The Final Fantasy Series

[Kahran Ramsus]

What did you think of IV, Kahran? I think you mentioned them all except that one.

I liked IV, but in terms of the series as a whole there are just others that are more notable. It was my jumping on point for the series so it does hold a certain nostalgia value. My main problem is that it isn't really unique anymore, aside from the 5 Man parties. Everything it did, VI (or IX) did better. The DS remake is a bit better. Of all the games that needed an update, IV was at the top of the list. Part of the problem for me is that IV was immediately followed by V, VI & Chrono Trigger, three of the best RPGs ever made.

I didn't mention VII either, which I have similar feelings about. Like IV, I was awed by it at the time, but it doesn't hold up as well as some of the others in the series. I've been replaying it on the PSP recently and I think the graphics really get in the way at times. It is probably the crummiest looking game in the series now that FFI, II & III have had overhauls and it really gets in the way at times when it is hard to see what is going on. I find it incredible how much the technology improved by VIII, only a couple of years later and on the same platform. It is still fun, which is more than I can say for VIII, but there are simply better ones. I replayed FFVI a couple of years ago when it came out for the GameBoy Advance, and it was like I was playing it for the first time. That's the difference between the two games.

Final Fantasy VIII's soundtrack was the game's strong suit.

Agreed. I think it has arguably the best soundtrack in the series, at least post-SNES. The problem with VIII is the lackluster story and broken gameplay.

 

[Psycho Penguin]

The problem with 5 and 6, compared to 4, is how easily you can break 5 and 6. 4 is pretty much "here's your party, here's what they have, you figure out what to do", while 5 and 6 have WAY more customization. That and 4 being way more focused on story than 5 are the games' main differences.

 

[Czech]

V isn't about the story, it's just about the job system, basically. The fun of it is mixing and matching your characters' jobs. Any sort of plot is incidental.

 

[Star Ocean 2]

4 is ridiculous. Everybody dies and then comes back an hour later.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The problem with 5 and 6, compared to 4, is how easily you can break 5 and 6. 4 is pretty much "here's your party, here's what they have, you figure out what to do", while 5 and 6 have WAY more customization. That and 4 being way more focused on story than 5 are the games' main differences.

I wouldn't exactly call it is easy. It takes so much time and effort (without cheating) to make a team of gods in V & VI that I find it easier just to play the game normally.

4 is ridiculous. Everybody dies and then comes back an hour later.

I didn't like that either. The only one where it works is with Rydia, who's 'death' was ambiguous enough that nobody would believe she was really dead.

 

[Psycho Penguin]

It's not so challenging to break V and VI. There's only certain job abilities and equipment setups you need in order to do it in 5, and just a few magic spells and relics in 6.

 

[Jingus]

I can't speak for V, but in VI the game-breakers are obscure enough that most people would never discover them on their first time playing the game. Vanish/Doom is the main one, but since Doom never works on any enemy worth trying it on in the real game, it's not the kind of thing that your average gamer would stumble over. Genji Glove/Offering can't happen unless you find the underground castle, which is iffy by itself, and you still have to have good weapons and a character at a reasonably high level to get anything worthwhile out of it. The river automatic level-up trick takes a turbo controller and the wit to figure it out in the first place. What others are there? Aside from something really obscure like Merton + Absorb Fire, no other major gamebreakers come to mind.

4 is ridiculous. Everybody dies and then comes back an hour later.

I didn't like that either. The only one where it works is with Rydia, who's 'death' was ambiguous enough that nobody would believe she was really dead.

I enjoyed it, just because at the time I'd never really played an RPG which killed off main characters like that. Especially that middle part where you lost Rydia and then the twins and then Tellah and then Yang and then Cid... that fucker was rapidly going towards "Most Depressing Game of All Time" territory. It wasn't until after you thought they were all dead that all of them but Tellah got magically resurrected.

Besides, if there's any complaints about IV, there's one that should be obvious: there's simply no point in levelling up most of the characters past simply being able to beat their areas of the game. With folks constantly leaving your party and either returning at a different level or not returning at all, it makes all of your gains up to that point fairly meaningless. Hell, until Cecil turns into a paladin, you don't have a single person in your party who will still be there at the end.

 

[Czech]

Yeah, it's too linear compared to VI. The only reason to putz around gaining levels and world-touring in FF4 is to protract the FuSoYa experience as long as you can, because it's not every day you get to play a game with a guy named FuSoYa.

Secret of Mana was almost perfect for aimlessly wandering owing to the spectacular music, neat graphics, and unorthodox interface for an RPG. (Best was to use a friend's saved file so that you already had all the spells and weapon levels and stuff.) Part of what helped in that regard was that I owned the strategy guide for Final Fantasy III (the days before I could just download .txt files from RPGamer or GameFaqs) but owned no such guide for Secret of Mana, so I had no maps or no idea what to do next. Now that's the way to play a game.

