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Kamala's Random WCW Bullshit thread

strummer

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I remember that JCP/PWI tape snuff mentioned earlier. That was an awesome tape I rented a handful of times. IIRC Apter and Gordon Solie were the hosts. That was my first time seeing anything from Starrcade 83. Remember the dog collar match freaking me out on how violent it was.

It was called Lords of the Ring and was released in 1985
 
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snuffbox

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It was my first exposure to Starrcade 83, too, and Memphis (the Lawler-Kaufman and Savage piledriving Ricky Morton on a table are included), Parade of Champions, etc. They packed a lot of stuff in that hour.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
I just bought a PWI treasury or whatever they would call their "Best of" special mags. It was from the end of 1989 (I bought it because it had an article about the formation of the Team Challenge Series). The back cover was still plugging the 1987 WWF toys, with the added row for the late era LJN figs that are now worth 100+ (Rude, Haku, Warlord, Warrior, Bossman etc)
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
I'd mention how dumb it was for Bischoff to let guys like Foley and Austin go but he was just continuing a long history of stupid WCW booking including Ole Anderson not seeing the dollars in Undertaker.
Austin is an interesting case as they may have had Flair vs Austin penciled in for the end of 94 depending on who you believe.
Even without Hogan coming in, you can't really trust WCW to book Austin on top in a way to draw money.
Flair would have gotten antsy for the belt again, Sting can't chase Austin without winning it unless you want to hurt his already limited drawing power. There's a chance Pillman could have been elevated, but his post Hollywood Blonds booking was fighting with Col Parker over a chicken suit, and then becoming a midcard California gimmick despite having spent the last 6 years being from Ohio and wearing Bengals tights.

Foley had probably peaked in WCW when he left. They botched his big injury angle story with Vader and moved him into a tag team. If he stayed once Hogan came in, he'd be eating boots and leg drops as one of the wacky Dungeon of Doom members.
If Hogan doesn't come in, where does he go? He'd already had 2 runs with Sting. He and Flair could have had a weird Dusty/Flair dynamic with the common slob/Rich cunt gimmicks. He'd been on WCW TV for the most part since late 1989.
I would enjoy seeing Foley in some WCW Sat Night brawls with the Stud Stable. He probably could have been a bizzarro Hacksaw Duggan level guy who was always over, but not pushed past upper mid card.
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I know the matches are fun, but I also don't see the Cruisers doing boffo VHS numbers past maybe the first one. If you have a roster of A listers, a series of VHS tapes are going to be a hard sell when very few of the cruisers were protected in booking.
 

Valeyard

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Austin could've fit lots of places on top. Hogan doesn't come in, Austin/Flair seems extremely likely. Hell if you just keep Duggan from winning the Steamboat feud he's instantly legit. Austin/Sting in 94 actually makes a ton of sense because it gives Sting something to do and Austin gets to hang with the franchise of the company. Same when Savage comes in. Eventually you're forced to push him. He'd just never have been huge in the same way...unless you get to 1996 and he gets DDP's push, and he becomes the mega star. Pillman was still seen as too small, but should have gotten a bigger push years earlier anyway. Austin and Pillman as the Owens and Zayn of WCW kinda works for me, too.

Foley is the perfect Hogan opponent. He'd kill himself to make Hogan look good, not care about losing, and is a fantastic monster to vanquish. Like I could see him getting in Hogan's good graces, like he did with the Clique. Failing that, there is literally always a place for him on the card because he could fit anywhere you needed him. Him in the Dungeon isn't the worst thing, either. He'd elevate it from Saturday morning cartoon to Saturday afternoon special. I can see something with him and Flair doing extremely well, like what Vince and Foley were doing but with a match at the end. Let him and Regal do comedy stuff for the TV title. Inject him into the Duggan/Bubba stuff. Pivot him into the Arn role in the Dustin/Studd Stable feud and let Arn go back with Flair. Foley is just especially frustrating because he can be whatever you need him to be, work with anyone, get himself and anyone else over, and not want much in return.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
And as I mentioned semi recently, even Vince didn't see anything in Austin and Foley. Austin pitched the Stone Cold gimmick himself. At least the Ringmaster was a decent gimmick compared to many other worse options you could have slapped on him. A year earlier and he's "Fitness guru" Austin, running around with Lady Blossom as his counterpart, wearing an ugly singlet and doing push ups as his heat.

