"What if's" of sports history

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Another one...Danny Ainge nearly traded Paul Pierce to the New Orleans Hornets for the #4 pick in the 2005 NBA Draft, which they would've used to pick Chris Paul (as the Hornets did IRL). Trade was far enough down the road that Jackie MacMullen said the Boston Globe had two covers for sports page printed up for day after the '05 draft (one with Chris Paul and the new Boston Celtics and one with Paul Pierce talking about his future with team)

With Celtics going into straight rebuilding mode, it definitely alters the course of late '00s NBA. Presumably, Celtics would practice patience with young core and that means KG and Ray Allen probably go elsewhere? Does KG end up with the Lakers instead of the Celtics? Or maybe he ends up on the Suns and the Seven Seconds or Less team actually wins a 'ship?

I doubt they win a 'ship but is the Chris Paul-Big Al duo good enough to make any noise and a perennial contender in the East?

I know one thing, it's a blessing for Paul Pierce's career that this didn't happen. As great as he was, it just seems like him on the late '00s Hornets would be a bad fit. I assume he ends up in same category as Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter who are known as unlikable hothead '00s stars who couldn't win anything in the end.

 

[alfdogg]

Yeah I think you have to assume no KG or Ray if Chris Paul is there instead of the veteran Pierce. Aside from 2002 the Celtics had basically been irrelevant since Larry Bird retired, and without those deals you have to wonder how long of a leash CP, Doc Rivers or Ainge himself for that matter would get. Also of note, before CP was traded to the Clippers in 2011 he told the Celtics that he wouldn't re-sign if he was traded there, so it's questionable whether he stays long term, as well. (He also told the Warriors the same thing, which is another interesting what-if.)

KG probably does end up with the Lakers (an article about this actually came up within the last week on one of my news feeds somewhere that this was close to happening), but obviously they have to give up a lot more to get him than Pau Gasol, so who knows if they end up having the depth to be much better than they had been at the time. I can't see KG and D'Antoni being a good fit, however.

I think Vince and T-Mac are looked upon more fondly than Pierce, but those two don't have the stench of Pierce's shitty ESPN analyst tenure. Maybe that doesn't happen though if he doesn't win that chip with the Celtics

 

[alfdogg]

Like The Knicks would be psyched to have all of the guys the Lakers threw away the last 5 or 6 years (and them overpaying Julius Randle kind of proves that)

This post hasn't aged very well. Sorry Kamala

On second thought maybe it has

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

yeah, there’s no way that Chris Paul stays in Boston long term. Him and Big Al maybe win a few playoff series but Idk if Celtics regain their status as a great franchise without landing KG. Before 2007, jury was still out on whether or not, Ainge & Doc era was just as bad as the Rick Pitino or ML Carr eras.

With no Big 3 around, I wonder if that alters the trajectory of LeBron’s first run in Cleveland. Maybe the mid ‘00s Pistons make another Finals?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Saw this pop up in the timeline for some reason.

What if Charles Barkley does end up traded to the LA Lakers instead of the Phoenix Suns in 1992? Trade was allegedly Elden Campbell and James Worthy for Barkley and Ron Anderson.

Interesting to imagine Charles Barkley trying to replace Magic Johnson as the face of the Lakers but Idk---it's probably best for his legacy that he ended up in Phoenix. Idk if he makes an NBA Finals appearance with the mid '90s Lakers. It's probably a similar situation to what he had with the Sixers. Perennial playoff appearances but out in the first or second round. In this scenario though, the Lakers don't bottom out so alters trajectory of Kobe and Shaq years.

We probably missed out on some good stories of Chuck hooking up with starlets and getting into barroom brawls with JCVD tho.

cc @909

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Here's one for the NBA folks... in re-watching the 30 For 30 This Magic Moment...

How does the NBA change if the Charlotte Hornets got the 1st pick in the '92-'93 NBA Draft and take Shaquille O'Neal? Then let's say in a bit of a shocker, Orlando takes Christian Laettner while Minnesota gets Alonzo Mourning.

Charlotte was already pretty solid: Larry Johnson, Kendall Gill, Muggsy Bogues, and Dell Curry off the bench. Do they get deeper in the playoffs (they'd lose the Semi-Finals to the NY Knicks that year)? Do they challenge for an NBA Title faster than Orlando did? Does Shaq still leave Charlotte for the Lakers if they do win an NBA Title?

 

[alfdogg]

Shaq supposedly threatened to sit out the season if Minnesota drafted him. I can't see him being too crazy about going to Charlotte either.

That aside, the Magic following up Shaq with getting Penny Hardaway the next season is what really put them on the road to being a title threat. Obviously they're not in the lottery in Charlotte so that isn't happening, and I can't see that supporting cast getting him as far as the Magic went.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I think Shaq leaves after a few years regardless. His film & music aspirations were going to land him in Hollywood sooner rather than later. Also don't forget the Hornets had one of the worst non Donald Sterling owners of all time in George Shinn.

However, Hornets roster was a bit more experienced than Magic's so Shaq might have enjoyed more immediate success. Remember the '93 Hornets already made the Conference Semi-Finals. Is Shaq enough of an upgrade over 'Zo that the Hornets are able to get past the Knicks and Bulls?

Conspiracy Kamala but I'm fairly strongly convinced that the 1993 NBA Draft Lottery was rigged. Biggest star since Jordan gets drafted to an expansion franchise then they get the #1 pick the next year despite just barely missing the playoffs? It just seems too convenient to me.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

With all of the KD drama, it got me wondering. What if in the Summer of 2016, KD decided "Ykw? We came really close and I think we can beat Golden State. I'll stay in OKC." instead of joining the Warriors? Al Horford was set to sign with OKC assuming KD & Russ stayed. Is that big three good enough to get past the Warriors in the 2017 NBA Playoffs?

