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The Iron Claw

Valeyard

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We won't get Mike being traumatized by his brothers buying him a hooker when he was a teenager or Fritz ordering David Manning to sign David's autograph on stuff after he died.

Chris has to be in it because in so many ways his story is the most tragic. I'm very curious now because him not being featured probably means someone with no name value gets a chance to break out.
 

BUTT

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From what Meltzer wrote months ago it sounds like Chris isn’t in it.

We have some info on the Von Erich movie “Iron Claw,” from a pre-screening of the movie this past week. The movie was largely finished although some things still had to be finalized and added and based on feedback from the screening, things also could change. The basic thing is the movie starts with a black-and-white scene of the wrestler Fritz Von Erich, using the Iron claw as a finisher, but it quickly moves to 1979, with Fritz president over breakfast with Kevin (22), David (21), Kerry (19) and Mike (15). It covers Kevin meeting Pam, his current wife of 43 years, at that time. The storyline is that Kerry was training for the 1980 Olympics but then the U.S. boycotted the Olympics and his father wanted him to wrestle. Kerry set the discus record for high school in the state of Texas and had a successful freshman year at the University of Houston, but he was far from Olympic level, and actually started pro wrestling at the age of 18 while still a high school senior. They cover Kevin & Kerry & David feuding with the Freebirds, doing cocaine and hints of steroids. The story is Kevin is mad because David is the one being groomed for the world title and promoted ahead of him. Then David died, and in the movie the death is said to be from a ruptured intestine. As noted, there have been countless contradictory stories given about David’s death, but he was sick the week before leaving for Japan, went to Ribera Steakhouse with Bill Irwin on his first night in Japan after arriving. I’ve seen photos of David from the night before his death and he looked to have partied a lot. The next day, when he didn’t arrive for the bus for the first show of a tour, they broke into his room and found him dead, and the wrestlers involved cleaned up the room from drugs before the authorities arrived. It was said that his death was due to enteritis, an intestinal inflammation, but Irv Muchnick, who covered the story closely and others had claimed a drug overdose. The family said they would send Muchnick (Sam’s nephew) a copy of the death certificate but Muchnick never received a copy. Kevin was portrayed as wanting the match with Ric Flair that was scheduled for David but they did a coin flip and Kerry was picked. In reality, Kerry was the much bigger star at that point in time. Evidently the guy who plays Flair (Aaron Dean Eisenburg) and tries to do a Flair promo was terrible. The movie is largely about Kevin as the focal point, living through the deaths of all his brothers. There appear to have been factual issues such as Kevin selling the company to Jerry Jarrett (they were actually partners before the Von Erichs, Kevin & Kerry, as Fritz had left the company to them and had gotten out of the wrestling business by this time, forced Jarrett out) and took it back over and it then when heavily into debt and out of business. It ends with Ross & Marshall, Kevin’s sons, wanting to be pro wrestlers. The movie makes all the deaths out to be flukes, basically the wrestling magazine Von Erich curse story. They don’t deal with addiction, the pressures of fame or anything like that. The report we got was the production was good, the script wasn’t that good, the verbiage is clunky and at times corny. The acting was good in some cases, but the guy who played Fritz (Holt McCallany) wasn’t good, the guy who played Flair was said to be embarrassing like people openly laughed when he cut a promo. The actors who played David (Harris Dickinson) and Mike (Stanley Simons) were good. MJF played Lance Von Erich, but it was a small part and I don’t think he had any lines. Aside from MJF, current pro wrestlers with listed roles were Ryan Nemeth as Gino Hernandez and Chavo Guerrero Jr., as The Sheik Ed Farhat (likely footage as a rival of Fritz since The Sheik never came to Texas to feud with the kids). Chris Von Erich, the youngest brother, who also wrestled and committed suicide at the age of 21, may never have even been mentioned. Overall it was said to be better than Ready to Rumble and worse than The Wrestler, but I think the vast majority of movies made would fit into that category. The first half was said to be fun and the second half tried to be serious but probably needs to be edited differently. The overall report was that it was disappointing in that there’s many ways or angles they could take to tell the Von Erich story, and they chose a safe, boring one that doesn’t effectively communicate or commit to anything
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
The fact that Kevin Von Erich and his sons have endorsed the movie tells me it might not be the sleaze fest that @BruiserBrody was hoping for.
Kevin demanded thousands of dollars to appear at a benefit show for his nieces after Kerry passed away.

He's now using the movie to promote a one man road show.

Carny gonna carny.
 

Valeyard

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Big Daddy Zac Efron should not.
 

Brocklock

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I was reading an article about him earlier and Jeremy Allen White totally should've been the young Wonka instead of Chalamet. He looks a lot like Gene Wilder.

