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WWF New Generation Thread III

The next best time for Hall-Hart matches was early 98 when Bret was starting in WCW. I like doing his first big match on ppv (Souled Out) with Flair and my only problem with it was it should've gone on last. That's a ppv main event. And I like that they also had suggested him into the NWO stuff, too. But that too gets squandered because so much of that got lost when it just led to NWO going on and on. And Scott Hall on the downturn by then...Bret may or not have trusted him then but Hall couldn't do it anyway. They could've had 4 star matches at Super Brawl, Uncensored, maybe even Spring Stampede and then Bret moves onto other stuff in the summer as still one of the biggest stars in wrestling.
 
I don't know if Hall could hang the same by 98, and if Bret wasn't willing to do much when was at his best there's not much hope in doing a lot with spiraling Hall.

I think Bret's also fully aware Hall is the one guy in the 90s WWF who would probably get the crowd on his side, alignment notwithstanding, because Razor was the coolest guy in the business. Like even if you turn Razor in 95 to run the match, Bret's second most popular guy in the match, and I love Bret.
 
Since Scott Hall is being discussed, I remember reading at one point that Hercules was going to be brought back in as "the one guy who crossed Razor Ramon". Was this a legit rumor or was it fantasy booking by one of our posters?
 
I can't see it happening but man that would've been fun just because they'd probably repackage him as Hatchet Hernandez or some shit.

Razor doesn't get the correct praise. Basically for a couple years he was one of the best on the roster. Not in the upper echelon of workers but absolutely one of the most complete performers. I could watch him all day.
 
Bret took that shit from Diesel but not razor because Diesel was a main eventer and year long champion by that point, so he had to. In January 1993 razor didn’t have the pull he did later. Bret did business but really cared about the art and was obviously pretty high on himself so if he didn’t have to listen to someone else’s opinion on wrestling, he wouldn’t.

He still put guys over or made them look good but he definitely did it his way when he could. The Stanley Kubrick of wrestling.
 
Iirc the rumor about someone from Razor’s past returning was something from the magazine that I don’t remember being mentioned on tv. It was probably something Russo came up with.
 
BruiserBrody said:
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Didn't listen but apparently Bossman is on here to plug his return as a special guest ref for a series of Bret vs Double J matches. He speaks on Misawa and Kobashi.

Instead of completing his comeback apparently Traylor was spooked by the Fed investigation and chose to go to WCW to not have any of that stink get on him. (According to Corny)
 
Did Taker's "Creatures of the Night" ever lead to anything? I recall Mabel (or was it Kama?) attacking one of them which might have been their last appearance.
 
On paper, with a slight tweaking, Nash should probably have worked on top. The WWF was not ahead of the game with the booking as ECW by 1994 was heading towards (as PWI put it) "The fan favorites cheat and the rulebreakers get cheered"

So Nash was organically getting pops heading into Survivor Series 94. You'd have to run the Kliq split different. Maybe Shawn accidentally super kicks Nash for a 3rd time(?) this year when the Teamsters are trying to finish off Razor...but instead of Nash going nuts on Shawn and having Jarrett, Owen and Anvil try and keep the peace, you'd have to do something like Nash getting up in a rage - conferencing with the other heels and then they each surround Shawn in each side of the ring. Razor is laying on the side of the ropes selling.
The heels take the 80s action hero movie villain approach and each try to fight Shawn 1 on 1. Anvil gets rocks. Jarrett gets tossed, Owen slips into a super kick. Nash and Shawn square up and the other 3 jump Shawn. 3 power bombs and Shawn is dead. Razor grabs a chair and clears the ring. The heels win via DQ but walk off leave Shawn in a lump. Razor stares at his long time foe. Then helps him up and they reluctantly shake hands.

Psycho Bob locks Bret in the chicken wing for an extended time like IRL. Bret uses leverage to escape because he's the Excellence of Execution. Bob runs into a desperation knee and is locked in a sharpshooter, still obviously selling his now bum shoulder. Owen gets on the apron freaking out. Bulldog wakes up from his header into the stairs. Owen and Davey exchange words on the apron before Owen gets popped and inadvertently tosses the towel. (Halloween Havoc 89 finish) Bob has been screwed by a towel being tossed in for a second time!