 

[JHawk]

The sad thing is I've gotten to the final fight of VIII at least three times and can't seem to beat it, so I still don't know it ends.

And I honestly don't even know that I want to find out.

Sad, huh? Four discs of play and I don't care enough to find out the ending.

 

[Cerebus The Aardvark]

Vanish/Doom is the main one, but since Doom never works on any enemy worth trying it on in the real game, it's not the kind of thing that your average gamer would stumble over. Genji Glove/Offering can't happen unless you find the underground castle, which is iffy by itself, and you still have to have good weapons and a character at a reasonably high level to get anything worthwhile out of it.

Gem Box + Economizer is way more idiotic than either of those. The combination of those two might be the most ridiculous thing in any FF game ever. Double Ultima for 2 MP seems ok, amirite? I found that and Genji Glove + Offering on my first playthrough of the game, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing; I thought there was some glitch in the game, honestly.

At least in X for the ridiculous weapons/armor you had to work for it, not just randomly find them.

 

[Smues]

If we're discussing game breaking I think the discussion starts and ends with Knights of the Round Table in FFVII. You have to earn it, no doubt, but once you get it everything but the emerald and ruby weapons will bend over for you and take it hard.

And of course there's the limit breaks in FFVIII, which by themselves aren't over powered, it's the fact that all you have to do is get your HP low and you can limit break every round. Junction 100 ultima's to get squall's strength maxed out, and you'll destroy most everything with one limit break, and you can just keep them coming every round.

I'm drawing a blank on anything like that from FFIX. Was there anything?

 

[Jingus]

The only reason to putz around gaining levels and world-touring in FF4 is to protract the FuSoYa experience as long as you can, because it's not every day you get to play a game with a guy named FuSoYa.

You can't even do that, unless you just really like touring the moon. As soon as you come back to earth, you're tossed into the Giant of Babil, and lose Fusoya at the end of that. The only thing he's any good for is having an extra badass spellcaster when you go into Bahumet's cave.

Gem Box + Economizer is way more idiotic than either of those. The combination of those two might be the most ridiculous thing in any FF game ever. Double Ultima for 2 MP seems ok, amirite?

It's still only something that one character at a time can use, and it'll still take a few rounds to beat the toughest bosses with it. The other three party members combined might actually be doing more damage per round. The only time it comes in particularly handy is if you run into a large group of strong enemies and you want to kill them all in one shot. Otherwise it really doesn't do anything that the other top-shelf special attacks can't do by themselves. Plus I'd say for something to be a real "game breaker" it needs to be at least moderately easy to get, and finding the gem box and the economizer and the Ultima magicite (as well as not being ignorant and having Ultima turned into a sword) and then have at least one character learn the spell at its slow-ass 1% rate. All that takes some time and effort.

If we're discussing game breaking I think the discussion starts and ends with Knights of the Round Table in FFVII. You have to earn it, no doubt, but once you get it everything but the emerald and ruby weapons will bend over for you and take it hard.

And if you try that shit on the ruby or emerald weapon, they'll bend you over and shove all 13 knights up your ass. So I wouldn't call it a game-breaker. Also, you've got to discover the island while flying around in your airship, figure out that you need a Gold Chocobo to reach it, and then go breed said chocobo. It takes for-freaking-ever. Once again, if it's hard to do, I don't think it should be called a gamebreaker.

I'm drawing a blank on anything like that from FFIX. Was there anything?

Not that I recall, unless you just spent forever playing the minigames and found the secret synth shop which was hidden in the last dungeon anyway.

 

[Smues]

Just Ruby weapon would shove the knights back up your ass (by casting ultima I think?). Emerald you could KOTR to death, you just needed to make sure you had the underwater materia or the time limit would get you.

 

[Czech]

Vanish/Doom is the main one, but since Doom never works on any enemy worth trying it on in the real game, it's not the kind of thing that your average gamer would stumble over. Genji Glove/Offering can't happen unless you find the underground castle, which is iffy by itself, and you still have to have good weapons and a character at a reasonably high level to get anything worthwhile out of it.

Gem Box + Economizer is way more idiotic than either of those. The combination of those two might be the most ridiculous thing in any FF game ever. Double Ultima for 2 MP seems ok, amirite? I found that and Genji Glove + Offering on my first playthrough of the game, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing; I thought there was some glitch in the game, honestly.

At least in X for the ridiculous weapons/armor you had to work for it, not just randomly find them.

I don't believe the Gem Box nor Economizer were "randomly found" like in any old treasure chest (yarrrgh). Pretty sure you had to wager some things at the Colosseum and stuff like that to get them. It was some sort of situation where you most certainly earned the privilege of 1 MP spellcasting for the home stretch.