But, also he's like 5'5 and the star of a tv show that keeps getting bigger, so he's not getting in the ring.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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@BruiserBrody is boycotting the movie once he finds out a Lance Von Erich subplot was cut.
 

909

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The movie had to be re-edited to make Fritz more abusive, so that might have something to do with it.
 

Valeyard

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I mean, Lance needs at most ten minutes max. Just needs to be proposed to anger the boys, suck in the ring, and leave in disgrace. He's a montage.
 

Brocklock

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I still can't see it topping The Wrestler for me, but if it does I'll be pleasantly surprised. I just don't think it will have anything that matches Randy The Ram working at the deli, shooting the shit with the customers. Looks like Meltz, or whoever saw the early screening, and said that it's not an oscar caliber movie might be wrong.
 

Valeyard

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This is the movie I've waited most of my life thinking would never get made, and tried to write myself a bunch of times, so I'm very interested and probably have very high expectations. The Wrestler I had zero expectations for and it became one of my legitimate favorite movies. I'm just excited.
 

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I'm heading to it tomorrow night for some early release screening.....been really going down the WCCW/Von Erich rabbit role this week in trying to find as many docs as I can about the downfall of the company and family. That almost 3 hour doc that I believe was produced well before the pretty underwhelming WWE doc was a very interesting one.
 

RedJed

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So hit the movie up in a Dolby theater format last night, the sounds and visuals were excellent and there is a whole lot of authentic feeling nostalgia in this one. Unfortunately, I felt like there was some disconnect a bit narrative wise. You almost have to know ahead of time a bit of backstory on the family and World Class to make sense of the various characters they introduce very quickly and without much background. Timelines weren't properly explained so you move from David throwing up before he goes to Japan and then we skip David's journey there completely and next scene is right to Fritz sitting at a table despondent upon learning that he passed. Those transitions weren't smooth and I could see those who weren't aware of all this to be a bit confused.

Some of the casting worked, some didn't. Zac Efron did well in the role, but I just couldn't connect him to Kevin for some reason, maybe since he was so short and thickly jacked up instead of a skinny lanky yet built well dude. On a cosmetic level he looked more like Kerry, and I almost wonder if him and Jeremy Allen White should have switched roles as Kevin and Kerry to be honest as I had a bit of a hard time with White's Kerry performance. To me the real standout performance was who played Mike, he did really well. Also the actor who played Fritz really did great with it.

I won't get into spoiler territory too deep but there was some scenes that were famously referenced in the history that was done here...like
Mike and Kevin's press conference after Mike's hospitalization. Then there was lots of scenes that I assume were true-ish but never really were talked about much in the Von Erich history that I recall. Then some stuff that historically was part of things was not even covered....such as Fritz's brain cancer/death, and Chris in fact was fully and completely not a part of this film. No mention, no reference, nothing.

A main theme certainly covered was Fritz's heavy handedness and manufacturing of a competitiveness between all of the brothers, more or less the narrative kinda blamed Fritz for how everything transpired.

I think I will need to see it again to see if its actually the best pro wrestling related movie ever (I feel like The Wrestler still holds that nod) but this was still pretty good, right up there as top three and the tone of this was right on point. Somber, dark, kinda depressing, and bleak in most parts. I just had issue with some of the flow of the story and how things jumped from timeline to another one way more in the future without much explanation. And as I said some of the casting was off. The side characters were casted similar to how Young Rock had cast....just strange picks in some cases. Particularly the Flair guy....holy shit, all those rumors had to be true about that one as in fact they did keep some wooos in the film and he very clearly could not adequately woooo well. MJF did just have a so very brief scene in the ring as Lance as that was it.
 
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Brocklock

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Reading some thoughts on reddit and twitter and the consensus seems to be that the movie works 90% of the time. Big Daddy Zac Efron is getting a lot of acclaim with lots of people saying he deserves a nomination. Holt McCallany as Fritz is also getting major praise. The only negative aspect that everyone seems to be in agreement of is the guy playing Flair being horrible.

It sounds like they nail it for the most part and I'm so excited. I might go to theaters to see this if it comes here.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Genuinely pleasantly surprised it’s playing at most if not all of the suburban multiplexes here. I thought I was going to have to schlep into Portland to see it.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
So much that I can nitpick about:

1. The ropes were wrong (all warped)
2. The ringposts were rectangular (Highspots-style rings)
3. Kevin didn't start wrestling barefoot until years after David debuted (and certainly not in David's first match)
4. They didn't start on ESPN that early
5. Don't recall Michael Hayes wearing long tights that early
6. Kerry definitely didn't lose his foot in the motorcycle wreck right after winning the NWA belt
7. Ed Farhat wasn't bald
8. Other than the Apter mags (starting late 80s), nobody ever referred to a promotion or territory as a "federation" (other than a promotion with the word "Federation" in their name)
9. The NWA logo was odd
10. They introduced the red mat on the Sportatorium way too early (that was actually a Global innovation)
11. MOTHERFUCKING CHRIS!!!!!!
12. Totally left out Kerry's drug bust and probable prison time being a factor in his suicide
13. No Brody flushing David's pills down the toilet (though that might've been a legal clearance issue)

And I could go on and on about specific timeline issues and complain about Aaron Dean Eisenberg's Ric Flair being off and about the boys' heights and ages not feeling right at points, and so on and so on and so on, but...