Bret refuses Jack Tunney's offer to postpone his MSG title defense with Diesel. (Announcers can point to losing the IC belt with a massive fever and Bret ignoring his knee injury at the Rumble 94 as past proof of the Hitman playing through pain) Bret comes in without even his jacket on as his shoulder is fucked. After a bit of cat and mouse, Bret gets his shoulder whacked and Nash tortures him for several mins. Bret gets the miracle comeback, but is literally fighting one armed. Nash powerbombs him and becomes WWF champ.
Rumble rematch can be a schmozz finish, maybe with Shawn, Razor, Kid countering Backlund, Owen, Jarrett, etc
Shawn goes coast to coast to win the Rumble.

Now either Sid comes in as Nash's hired gun to hurt Shawn and Bret or Sid makes his surprise return to big Nash's similar sized babyface foe.

Nash vs Shawn at Mania can see Nash win as a heel since LT is winning the second part of the double main event. Or you can kick off the boyhood dream a year early. Face Shawn having a big loss isn't ideal but it can build to his big win down the line.... probably not a year as you risk Lugering him.

Heel Nash has a similar problem as face Nash though as the challenger list is sort of short unless they hold off the Allied Powers and feed him Luger and Bulldog at some of the early IYH shows. A heel Nash maybe can do a another program with Razor for the World title at some point.

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Luger/Bulldog vs Owen and Yoko should have worked as a program given combination of previous main event feuds now being mixed and matched.
 
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The giant face (not to be confused with Antonio's on again/off again unseen girlfriend on Wings, the big faced girl) vs small heel dynamic was a tough way to start the reign, especially at a time business was flat all around. I like a lot of your idea to run Diesel as a heel. Also like that you're aware that a heel run would have some of the same problems (not Diesel's fault, usually) as irl.

I still think some small tweaks could've helped. Have HBK (heel) come close enough at WM 11 to push a rematch at the first IYH. That leads to Shawn's turn. Hold the singles Diesel-Sid match for Summerslam. KOR and IYH 2 can be used to put Diesel over more, make Sid look like an absolute monster, build Mabel as a heel better, etc. They had a decent roster at the time, they just needed to use it better & it would've helped.

The biggest thing is probably expectations. Nobody was going to do 1987 numbers in 1995. Recognize that, build guys like Mabel up over months instead of expecting an overnight miracle, don't screw up booking Sid for the SECOND time in a row, etc.

Totally agree about an Allied Powers-Owen/Yoko feud. The idea that the roster was just too weak in 95 requires pretending they didn't have these 4 main eventers, Luger especially under/mid-used, around. Can headline house shows. Along with the tag matches on ppv, they can work various singles matches with runins; instead of running Luger off, book Luger vs Yokozuna 3 for the first night of Nitro, for example. This would also help Diesel too. Something like KOR or an IYH can have Diesel get a big, dominant win over somebody that has name value but not the biggest star (Backlund 2 as a face, 123 Kid as a heel) and still sell tickets & ppv buys with that tag title match & good stuff with Bret, HBK, Razor, Jarrett, etc.


One more possibility for a heel Diesel run in 95. Could they get Piper to do a ppv job for him? That'd make for a big headliner for Summerslam or something.

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If they pay Piper enough for that, make a new 3-hour ppv for September, then back to the irl schedule in Oct.

Some kind of "school" or Fall theme, WWF Homecoming '95 or something.

Diesel vs Rowdy Roddy Piper
Allied Powers vs Yoko/Owen
HBK/Bret/Ramon/Kid vs Sid/Tatanka/Jarrett/Pierre - elimination match, last man standing gets Survivor Series title shot (if more than one from the same team they'll face off at Oct IYH...Bret wins this and does what Piper, HBK, Sid, etc couldnt and beats Diesel)
Undertaker vs King Kong Bundy - big blue cage
and since we're not in self sabotage mode...Alundra has Wendi Richter in her corner to counteract Wippleman vs Bertha Faye or Bull Nakano
 
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