Andrew Lutzke
Presented by Kayfabe Commentaries
Hosted by Sean Oliver
Both men are sitting behind different colored podiums.
What makes a great wrestler? Harley says natural ability and good mental and physical shape. Bruno says you have to go the extra mile in every manner.
How important is amateur wrestling vs. being street tough? Bruno was a amateur wrestler but he found academics to be frightening since he barely spoke the language when he entered American high school. His dad got him a job as a carpenter instead of Bruno going to college due in part to these language barriers. Race was briefly a high school wrestler as well. He ended up as a “shooter” at age 15 fighting all comers at carnivals.
What makes a champion? Race says being able to carry anyone to a good match. Bruno thinks having the X factor to be very important. That magical tangible attribute is the key to success.
Was the WWWF title a real “World” title or just a regional title since it was largely defended in one area? Harley says Bruno was world class regardless of what fans perceived the WWWF title’s significance to be. Bruno says the NWA’s championship model made the champ a villain since he was coming in and taking the local top guys to the limit and often besting them. Bruno was the virtuous champion who had heels come to him and the WWWF fans rallied behind him.
Race puts over Bruno. Bruno talks up Race’s technical abilities. Bruno feels he gained a reputation as a brawler because his rematches that blew off feuds developed into wild affairs quite often to fit the psychology of the situation (A blood feud shouldn’t be technical grappling). The earlier matches would be more grappling based and often weren’t recorded for TV as much as a blow off match might be.
This leads into Bruno calling out Ric Flair for wrestling the same match every night and so Sean turns the questioning to: Is Flair the greatest World Champion ever and is there even a case to be made for him to be ranked as such? Bruno doesn’t think Ric’s anywhere near the top. Flair worked hard but repetious matches that turned Bruno off. Race says Flair is a great talent.
Who is the greatest? Race says possibly himself. Bruno likes the Funks and Lou Thesz.
What would make a great champion? Bruno says drawing the fans and having personal dedication. Race says drawing money and having great matches. Race wrestled everywhere but China and Russia as NWA champion.
Who was a great heel and why? Race says a leader in the ring who can work. Bruno loved Ray Stevens’ heel work. Big moves and flair. Killer Kowalski was a beastly heel.
What makes a great babyface? Harley says “Stand up Bruno”. Bruno adjusted to his opponent’s style. Race liked Verne Gagne and Pat O’Conner’s work as well. Race felt Jack Brisco was one of the best pure babyfaces ever.
Is it harder to succeed as a face or heel? Race says being a face since heels control the match. Sammartino says a villain can be really dastardly and a face has to be sympathetic over a long period of time. Race says you had to keep your character in bars and everywhere else, so problems can exist for both sides outside of the arena.
What does “paying your dues” mean to you? Race says being around the business, Bruno says having to grind out a living for months or years without a push while supporting a family.
Does “playing ribs” have a place in the business? Johnny Valentine replacing Jay York’s asthma inhaler medicine with kerosene is mentioned by Bruno as a case of it going to0 far. Race says Valentine tried to push him too far, so Harley grabbed his gun and stuck it in Valentine’s face. That put an end to Johnny messing with Race.
What part of the USA was the best for wrestling? Harley felt the Midwest was the top spot for a long time then the Carolinas took over. Bruno says the WWWF’s area since they ran so many big arenas. New York was also a great spot to gain publicity. Bruno was over anywhere he traveled thanks to the NY media push.
Why did Bruno choose to stay in the WWWF? Bruno started when WWWF was still “Capitol Wrestling”. Bruno didn’t want to travel around the US wrestling after his first 7 year WWWF title run since he was hurting and burnt out. He made sure to have extra days off after that run. Then the WWWF business dried up without Bruno and he was convinced to comeback for a “short run” that ended up going on for 4 years until Sammartino broke his neck.
What was it about St. Louis that appealed to Harley? It was close to where Race was born and raised. His career started even closer to the city and Race still lives in the area.
