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Nuking the Japanese. Cool or not cool?

Cool or not cool?


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BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

KOAB said:
Hitler was pounding New York and Maine?

Upon declaring war on the United States, Adolf Hitler ordered the remaining German saboteurs to wreak havoc on the country. The responsibility for carrying this out was given to German Intelligence (Abwehr). In June 1942, eight agents were recruited and divided into two teams: the first, commanded by George John Dasch, with Ernst Peter Burger, Heinrich Heinck and Richard Quirin; the second, under the command of Edward Kerling, with Hermann Neubauer, Werner Thiel and Herbert Haupt.

On June 12, 1942, the U-boat U-202 landed Dasch's team with explosives and plans at East Hampton, Long Island, New York.[8] Their mission was to destroy power plants at Niagara Falls and three Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) factories in Illinois, Tennessee and New York

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U boats East Coast

Several ships were torpedoed within sight of East Coast cities such as New York and Boston; indeed, some civilians sat on beaches and watched battles between U.S. and German ships.[citation needed] The only documented World War II sinking of a U-boat close to New England shores occurred on May 5, 1945, when the U-853 torpedoed and sank the collier Black Point off Newport, Rhode Island. When the Black Point was hit, the U.S. Navy immediately chased down the sub and began dropping depth charges. The next day, when an oil slick and floating debris appeared, they confirmed that the U-853 and its entire crew had been destroyed. In recent years, the U-853 has become a popular dive site. Its intact hull, with open hatches, is located in 130 feet of water off Block Island, Rhode Island.[15] A wreck discovered in 1991 off the New Jersey coast was concluded in 1997 to be that of U-869.
 

AA484

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

I hate to turn this into a history discussion, but...

Short of not attacking Russia, the conquering of whom was his ultimate goal the entire time, Hitler would never have been able to effectively assault any part of the eastern coast. The U-boats were there, but their effectiveness is highly questionable considering the U.S. was able to transport hundreds of thousands of troops and millions of tons of supplies to Europe throughout the war.

With the exception of the U-boats, the German navy was largely ineffective, with their largest battleship being sunk before the U.S. even entered the war, and their second battleship being bottled up in the Baltic in various states of repair before being put out of commission for good in '44.

Basically three things would have had to happen before Hitler would have feasibly been able to invade:

1. IF Japan would have captured Hawaii (Even if the Japs had called in their "3rd squad" their plan for the fight was faulty to begin with, since they didn't even damage the submarine locks or aircraft carriers, the U.S. Navy's most valuable assets. Japan didn't come prepared to conquer and occupy Pearl Harbor, only to destroy preset targets, which as noted already, were faulty to begin with)
2. IF Germany would have conquered or ignored Britain (Highly unlikely since the Royal Navy would then have been able to completely concentrate on protecting the east coast. Even if they had conquered the country, most likely it would have come at immense material loss, probably delaying their invasion of the U.S. for months if not a year or more. Additionally, the British would most likely have not completely surrendered, since a large percentage of their kingdom's soldiers were spread throughout the globe. Their navy was powerful enough that even if the country was conquered, theirs still would have dwarfed the German navy and been able to assist the U.S.'s Atlantic fleet in a defense of the east coast.
3. IF Germany would have ignored Russia. (Incomprehensible, since Hitler's goal was the conquering of Russia all along.)
 

Dobbs3K

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Hitler was able to attack the US in a limited fashion, but I'm not aware he ever had any serious ambition to invade and occupy any American territory.
 

AA484

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Dobbs3K said:
Hitler was able to attack the US in a limited fashion, but I'm not aware he ever had any serious ambition to invade and occupy any American territory.

He didn't. In fact, he felt the same way about Britain, as he viewed them as potential allies against what he perceived to be the "Bolshevik threat."
 

Vitamin X

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

I know that the Japanese made some small attacks in Oregon and in Goleta, CA (just west of Santa Barbara) so Brody's not exactly nuts, but all of the attacks on North America were minor and in the grand scheme of things, inconsequential. There's a whole wikipedia article dedicated to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_North_America_during_World_War_II
 

vivisectvi

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

BruiserBrody said:
Anyway lets not try to pretend the US was in the wrong in WW2 w/ what happened w/ Japan.

Yeah, let's just pretend that dropping those two nukes was the right thing to do.

Anyway, what the fuck does any of this have to do with an earthquake and a tsunami? I know the answer already: nothing.
 

AA484

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Somebody should split this into a "what if" or general military history thread. That would be pretty cool.
 

BurningPirateShipSex

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

When I was a lad, my papa used to regale us with stories of fighting the Krauts house to house in Harlem.
 

Kahran Ramsus

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Yeah, let's just pretend that dropping those two nukes was the right thing to do.

