]

Let's look at some actual proof that Jay is a biter

Biggie - "Hypnotize"
"That's why I, squeeze first ask quesions last. That's how most of these so called gangstas pass"
Jigga - "Squeeze 1st"
"That's why I, squeeze first ask quesions last. That's how most of these so called gangstas pass"

Biggie - "The World Is Filled"
"When the Remi's in the system, ain't no tellin will I f*&$ em will I diss em, that's what these h*& yellin I'm a pimp by blood, not relation Y'all still chase on, I'll replace on, punks Drunk of Dom"
Jay-Z - "Give It 2 Me"
"When the Remi's in the system, ain't no tellin Will I f^%$# 'em will I diss 'em, that's what they be yellin I'm a pimp by blood, not relation Y'all be chasin, I replace them, huh?
Drunk off Crist"

Biggie - "Who Shot Ya"
Thou shalt not f%$# with or see Poppa feel a thosand deaths...
Jay-Z - "Squeeze 1st"
Thou shalt not f%$# with raw me, or he face a thousand deaths...

Biggie - "Unbelievable"
"Get ready to die, tell God I said hi And throw down some ice, for the nicest MC"
Jay-Z - "Friend or Foe 98"
"Do me a favor dude, get 2 ice cubes I pass them take that ice up, for the nicest MC"

Biggie - "Kick in The Door"
"Your reign on top was short than leprechauns"
Jay-Z - "The Ruler's Back"
"Your reign on the top was shorter than leprechauns"

Biggie - "One More Chance"
"isn't this great, my flight leaves at eight her flight lands at nine, my game just rewinds"
Jay-Z - "Girls...Remix"
"isn't this great, my flight leaves at eight her flight lands at nine, my game just rewinds"

Biggie - "Real N&^%s Do Real Things"
"On the road to riches and diamond rings real n&^%s do real things"
Jay-Z - "Real N&^%s"
"On the road to riches and diamond rings real n^%$ do real things"

Biggie - "Who Shot Ya"
"Old school new school need to learn though I burn baby burn like Disco Inferno"
Jay-Z - "Frestyle"
"Old school, new school need to know this I burn like Left Eye Lisa Lopez"

Biggie - "One More Chance"
"I don't chase em I replace em"
Jay - "Is That Yo B!tch"
"I don't chase em I duck em I replace em"

Big L - (on the 7 minute 95' freestyle with Jigga)
"All I got for chicks is hard d%$# and bubble gum"
Jay-z - "A Million and One Questions"
"All I got for chicks is hard d%$# and bubble gum"

Snoop Dogg - "What's My Name?"
"From the depths of the sea, back to the block Snoop Doggy Dogg, funky as the, the, The D.O.C went solo on that azz, but it´s still the same Long Beach is the spot where I served my cane ....What's my f%$# name" "He is I, and I am him, slim with the tilted brim"
Jigga - "Jigga my n!gga"
"From the crap tables down in A.C. back on the block Jay-Z motherf%$# from the, the, the Roc went solo on that azz but it´s still the same Brooklyn be the place where I serve them thangs ....You heard the name" "He is I, and I am him Slim with the tilted brim on twenty inch rims"

Nas - "Verbal Intercourse"
"From the womb to the tomb, presume the unpredictable Guns salute life, rapidly, that's the ritual"
Jay - "Never change"
"From the womb to the tomb, from now until my doom drink army from one cup pass it around the room, That's the ritual"

2pac - "My Ambitionz Az a Rydah"
"My attitude is f%$ it, and mothafukkas love it"
Jay-z "Blueprint 2"
"My attitude is ff%$ it, and mothaff%$ love it"

2pac - "Against All Odds"
"This is payback, i knew you bf%$ nf%$ from way back"
Jay-z - "Blueprint 2"
"This is payback, i knew you bf%$ nf%$ from way back"

Mase - "Lookin' at me"
"Why you over here looking at me, while my girl standing here"
Jay-z - ???
“Yall Look it Up" "Why you over here lookin at me, while all these girls up in here"

Biggie - "Big Poppa"
"I see some ladies tonight that should be having my baby.. baby."
Jay-Z - ???
"I see some ladies tonight that should be rollin wit Jay-Z, Jay-Z"

Biggie - "Be Happy" (R.Kelly ft. Biggie)
"Think About It While The Streets You Roam It's Don P And Cristie In The Fridge When You Get Home"
Jay-Z - "Best Of Both Worlds" (Jay-Z & R.Kelly)
"Think About It While The Streets You Roam It's Don P And Army In The Fridge When You Get Home"

Snoop Dogg - "Aint no Fun"
"Guess who's back in the mothaf%$# house with a fat d%$# for ya mothaff%$# mouth"
Jigga - "Ff%$# All Nite"
"Guess who's back in my motherf%$# house half black, half white chick, I call her Minnie Mouse"