 

[oldskool]

Gem Box was a one-off item from....the top of the Tower of Kefka, I want to say, but that might be wrong.

The Economizer was something you could win or steal from certain enemies, though.

And if you want a gamebreaker, how about Gogo & Mimic? You could have somebody else cast 2xUltima for 2MP, and then have Gogo repeat the process for free. 4 Ultimas, 2MP.

 

[Sabre]

God i remember marking for finally getting KOTR and marking for its stupidly long fmv

 

[Jingus]

Gem Box was a one-off item from....the top of the Tower of Kefka, I want to say, but that might be wrong.

Yeah, unless there was some wacky way you could get it in the colisseum, the Gem Box could only be found at the top of the Cult of Kefka tower. The tower itself was a mean bastard if you didn't use the Moogle Charm, and the boss at the top was damn near impossible. First you had to beat him once, which wasn't easy, just to find out that he automatically killed your whole party at the end of the battle. Then you had to figure out a way around that, of which there were only three: one was using the Palidor esper and timing it perfectly enough that at least one of your guys was still in the air when it cast Ultima. The second was to use Life 3, but to get that you first had to go through the entire lava cave, which was a pain in the ass. (A necessary pain in the ass, since you also couldn't get Ultima until after that, but still a pain.) The final and most simple way was to just keep nailing him with Rasp until he ran out of magic points and couldn't cast this spell, but this quite literally took hours, and you had to keep all your characters healthy the whole time (and remember, if you were using Wall Rings, and you probably were, you couldn't cast cure spells on yourself). So anyone who could actually get past that bastard alive and well was already at a high enough level to win the game, and thus not really in need of any game breakage.

The Economizer was something you could win or steal from certain enemies, though.

The only one I remember getting it from was the Brachiosaur. Did you ever meet one of those motherfuckers? Unless you Vanish/Doomed it, the only way you could beat that cocksucker was if, once again, you were already pretty much strong enough to win the game anyway.

And if you want a gamebreaker, how about Gogo & Mimic? You could have somebody else cast 2xUltima for 2MP, and then have Gogo repeat the process for free. 4 Ultimas, 2MP.

Lots of people didn't realize it, but Gogo was possibly the best all-around character in the game. Yeah, his stats kinda sucked (unless you levelled him up a bunch) and he couldn't equip the good armor and weapons (unless you used the Merit Award), but he could quite literally do anything you wanted him to. His customizable menu let you adapt him to be whatever you wanted and use any special technique. Even better, he didn't have to learn any of this stuff, not even spells; he automatically comes equipped knowing everything your other characters already have. Don't let that blind you to how good his Mimic attack could be as well; he could copy and recycle stuff you normally couldn't do more than once, like using a particular Esper in combat.

 

[Sabre]

Since its sort of Final Fantasy related, Kingdom Hearts anyone?

 

[JHawk]

Kingdom Hearts kicks ass.

That is all.

 

[Black Lushus]

Jingus is right, Brachiosaur up in the Veldt was who you stole that from.

Also, wasn't there some item you could only get by letting the Zone Eater, also in the Veldt, swallow your whole team? I think it took you to a small dungeon? Was that how you got GoGo? shit, I can't remember, been too long!

I remember resetting my Playstation about 50 times trying to breed a goddamn Gold Chocobo.

 

[Edwin]

I was just talking about the Economizer the other day. One lazy Saturday afternoon at age 12, I spent about 4 hours in that forest until one of them popped up. Sheer ridiculous jubilation upon getting that. I think the only other way to get it was to bet the Gem Box, and there was no way to get another Gem Box without glitching the game.

The Zone Eater was on Triangle Island, and yeah, Gogo was inside.

Also, was there any clue in the game that you could uncurse the Cursed Shield, or did we all just get that from the guides? I loved the Illumina and so I tended to turn the Ragnarok magicite into the sword, but the 255 battles with the Cursed Shield to make it the Paladin Shield so I could learn Ultima was up there with chocobo breeding as far as Stupid Final Fantasy Grinding goes.

 

[Cerebus The Aardvark]

Also, was there any clue in the game that you could uncurse the Cursed Shield, or did we all just get that from the guides? I loved the Illumina and so I tended to turn the Ragnarok magicite into the sword, but the 255 battles with the Cursed Shield to make it the Paladin Shield so I could learn Ultima was up there with chocobo breeding as far as Stupid Final Fantasy Grinding goes.

I'd rather do both than dodge 200 bolts of lightning...

Re: Gem Box + Economizer, I haven't played the game since probably 1996, so I couldn't remember where the items were. Now I remember the Brachiosaurs, because that was where I went to level up. I also consider stuff you get via stealing as "randomly found", but that's neither here nor there.