Which city was better for wrestling St. Louis or New York? St. Louis ran a similar pattern as MSG in that both had 1 big show a month for many years. St. Louis became a weekly stop eventually as time moved on. Bruno liked NY because the Italians supported him there as well as the publicity.
Bruno, why was Vince Sr. a great promoter? He was fair and kept the talent happy. Bruno scouted talent while touring Japan and Australia and Vince trusted him enough to bring in guys Bruno suggested.
Harley, why was Sam Mushnick a great promoter? Sam ran the NWA in many ways and thus he was able to bring in tons of talent.
What makes a great booker? Race says “imagination”. Harley booked Atlanta when it first was put on national TV. Race says a booker has to make sure not to over push themselves. The talent base was so big then that booking was easy. Bruno booked a small area and made sure to put talent in with talent and give the guys they wanted to draw on TV in prominent roles.
Is wrestling TV better if stars wrestle each other or wrestle jobbers? Bruno says he doesn’t know much about the modern business but it seems that revenue is based on TV rights and advertisements instead of drawing at arenas like in Bruno’s day. Race says jobber matches made stars. It doesn’t matter now since Vince owns everything.
Is it better that fans believed or that they are entertained? Bill Watts, Spiros Arion and Larry Zbyszko all had serious heat while feuding with Bruno. People today still ask Bruno if he still hates Larry. Bruno thinks that kind of passion can only be a good thing.
Who was the greatest play by play announcer? Ray Morgan and Bill Cardell is Sammartino’s answers – he laughs and notes that few people will know them. (Myself included!) Race liked Gordon Solie and Jim Ross. Bruno agrees with the Solie nod.
What is the ref’s role in a match? Race: “Stay out of the way!” He has to maintain control while still letting the guys do their thing.
What do you feel about boxer vs. wrestler matches? Race vehemently opposes such gimmick matches. Race feels they are worse than a freak show. Bruno talks about wrestlers kicking boxer’s butts in real life situations.
Any non wrestler you would have liked to face in the ring? Bruno says before the famous Antonio Inoki vs. Muhammad Ali match took place, it was suppose to be Ali vs. Bruno but Vince Jr. couldn’t find promoters to join him in paying off Ali’s 6 million dollar demands. Japan got wind of it and signed Ali.
Can a woman wrestler ever be the face of a company? Race says no and feels the women’s prime was back in the 60’s and 70’s. Bruno says the women were like midgets and only meant to be a special attraction.
What would you change in wrestling history? Bruno says he’d take away any power Vince Jr. ever acquired. The WWF became a cartoon and the guys were roided to the gills under Vince. Rick McGraw dying of drugs while working for the WWF in ’85 was a sign of things to come. Bruno says the guys make a lot more money now but wrestling lost its family friendly innocence.
Do insider newsletters and the internet help wrestling keep it’s history or kill the business? Bruno says wrestling is so fake now that who cares what people write. There’s no sacred cow to save.
Should a guy stay and watch all the matches or can they leave once they work? Bruno says if you’re a vet, it’s less important but improvements can be had. Prelim guys should be glued to the action though. Race said the main eventers should adjust based on what the undercard had on it.
Should a match end decisively or are screwy endings ok? Both agree a clean win ends the interest in a rematch.
Should a cage match end with a pin or an escape ideally? Bruno says it should be a wild affair and one man is beaten so bad that the other guy can walk away. Race says the cage marked the end of a feud one way or another.
Why is pro wrestling the greatest sport? Bruno says it’s not anymore. Back in his day the fans saw the sport as 2 gladiators colliding and one man rising above the competition. The guys were to be admired for their grit. Race agrees and adds that the fan can also put themselves into the role of their favorite wrestler and live vicariously through their actions in the ring.
Final thoughts: I’ve been waiting a long time to see this one and boy did it not disappoint! I grew chest hair just listening to Harley and Bruno talk. Why are you not watching this?