And JR likes to tell the story of Vince telling him he was going to sign Foley so JR can learn what heartbreak with a talent is all about, or whatever the exact quote was.
 

snuffbox

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Thank you for acknowledging how dumb McMahon has always been and would've never had any success at literally anything if he hadn't been given everything.
 

Valeyard

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I'm sure he could've been just as prolific a sex offender without help. Maybe not as well dressed.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
The Sid/Flair/Windham/Arn Horsemen are the ones I actually can recall watching. I'm sure I saw the Tully/Arn/Barry/Flair version and the Luger version for sure, but I was like 5-6 years old and they didn't capture my heart and mind like Hogan/Snuka/Andre/JYD/Piper/Hillbilly Jim etc

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Sid's Halloween Havoc ad with Elvira popped me when I was 8. I'm sure I figured Sting was a dead man.

 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
They could've made Thunder work.
A disciplined brand split? IIRC I proposed Sting beating Hogan as being the trigger point of the nWo splitting into factions. Larry would lose to Hall to give the nWo their own show to set it up I guess.
Probably screws things up anyway as Nash and Hogan will still politic to keep their faction looking as strong as the other's.

You can have the Horsemen be splintered by the brand split as well and each side could land new members. Maybe Flair w/ manager Arn rep the Classic Horsemen w/Mongo and Dean and Benoit basically form the Revolution idea on the other show. But they'll need a talking head.

Dungeon of Doom can splinter into one side being comedy monsters and the other group is The First Family.

Eventually whoever you put on Thunder on top would get antsy to be on the A show and shit would get blown up.

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In this scenario I guess that means Dillon is GM for Thunder and maybe you put babyface Dibiase as the Nitro GM? Mean Gene would give gravatas to whatever show he was on. I suppose Lee Marshall would have to be the other side's announcer. Tony S is stuck on Nitro with Larry Z and Heenan and Tenay do Thunder? Maybe rotate Bischoff into the Nitro booth to put over the heel dominated aspect of the show.

I'm not sure how you swing Sting unless you use the Superbrawl or Thunder 1 Sting vs Hogan match to create further controversy and split the World title into 2 belts?
 

Valeyard

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A firm brand split doesn't work any better than it went down in reality, but honestly it's the show Bret should be the focal point of. It should be the workrate show. WCW champ and tag champs show up, but you can easily put the TV title or US title there basically permanently. Run smaller buildings and don't do marathon tapings.No GMs, no tropes. Ostensibly what AEW has tried to do with Collision in terms of a soft split. Reshuffle every now and then, but it isn't like the main event logjam will want to work more than one day a week regardless.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
A firm brand split doesn't work any better than it went down in reality, but honestly it's the show Bret should be the focal point of. It should be the workrate show. WCW champ and tag champs show up, but you can easily put the TV title or US title there basically permanently. Run smaller buildings and don't do marathon tapings.No GMs, no tropes. Ostensibly what AEW has tried to do with Collision in terms of a soft split. Reshuffle every now and then, but it isn't like the main event logjam will want to work more than one day a week regardless.
Your proposing to put the 2nd highest paid guy on the roster on a b-show, with a line up designed to not be able to draw what was still large rabid crowds? I guess you can go straight into Bret vs Flair like what happened IRL and the nWo Civil war can still take the headline slots.
By "workrate" do u mean simply longer matches? Can't really take the luchas and cruisers off Nitro as they have 3 hours to fill.
I guess it could basically be be the Smackdown 6 era type booking where 3 workers carried 3 other not as great guys for a few months of mix and match bookings. Then like RAW/SD, as soon as somebody got over on Thunder Hogan and Nash can rush to see who can kill their push faster on the other show.
I can dig a scenario where Jericho vs Malenko is a major focal point, but the main eventers are too numerous to properly elevate them regardless. Malenko was a vanilla midget, so his ceiling is about where he wound up anyway, but Jericho should have been bursting out in upper card slots by late 98 instead of plotting a WWF escape.