 

[Gert]

I think it still would have been tough for them, but maybe. I'm guessing GSW would have resigned Harrison Barnes (although we the cap space they had for KD), they may have signed another guy with the space if Barnes was willing to wait a few days to sign a deal.

OKC's problem against the Warriors was they couldn't seem to find a 3 and D guy who could actually make the 3's when they needed to.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

And I think even if KD resigns, it might only be one season before they have to ponder breaking up the core again. And KD isn't the type who necessarily works well with his back pushed up against the wall...that's why he joined The Warriors!

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

What if the San Francisco 49ers selected Aaron Rogers as the #1 pick in the ‘05 NFL Draft?

 

[snuffbox]

He would've lost fewer playoff games to San Francisco.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721943741387202893

A slight chance going 9-7 instead of 8-8 in 99 makes Ray Rhodes staying slightly more likely.

Ron Wolf cut a scathing promo at the presser about how Rhodes wasted a year with the Packers having a top tier QB and it was unacceptable.

The NAACP and Jesse Jackson got involved and took shots at the Packers for firing a black guy.

In reality, the Super Bowl unit of 96 was rapidly dismantled (free agency and age) and a rebuild was needed.

Wolf wasn't pulling as many starters out of the mid draft has he did in the early Holmgren era.

 

[BruiserBrody]

What if the San Francisco 49ers selected Aaron Rogers as the #1 pick in the ‘05 NFL Draft?

As fun as these are, it always changes the variables. If young Rodgers doesn't equal Alex Smith's team records, the draft changes and guys like Patrick Willis are likely not Niners, so it's hard to say.
If Rodgers develops as he did IRL (Bah Gawd, Coach Arby's Menu McCarthy, the genius is on the Niners coach roster IIRC) and has Frank Gore and that D. They can probably do some real damage.
The Packers likely then drag Favre out to his retirement one way or another. Favre's last year was a NFC title game and his WR pool was young and talented, so maybe Brett gets a Super Bowl to close things out anyway? The running game is the biggest issue with that era of Packers. Ryan Grant, Verend Moracy(Sp?), Brandon Jackson, James Starks.....

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

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I’m inclined to agree with LeBron to an extent. Wherever he signed in 2010, he was going to assemble a super team and eventually win championships. Miami just happened to be the city and DWade and Bosh happened to be his sidekicks.

He wasn’t going to try and run it back with Zydrunas Illgaukas and Boobie Gibson and see if he could get over the hump this time.

 

[BruiserBrody]

1985 NFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 1985 NFL draft is a little bit of a poor man's version of the infamous 1989 draft for the Packers.

The first 6 picks made the Pro Bowl during their career and the Packers picked next and got the solid OT Ken Ruettgers, who never made a Pro Bowl and ended his career injured when the Packers made the 96 Super Bowl.
Jim Lachey was drafted a few picks later and he went on to win Super Bowls with the Redskins and make Pro Bowls as one of the Hogs.
Al Toon would have been an interesting pick as Forrest Gregg was in the process of blowing up Bart Starr's record breaking offensive by chasing Lynn Dickey into retirement, cutting Paul Coffman and eventually trading John Jefferson and James Lofton.
But if they draft Toon, they likely pass on Sterling Sharpe a few years later.

This draft is far more interesting for the later selections in the mid rounds as Andre Reed, Kevin Greene, Jay Novachek, etc come from the abyss.
---

1986 NFL draft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

86 is a weird draft on top. The top pick was the Bills, who traded it to the Browns a year earlier so they could draft Bernie Kosar. ''
Pick 2 is Bo Jackson, who famously was pissed at Tampa Bay and refused to sign.
Pick 4 is Jim Everett by Houston, who already had Warren Moon. Wiki says the Oilers were trying to keep the Colts from drafting him. The Rams wound up trading for him after the Niners failed to make a deal.
And Tony Casillas is infamous for being one of the reasons Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones butted heads as both wanted to claim credit for working out the deal to bring him to Dallas.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Sparked by an old post from Hawk re: Paul Brown, I saw this and thought it was interesting...

"In 1963, the New York Titans of the American Football League (AFL) offered him the head coach job for $50,000 but failed."

They'd become the New York Jets and hire Weeb Ewbank (who'd eventually win the Super Bowl with Joe Namath). Does Paul Brown dominate the AFL with the Jets much like he did with the Browns in the AAFC before their migration into the NFL?

I think Brown could've turned them around coming off a 5-9 year but they didn't really have much outside of Don Maynard at WR and Larry Grantham at LB. Worth noting that FB Matt Snell came on in 1964 by virtue of the Jets having the 3rd pick in the AFL Draft (was taken in the 4th Round by the Giants in the NFL Draft that year) and I could've seen Paul Brown targeting him if he could've landed a QB elsewhere. It'd have been interesting if Brown went after Paul Warfield, also out of Ohio State, in Round 2 rather than seeing him fall to Round 4 in the AFL Draft.

The big piece would've been getting a QB as Brown struggled with Cincinnati until Ken Anderson became the starter (along with having Bill Walsh as an assistant coach). The 60s were largely bereft of top tier QB options: 1964 had Jack Concannon & Pete Beathard, 1965 had Namath, 1966 had Rick Norton, and 1967 had Steve Spurrier & Bob Griese.

 

[snuffbox]

Ken Ruettgers would've made a few Pro Bowls if most of his prime hadn't been spent on one of the worst teams in the league.