Slick Rick - ???
"In these times, at least to me, there's alot of rappers out there tryin to sound like Ricky D"
Jay-Z - ???
"In these times, at least to me, there's a lot of rappers out there tryin to sound like Jay -Z"

Rakim - "No Competition"
"Competition is none, I remain at the top like the sun"
Jay-Z - "S. Carter"
"Competition is none, I remain at the op like the sun"

Cappadona - "Slang Editorial"
"I came to the fork in the road and went straight"
Jay-Z - "Renegades"
"I drove by the fork in the road and went straight"

Nas
"Seude timbs on my feet makes my cypher complete"
Jay-Z
"S.dots on my feet makes my cypher complete"

Lil Wayne
"Number one rapper, sipping mo mo's, dont make me come press ya with this fo fo"
Jay-Z
"Number one rapper, sipping mo mo's, dont make me come press ya with this fo fo"

2pac - "Against All Oddz"
Payback, I knew U b%$# n%$# from way back. witnessed me strapped with Macs, knew I wouldn't play that,"
Jigga - "Some People Hate"
N %$# This the Payback, I know U b%$# n%$# from way back. n%$# wanna clown but the pound it don't play that,"

Dr. Dre - "Chronic 2001 LP"
"You get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it"
Jay-Z - "Takeover"
"Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it

http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/interviews/id.395/title.the-trial-of-jay-z

So yeah Jay is a biter that made millions co-opting other people's shit. That's why people don't take him seriously. This is some Game type namedropping shit.

 

[Precious Roy]

hahahha, individual lines out of songs. like I said, he dropped some Biggie lines in tribute. It's a bit of co-opting, sure, but Jay had a sick flow and sick lyracism before Biggie died. It's not like he magically stole Biggie's soul. It's not like he was trying to hide anything either, everybody knew when he was dropping some Biggie verses, and it was dope. It was only haters and nerds that made a big deal out of it

I mean, this is hip hop. this is what it has been from day 1, the same refrains, the same lines, everybody was using them. Everybody uses everybody elses shit, everybody samples everything and anything, the trick is making it all work in context. Jay has always made it work.

 

[Precious Roy]

I mean really, have you ever quoted a movie? Or quoted a line from a song? Jay-Z quotes lines that he likes, it's his own personal shoutout to people that inspired him. How many of those people were actually pissed at him for doing it? He's showing respect.

 

[still fly]

I mean I understand it's apart of the hip hop game, but I'm looking at Jay-Z as a complete artist. Artistically, Jay-Z falls short for me. Reasonable Doubt was a great album but really that's the only album where you could say he carried lyrically. After that, Jay seemed to have fallen into getting the hottest producers (Swizz Beats and Ruff Ryders crew and then Kayne) and spit whatever and it'll sell trap. Then again I've never been a Jay-Z fan.

Jay-Z has never transcended rap music in anyway. I'll give him credit for longevity (he is this generations LL Cool J), but as far as originality and creativity he falls way short. People aren't going to remember Jay Z like they do Biggie and Pac. Snoop has made himself into a cultural icon which Jay Z will never become.

Jay is a good self promoter than has made millions doing so. He filled a void in the East Coast scene and never let it go. Kudos to him for that foresight. But it doesn't make him the GOAT.

 

[still fly]

I mean really, have you ever quoted a movie? Or quoted a line from a song? Jay-Z quotes lines that he likes, it's his own personal shoutout to people that inspired him. How many of those people were actually pissed at him for doing it? He's showing respect.

It's fine, but this is like the Game namedropping like crazy on his albums. What else do you have to offer me you know? Jay has never showed a socially conscience side or at least try something different. Yeah his style sells millions but I feel slighted as a fan of rap music. I would have liked a Jay-Z that was deep and introspective. The fucking Black Album was as close as we'll ever get to seeing another side of Jay.

 

[Precious Roy]

I don't know man, I'm sensing a definite west coast bias/blinders here. Jay-Z is a cultural icon to a major fucking degree. He's transcended rap far beyond what Snoop Dogg ever did. He gets shouted out by Barack Obama, he gets invited to state dinners.....I mean, come on....

 

[Precious Roy]

I mean really, have you ever quoted a movie? Or quoted a line from a song? Jay-Z quotes lines that he likes, it's his own personal shoutout to people that inspired him. How many of those people were actually pissed at him for doing it? He's showing respect.

It's fine, but this is like the Game namedropping like crazy on his albums. What else do you have to offer me you know? Jay has never showed a socially conscience side or at least try something different. Yeah his style sells millions but I feel slighted as a fan of rap music. I would have liked a Jay-Z that was deep and introspective. The fucking Black Album was as close as we'll ever get to seeing another side of Jay.