It was. Those bombs saved millions of lives. There were more casualties in taking Okinawa than in either atomic bomb attack. Just imagine what the casualties would have been like taking Honshu by force.
 

bps21

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Civilians don't sign up
 

snuffbox

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

I used to ride with the "did it to save lives" story too.
 

still fly

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

I'm really starting to tire of you liberal, whiny, PUSSIES apologizing for America. I hate America as much as anyone here, but I consider annihilating the Japs with nukes as a watershed moment in America. Score one for the white man I guess.
 

Kahran Ramsus

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

bps21 said:
Civilians don't sign up

When they are prepared to die to the last man for the war effort, they are involved. A regime change would have done nothing. Their whole culture was based around this. The country needed to be beaten into submission. It was the only way to end the war.

In related news, William Sherman was right too.
 

bps21

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This whole prepared to die to the last man thing I've been hearing since childhood... Clearly they weren't...since they...you know...didn't. And yet it's like they're still making racist comics about it to get us on board.
 

bps21

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Also I'm sure those women and children were thrilled.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Some of you guys don't understand war I guess.

The Civilians of Japan thought we were savages, they kept a US Pilot in the TOKYO ZOO. Its not like we killed a bunch of pacifists for the sake of fun. Japan wanted war, and refused to surrender after getting their ass handed to them through insane battle after battle...so what are we suppose to do as a Nation that they declare war on? Prolong the War for another year or 2 or 2,3,4,5??? Get bogged down in Japan like we did in Europe for long stretches? Or drop a few mega weapons and hope to God the Emperor calls off the war to save his people and his army any more harm?
 

bps21

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Again...we only did it so that the Soviets didn't get the W.
 

Kahran Ramsus

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

bps21 said:
This whole prepared to die to the last man thing I've been hearing since childhood... Clearly they weren't...since they...you know...didn't. And yet it's like they're still making racist comics about it to get us on board.

They were. Their God-Emperor told them to lay down their arms. That's why they did it. That wouldn't have happened without the bombs.

It worked out far better for the Japanese the way it happened. The country would have been destroyed by an invasion, whether it be by the Americans or (even worse) by the Soviets.

It sucks for the civilians killed in the blast, but it was a necessary sacrifice.
 

BruiserBrody

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[quote author=BRODY link=topic=7317.msg606823#msg6
Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Big Dick Bynum Beast Attack Mode said:
I'm really starting to tire of you liberal, whiny, PUSSIES apologizing for America. I hate America as much as anyone here, but I consider annihilating the Japs with nukes as a watershed moment in America. Score one for the white man I guess.

I'm sure all the Chinese and Fillipinos etc who Japan tortured, raped and slaughtered enjoyed the news too :)
 

bps21

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My point is you have Soviet forces on the doorstep planning on taking out the Japanese resistance later that month and the worst case scenario was for them to "win the war". Japan was about to get a big red boot up it's ass and that's why we dropped two Abombs on them. Not because they were all willing to die...because they might have all died at the hands of the Soviets...or worse...surrendered to them.

So our plan involves the deaths of like over a hundred thousand people so that we can claim supremacy in a battle we appeared to be waging with our own side.
 

Kahran Ramsus

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Big Dick Bynum Beast Attack Mode said:
I'm really starting to tire of you liberal, whiny, PUSSIES apologizing for America. I hate America as much as anyone here, but I consider annihilating the Japs with nukes as a watershed moment in America. Score one for the white man I guess.

I'm not an American apologist. There are plenty of times I've thought that the Americans were in the wrong. Hell, I've probably disagreed with their position in more wars than I have agreed with them, starting with the American Revolution. But they were right in this instance.
 

snuffbox

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

If they aint white, fuck em
 

909

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

Yeah because there weren't shitloads of dead Germans during World War II. Coincidentally Germans are white.
 

snuffbox

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If they dont talk American like Jesus did, fuck em
 

909

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

They don't know how to move the goalposts as well as Americans either so they deserved to be punished.
 

BorneAgain

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Nuking the god damn japs. Cool or not cool?

The whole atomic bomb issue is something I'm still debating, though I lean towards it being the preferable action (though the fact men so high up like Eisenhower disagreed with the move does have me wondering).

Not that Japan has much room to talk about the deaths of innocent civilians. Forget Pearl Harbor, the sheer amount of shit they did to the Chinese certainly colors one's sympathy regarding Japan during the war.
 

bps21

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I think I'm coming off wrong here...I don't care that they dropped the bomb...but I hate the perception that we get all of the good and none of the bad when there is clearly both. Own what we did. And this all came from people believing that the tsunami and quake were karma for Pearl Harbor. My point is that internment camps and two Abombs were...you know...sufficient karma.
 

vivisectvi

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Sorry, I don't give a flying fuck what the excuse was. Using a nuke can never be justified. Unleashing that on this planet was pure stupidity. Ps - move this war bullshit elsewhere.
 
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