I also have no memory of any boss in that entire game being difficult. That was what initially soured me about the game, IIRC: I felt it was too easy. I suck at games now, so I might find it more difficult if I played it again. I don't pay attention to such things: were 3-6 ever ported to PlayStation at all? If so, what were the names of the compilations?

 

[Black Lushus]

Final Fantasy Anthology, 5 and 6....this was the last time I played 6, back in like 99, despite having the ROM for about 5 years now.

Final Fantasy Chronicles, 4 and Chrono Trigger

 

[Czech]

I also have no memory of any boss in that entire game being difficult. That was what initially soured me about the game, IIRC: I felt it was too easy. I suck at games now, so I might find it more difficult if I played it again. I don't pay attention to such things: were 3-6 ever ported to PlayStation at all? If so, what were the names of the compilations?

The one guy at the top of the Fanatics' Tower was pretty hard. There were some other tough ones in the World of Ruin. The Intangir was a pain in the ass but that was an optional side-quest. I think the bosses seemed easier than they really were because we Final Fantasied hard in our youth and were always several levels ahead of the curve. I know I was. The Lete River leveling made Locke totally worthless for long periods of time, though, since he'd be left 20some levels behind. It's like me where I have huge calves and floppy feeble arms.

I think 5 and 6 came over as Anthology, then 4 (original cut) and Chrono Trigger as Chronicles? I own neither.

 

[Cerebus The Aardvark]

Final Fantasy Anthology, 5 and 6....this was the last time I played 6, back in like 99, despite having the ROM for about 5 years now.

Final Fantasy Chronicles, 4 and Chrono Trigger

Thanks. Might have to get them, as it has been ages since I played any of those.

Chrono Trigger is another one of those games I don't get the glassy-eyed adoration for. It was a fine game, but not on the level many seem to put it.

So, FF3 has not been ported to PS in any form...correct?

 

[Czech]

Don't think so. Who cares? Didn't the Japanese 2 and 3 kinda suck?

Chrono Trigger wasn't all that great, you're right. I mean, it wasn't BAD like Secret of Evermore was bad, but it was really just a souped-up Secret of Mana without the cloyingly bright color palettes. Both protagonists even have the same goofy-ass hair. Music was fair. Storyline was okay, I think, but having Crono be a mute was kind of stupid. I suppose the 20+ endings thing was pretty groundbreaking for 1995, but the only value that has for me is as a board meme here. Chrono Trigger was also like $75 and $70 USED from shitty-ass FuncoLand, so I hardly had a chance to sink my teeth into it till I got emulators in 2001, relying till then on borrowing friends' copies.

 

[Cerebus The Aardvark]

Don't think so. Who cares? Didn't the Japanese 2 and 3 kinda suck?

Sort of, but I have only played 3 once, and wouldn't mind having the complete run. I was just wondering.

 

[Haws Bah Gawd]

Just thought I'd contribute my 2 cents.

Final Fantasy X is probably my favorite game of all time. Everything (with the exception of the forced laughing on the boat scene) is perfect. The music, the graphics (which still look good, today), battle system, you name it. This is a classic. As many times as I've played through this game, I've only even done the lightning challenge once. This game has a pathetically-sad ending. I too nearly choke up watching the end. Fuck you Final Fantasy X-2 for destroying a perfect and appropriate ending!

Final Fantasy VII was the first RPG I ever played, so it holds a special place with me even if it hasn't aged too well. FFVII AC was a decent enough film, even if it took FOREVER to be released stateside. The metal remix of One Winged Angel was a great track for the film.

Fuck Final Fantasy VIII. It had phenomenal cut scenes, but I never got into the story, draw system, or even the junctioning. I did get a kick out of getting Ultima, junctioning it to your weapon, and being able to pretty much slaughter anything the game put in front of you. I too agree that Squaresoft probably knew they fucked up with this game a little, hence why the only rpomotional material you ever really saw was the ballroom scene or the opening cinematic between Seifer and Squall.

 

[vivisectvi]

The sad thing is I've gotten to the final fight of VIII at least three times and can't seem to beat it, so I still don't know it ends.

And I honestly don't even know that I want to find out.

Sad, huh? Four discs of play and I don't care enough to find out the ending.

This is the exact same situation I am/was in with FF8.

 

[vivisectvi]

Chrono Trigger is another one of those games I don't get the glassy-eyed adoration for. It was a fine game, but not on the level many seem to put it.

CT was a great game and is up there with the better FF games, IMO. It had the awesome (but not confusing) time-travel storyline, characters you could get into and a great musical score. The gameplay was standard RPG stuff but added in Tech's, which I thought were really bad ass at the time, especially the Duos and Triples.