...Just shutting my "wrestling brain" off and watching it as a film, I thought it was quite good. The main performances (Kevin, Kerry, David, Fritz, Doris, Mike, and Pam) were absolutely outstanding. Not a misfire among the leads and main support.

The wrestling scenes were fucking great. I thought Kevin Anton basically captured the essence of Harley. The guy playing Mercer was good. James Beard was spot-on. Brody, Gino, and Lance were good in their five seconds apiece onscreen. There was sort of an Akbar "cameo." And as p-man said, the brief scene with Jerry Jarrett was downright eery. It looked and sounded like the real Jerry.

Lots of little Easter eggs and nuggets of fan service. It's clear it was a love letter to territory wrestling and that Durkin really is "one of us."

Eisenberg wasn't "bad." He's been great in other roles and has a very unique charisma. I'm just not sure he was right to play Ric Flair. But who the fuck is? Who the fuck is really right to play any of these guys? But at some point, you just gotta judge it for what it is.

And what it is is a mostly entertaining, well-crafted film.
Quality nitpicking beyond even what I'll manage whenever I see this in 2024.
From Kamala's friends at Wrestling Classics BTW
 

Valeyard

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That ring parts rate higher than Chris tells me how seriously to take that.
 

Brocklock

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This got an A- cinemascore (Aquaman 2 got a B for reference) which is a surprise for such a depressing story. The A- is the highest score an A24 film has ever received. It also has a great audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. Maybe there's a chance it could break out and be a surprise hit. I don't think on the level of Everything, Everywhere All At Once last year, but maybe it could make like 60 million domestic or something. The budget is small at 15 million.
 
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Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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I’d say it’s like a ***/B- type movie. It is definitely great in moments. End got me teary eyed and the first scene outside the Sportatorium is damn near breathtaking , well acted for the most part. The Mike press conference was a great scene. Even the guy who plays Flair isn’t *that* bad, he’s just bad at being Ric Flair which might be even worse. Everyone should know how to “Woo” at this point.

Timeline feels muddled and scattershot. Turning my wrestling fan brain off, it doesn’t feel easy to follow even as a casual viewer. I feel like the plot line for Kerry is almost as bad as excluding Chris.
Portraying him as a loner that just had nothing to live for feels like less dramatically compelling than what actually happened. Also sonuvabitch…the movie omitted Lacey Von Erich too.


Laughing at the Wrestling Classics guy saying James Beard was spot on cause it WAS the actual James Beard playing himself.

I know it’s a downbeat story but this movie dragged in the middle after the deaths started. My friend started sawing logs at a few points.


also for @BruiserBrody, there is a scene where David Von Erich is trying to pull his pud in the shower while Mike pounds the door cause he has to shit.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
"iT's a mOvIe, nOt a DoCUMentarY"

Hollywood is pretty consistent with not covering the real stories of these realities.

I'm blanking on one of the main culprits I like to cite, but stuff like Capt Phillips (Phillips was actually really at fault and not exactly heroic- IIRC one of the guys who eluded capture was actually the hero) and Scully or whatever the miracle plane landing in the water movie was called (They made up the entire board meeting or whatever that was trying to condemn his actions for the sake of cinema narrative. Nothing like that happened IIRC.

Ugh, I'm big mad at my brain blanking on this. Probably WW2 movie related. ("Well...they were in Europe....we made up everything else")
 

Epic for the Summer

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I thought this was pretty good and pretty heartbreaking overall. I marked out for Jerry Jarrett. The guy playing Ric was HILARIOUS. As much as I enjoyed JAW as Kerry, my personal favorite performance might have been Holt as Fritz.

I wouldn't rank it above the Wrestler but this was a solid film that will hopefully get Hollywood to back more stories of the squared circle.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Sean Durkin obviously seems like he greatly admires the Von Erichs. You get very little of the scandals and sleaze. Honestly, this barely felt like an R rated movie.

Also the way that the movie treats kayfabe is really bizarre. Outside of one brief scene towards the beginning where you see Kevin & David laying out a match with Bruiser Brody and Gino Hernandez, it treats pro wrestling as if its real, which is honestly just ridiculous considering it's an A24 prestige movie.
 

Epic for the Summer

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I noticed that too. You get another glimpse of it after the Kevin/Flair match when Ric asks to get shitfaced with them but overall, it's treated like a legit sport.
 
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