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Russia Invades Ukraine

I would say that killing more people in service of a war that is going to end is actually very bad.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1858270574801219731

Yeah see I worry that Democrats are a neocon party because I don't want any part of that shit. But some people are ok with people dying because it fucks with Trump's plans. I would say that a lame duck president killing people when he knows someone else is coming into office, when he knows the country is going in a different direction, when he knows his decision will kill people meaninglessly, I'd say that is absolutely morally repugnant. I don't really wanna hear any of this revisionism about Biden being a good guy or a decent man or any of that shit, the guy is and was a fucking scumbag and that's why we're going to have another scumbag reassume his previous role as president.
 
Anyone who is happy about it because if fucks with Trump is a goof but I am personally conflicted on the weapons issue. I think Ukraine should be able to use the weapons they've been given as they see fit because otherwise there was no point in giving them the fucking weapons in the first point. The best way to bring Russia to the table and get any kind of reasonable deal for Ukraine is to make Russia hurt. I don't want people to die but I think Ukraine should be able to fight as hard as it needs.
 
Yeah, I'm not looking at in a make believe vacuum where Putin isn't invading/attacking/trying to take over Ukraine.
 
I think it's not make believe to think that we walked Ukraine over to the cliff and pushed them off of it. Our post-Obama foreign policy has been a total disaster, and part of the motivation for backing Ukraine in this conflict is that we were mad about Russia and Trump. That's not something that should drive your foreign policy and I don't really find this acceptable. Giving them long range weapons that will lead to tens of thousands more dead Ukrainians is something that just makes people feel good. The status quo is the best case scenario for them in two months. There's nothing wrong with giving them weapons to maintain that status quo, but if you think it's going to get any better for them you're in denial.

They suspended democracy and clamped down on free speech in the name of defending themselves, so we have a scenario where so many people have died and you don't actually know what the people there even want anymore.

Giving them long range weapons is something that could and probably will lead to severe, further Russian reprisal. I am not going to cheerlead it because it would make Republicans mad (which is literally what you said). Biden has had no problem sleepwalking into conflicts that get hundreds of thousands of people killed, so it's hardly surprising. I still feel obligated to point out how dumb it is.
 
I agree with a lot of what 909 is saying but I don't think Ukraine needed to be pushed into fighting. We can argue about America/NATO's role and the morality of arming them to fight against Russia but I absolutely believe they would have tried to fight back either way. They had been pushed too far.

On the morality question I think we have to look at Russia's stated intentions, what they've done to civilians, etc. I think if Ukraine had been left to Russia's mercy it would have emboldened them to continue pushing and that would only lead to more war, and a potentially far more devastating one. It's a hypothetical we likely (and hopefully) will never see play out now though because Russia has suffered so badly in this war.
 
Don’t forget that Russia involved another nations army to fight for them just a month ago.
 
Our friends in Russia have started using intercontinental ballistic missiles.
 
kyivindependent.com

Ukrainian MP from Zelensky's party nominates Trump for Nobel Peace Prize

"It is my belief that Trump has made considerable contributions to world peace, and that he can make more in the future," Merezhko, an MP from Zelensky's Servant of the People party and chairman of the Ukrainian parliament's foreign affairs committee, wrote in his letter.
kyivindependent.com kyivindependent.com
 
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