Old School Observations and Questions, 2024

[Valeyard]

It's a really good match. Up to that point one of the best main events in Wrestlemania history. As awful a person as Shawn was, I always liked that his arrogance was more about being the best to benefit himself instead of to deliberately kill people off like HHH did. Like the mentality to outwork someone vs making sure they fail is very different.

But like, that match should've been Bret, and it never hit the same because of that. I also didn't like how they never mentioned Austin and Shawn's past because them as tag champions was a huge part of the previous year.

 

[Super Leather]

Not only is it Stan Hansen vs. Antonio Inoki, but it also might be the first complete Stampede Wrestling match I've seen yet. Everything else I've watched is always joined in progress.

 

[Gert]

It's a really good match. Up to that point one of the best main events in Wrestlemania history. As awful a person as Shawn was, I always liked that his arrogance was more about being the best to benefit himself instead of to deliberately kill people off like HHH did. Like the mentality to outwork someone vs making sure they fail is very different.

But like, that match should've been Bret, and it never hit the same because of that. I also didn't like how they never mentioned Austin and Shawn's past because them as tag champions was a huge part of the previous year.

I think the fact that both DX and Austin ascended so high between October 97 & Wrestlemania XIV, plus the publicity of Tyson made it so the former tag team champs angle was at best third most important part of the story. They also didn't have a huge blowoff/breakup so I think it was almost out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Valeyard]

That's the thing though. They didn't have a blowoff. It adds intrigue as well considering their trajectories. But more than anything it's weird even now that their past wasn't acknowledged despite it being less than a year earlier and some of the hottest segments of the year.

 

[BruiserBrody]

It's a really good match. Up to that point one of the best main events in Wrestlemania history. As awful a person as Shawn was, I always liked that his arrogance was more about being the best to benefit himself instead of to deliberately kill people off like HHH did. Like the mentality to outwork someone vs making sure they fail is very different.

Ken Shamrock, Shane Douglas, the Rock and many others would beg to defer.

Plus whatever you want to call his legendary ability to lose titles without putting the next guy over.

 

[Valeyard]

He didn't work Rock, Douglas wasn't very good, and Shamrock worked out. A better argument is Vader or Bulldog. Regardless, his body count is not HHH level. Being a piece of shit backstage is different than just killing people off on a large stage.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

I'm watching the WWE Vault stream of "Hall of Famers Battle at WrestleMania," and it's currently on Edge vs. Taker from WM24.

We don't talk enough about how awesome Edge's gear was at this point. His urban camo pattern looked fucking solid.

This match was one a lot of us felt was underwhelming at the time, but I'm chalking that up to it being after the HBK/Flair retirement match that clearly stole the show, because if you put this same match on today? Move for move, beat by beat? It's getting called an all-time classic.

It's actually insane how much the modern style of match pacing owes to Edge and Kurt Angle, for better and worse.

Speaking of Angle, after that was Angle/Kane from WM18. It's a pretty basic match, but it has the tightest looking example of Angle's "run up avalanche suplex" spot ever.

 

[Valeyard]

You can trace every major positive and negative of WWE main event style (not to be confused with WWF main event style) to Benoit/Angle at the Rumble.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

You can trace every major positive and negative of WWE main event style (not to be confused with WWF main event style) to Benoit/Angle at the Rumble.

Just WWE though? When I think of that match I imagine a lot of hold reversals and the "I was in this death submission but poof now it is I who am putting one on you" thing seems fairly common in main events. Major American ones anyway, couldn't speak to Japan, Mexico, or Europe.

 

[Valeyard]

Oh definitely, but it seemed to especially define WWE's style for the next fifteen years.

I love that match.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Oh definitely, but it seemed to especially define WWE's style for the next fifteen years.

I love that match.

Oh, I do too. It was awesome live, as it followed that disastrous HHH/Steiner match. I told my friend who had never seen a wrestling PPV at the sports bar that Benoit/Angle would be the opposite of the previous exhibition. Then it was. I actually bought the physical DVD back then because of how much I loved that Benoit/Angle match. It was one of two PPV DVDs I bought back then, the other being Wrestlemania XIX.

But that Angle/Benoit match is so goddamn good. Fucking hell, I hate how many of my favorite times involve Benoit but I kinda rationalize it in the most absurd way, "I can enjoy this because he hadn't killed his family *yet*, we didn't know!"

Why must this business make all the things we like dirty in the end.

 

[Valeyard]

It, or the 2004 Rumble, are honestly the end of Benoit for me. I can go fine without seeing the last three or four years. Those nights have more weight and are the maybe the times I was happiest to be a fan of his, the rest I can leave.

HHH/Steiner is my favorite bad match ever. It's bad in a riffable way. But that said Angle/Benoit was the only MOTYC for WWE that year, I feel like.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

It, or the 2004 Rumble, are honestly the end of Benoit for me. I can go fine without seeing the last three or four years. Those nights have more weight and are the maybe the times I was happiest to be a fan of his, the rest I can leave.

HHH/Steiner is my favorite bad match ever. It's bad in a riffable way. But that said Angle/Benoit was the only MOTYC for WWE that year, I feel like.

I told my friend the Angle/Benoit match would be the opposite of the HHH/Steiner fiasco and then it was. The latter is also my favorite bad match ever as well.

WrestleMania XX is kind of the end of Benoit in my head, going out on top. Even after he won and retained the belt I knew he'd be a secondary champ. Yeah, a program with Kane. You're 4 Real now, sure.

 

[snuffbox]

But at least the WWE learned from that and wouldn't kneecap any more champions with an immediate run vs Kane.

 

[Fall of Epic]

What was up with Vince's obsession with Ivan Putski in the 90s? Constantly hyped him up on programming and even gave him a shot tagging with his son in '97 but when the new millennium came, I feel like he just forgot about him and never mentioned him in the same breath as other legends at the time. Maybe Scott not working out had something to do with it?

 

[Valeyard]

I figure it's a loyalty thing. Once the boom started, he either wasn't needed for whatever Vince had in mind or he didn't want anything to do with what the company had turned into by that point. Which is sort of a shame since Polish Stooge Ivan makes me laugh.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

The coolest looking Golden Era tights belongs the Road Warriors. Simple, but eye catching.