Jay seems socially conscious and introspective enough in his own way when you listen to the totality of his lyrics. Honestly, a lot of overly political rappers or overly message oriented rappers are boring as hell. I don't see that as a real critera to vote on, but that's just me. Obviously you want things like that to come out in the songs, but I like it when it's more subtle

I don't think he belongs in the GOAT convo either though. He'd have lost to Sadat X if it were up to me.

 

[KOAB]

I go with dead man's post up there. When I first got Reasonable Doubt I was going oh shit this nigga is probably gonna end up being one of the best of all times... and then with each new album, single, etc... it felt like he was just coasting throughout everything since his first album. Like the name and character of Jay-Z was more than he was as an MC/rapper. But that is usually what happens to all rappers... they at least do it after 3 albums not one... but that's just how I feel about the guy.

While I agree he worked over Nas in their feud... I've just been disappointed with the guy with each new thing he does. I mean if you would of told me in '98 the guy who made D'Evils, Can't Knock The Hustle, Brooklyn's Finest... would get outrapped by a fat fuck who used to be an officer and the only positives he has is that he looks and sounds cool and has a great ear for beats a little over a decaded later, I would of guffawed and ask you to give me some of what you were smoking.

 

[KOAB]

And fuck can we replace Jay-Z with Big L last minute sub if there needs to be an East Coast rep

 

[Precious Roy]

yeah, if it comes down to Snoop and Pac somebody needs to drive by the south central pee wee football field and glock Snoop while me and The Rza go to the graveyard to resurrect Big L

 

[KOAB]

Big L, Slick Rick, Andre 3000, Biggie... I had no idea we had Jon Stewart making Jay a #1 seed and pretty much making sure he goes on to the finals.

 

[Mattdotcom]

Jay-Z...gets shouted out by Barack Obama, he gets invited to state dinners.....I mean, come on....

Jay is rap for white boys that want to impress their black friends.

 

[Precious Roy]

hahahah, well, yeah

I'm not the one that brought color into the conversation

 

[Wario Lemieux]

Flocka bit that first "so called gangstas" line too.

 

[Brooklyn Zoo]

No, no, no, no. Fuck you guys. If it were up to me, Big L would have been in the Final Four. I seeded based on general consensus. Personally, I've always disliked Jay-Z. Seeing that he got to the final four, my seeding was accurate.

 

[MFer]

I'll just say that you all are sleeping on the American Gangster album, which was only 3 1/2 years ago. Add that to Reasonable Doubt, The Blueprint, and The Black Album (I'll throw in Vol. 1 too), and that's a very strong top-5. Sure, he's not the greatest, but I think people just rag on him cause they don't like him in general.

 

[Perfxion]

Kind of hard to say a guy married to one of the top pop acts of the last 10 years and getting Obama and Oprah to say they are fans. And to be part owner of a basketball team with being named dropped all over sports TV is really transcending rap. Only rapper to truly transcend rap more than Jay-Z is Will Smith.

Snoop on the other guy is the fun fool talking "izzle dizzle shizzle" and his millions of true white suburban fans think is cool because he found new ways to call women bitches. Snoop is a cultural icon, but so is Flava Flav. Doesn't really mean he is looked in much of a positive light out side of rap.

 

[909]

Snoop is looked at in an extremely positive light outside of hip-hop. Just sayin'. It's like everything he's ever done wrong or been accused of doing never happened in any way, shape, or form.

Getting Oprah to say she's a fan is one of the most damning arguments against Jay-Z I've ever read.

 

[Mattdotcom]

Hey we were flipping channels tonight and what the hell is Big Time Rush feat. Snoop Dogg - Boyfriend

 

[still fly]

Haha getting the house negros to socially accept you doesn't really resonate with those of us in the field. And yay Jay is name dropped by ESPN. Once Bill Simmons co-opts someone I know I don't want any part of it.

Jay Z smartly cashing out on Roc A Fella records doesn't make him transcendent in any way. Will Smith actually had talents outside of being a shitty rapper. What the fuck has Jay done that transcends anything except for somehow having Beyonce fall in love with him. People will remember Jay just like they remember LL Cool J. A rapper that lasted a long time and won a couple battles. No kid is going to grow up and copy Jay Z. They will emulate Pac, Snoop or BIG.

In fact I could name 15 rappers better than Jay-Z right now starting with our three finalists:

PAC
BIG
Snoop
AZ
Xzhibit
Big L
Cam'ron before 2004
Nas
Big Pun
MC Ren
Eminem
Talib
Mos Def
Common
Rakim
Kool G Rap
Kurupt
DMX

More than 15 but my point stands. Jay was pushed down our throats and his team smartly pushed him as GOAT and no one fucking questioned it. Me being a West Coast guy, I especially resent Jay Z.

And don't say Snoop got suburban white kids to say izzle and boitch when fucking Jay taught them how to be BIG PIMPIN and that bitches weren't problems. Snoop practically help build Jay's audience in way. Mafioso rap is a cousin of Gangsta Rap.