I'm not sure where my brand split bookings leaves WCW Sat Night unless you just do a 2 hour block with the rosters each getting an hour. Plus Worldwide....Pro... I'm not sure when the Main Event was cancelled on Sundays.
 

Valeyard

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The second highest paid guy being the top draw on his own show is infinitely superior to being a midcarder until he gets his head kicked off. It's only a b-show if it gets treated like one, as it was in reality, and if you have the hottest signing since Hogan being the star of a show, it should not be treated like one. Run smaller venues with the non-cruiser workhorses as the backbone of the show. Be an alternative at best. The cruisers would float, ideally, since you need them on Nitro more than anywhere. But a roster that size is perfectly capable of handling Thunder in principle. Have the top guys show up and still have programs but don't make them the focal point.

Thunder absolutely works on any logical level if the company creates the stars, and letting the workers work is the best way WCW ever accomplished that.
 

Big Papa Paegan

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...but Jericho should have been bursting out in upper card slots by late 98 instead of plotting a WWF escape.
This is one of the more frustrating things about WCW around then, and is rightfully seen as a major sign of how bad things were getting.

Jericho going in/out of the main event in WCW wouldn't have saved the company. It wouldn't have boosted ratings, it wouldn't have boosted tickets too much, but he proved time and again in the WWF/E (and even now in AEW) that he can be slotted literally anywhere on the card and make it work.

Let's say Jericho stays but the Radicalz still bail. Who could you slot up to the ME to work with Jarrett, Sid, Nash, and Page? Jericho. You want to have a match that makes the fans still watching happy? Jericho. You want someone to get a rookie over and still be seen as a viable threat to the belt? Jericho.

When people talk about dumb Bischoff decisions, not letting Jericho/Goldberg happen needs to be talked up more.
 

BUTT

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That was a Goldberg problem. He didn't want to have a competitive match with Jericho. And Jericho refused to be squashed.
 

Big Papa Paegan

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That was a Goldberg problem. He didn't want to have a competitive match with Jericho. And Jericho refused to be squashed.
Which means it's a Bischoff problem.

"Bill, I hear you, but you need to understand that this is a guy that everybody knows can work, and he's a solid utility player. Do your fucking job."
 

Gert

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What if we have Jericho beat a little person that looks like Goldberg on PPV?
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6

WCW VHS release I didn't know was a thing.
Amazon review is cute:
This video is great, no there's not matches, not not even interviews, just profiles on all the top WCW stars or what WCW wants you to think are stars. They have nice footage of Sting and Luger, he77 even the Steiners but then after about 4 segments they run out of steam and thats when the video goes from greatness. As in a segment on El Gante (the worst wrestler in history) with footage strickly from the 500 seat Omni in Altana where all the other segments footage is provided from. But hold on they even use the same jobbers on each segment, man cost cutting must be tough. Theres one jobber who has a long red beared, is bald, scrawny, and wears pants resembling OR scrubs, who gets the crap beat out of him by everybody. I've never laughed as hard as I did watching every "superstar" destroy him over and over. Buy this video for the simple reason the old WCW Main Event show has finally came to video.
 

Valeyard

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El Gante is what I imagine a lucha philosopher gimmick might be called.
 

Valeyard

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Wrestlers still can't get A-Listers. Best we've gotten has to be Otunga and Jennifer Hudson.
 

Hawk 34

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Yeah man, George Clooney and Robert Irvine you ain’t at Otunga level.
 
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