Oil!

[Twisted Intestine]

Yeah but if you're someone who would usually vote democrate and decide to vote for some kind of third party won't you just be doing the republicans a favour by giving Obama one less vote?

 

[Twisted Intestine]

Everyone should just decide to stop voting, then maybe something will be done about the political system when voters turn out in record lows.

 

[909]

Yeah but if you're someone who would usually vote democrate and decide to vote for some kind of third party won't you just be doing the republicans a favour by giving Obama one less vote?

You would only be doing the Republicans a favor in the interim. Constantly voting the two major parties in and out of the legislative branch every two years would be the best thing for the country and the only real way to get the change that is necessary. I also think that kind of constant changeover is the best way to get some new parties on the scene.

Also a record low would do the job too.

I think though that if we as a people have not figured out that each congressman that's been in office upwards of 12-15 years needs to be gotten rid of then we deserve what we are getting.

 

[bigolsmitty]

I'd argue almost every major problem in the States today is rooted in your staggering lack of choice during elections. Every single election basically boils down to the lesser of two evils. Fact of the matter is, Obama isn't gonna change a fuckin' thing because the same lobbyists and corporations who lined Bush's pockets are lining Obama's. Campaign finance reform would be a good a start but the two party system needs to end or America will continue down the path to ruin. Not that our system is that much better, but I'm glad I'm taking it all in from here in Canada.

copyright Ralph Nader 2004

 

[snuffbox]

That sonofabitch Nader FORCED the Democratic Party to run with John Kerry and his awful campaign.

 

[bigolsmitty]

Nader had every right to run...it was the jaded leftists saying that there was LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE~! between Bush & Gore that I disagreed and disagree with.

Sorry, and I should have said copyright 2000 not 2004. Nader didn't swing the election in 04.

 

[NoCalMike]

A change of the entire system would almost be needed to get people's voting to change.

For all the talk of "lesser of two evils" etc etc....when it comes down to it, the majority of people are still going to vote for a (D) or (R) based on the system we have now, because it still isn't worth letting the opposing party into office. I think it comes down to, no matter how little confidence you have in the candidate chosen by your own party/side/whatever, you are pretty afraid of the consequences of the other candidate getting into office.

This isn't to say I disagree with people who make valid arguments about why a 2-party system sucks.

 

[NoCalMike]

Nader had every right to run...it was the jaded leftists saying that there was LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE~! between Bush & Gore that I disagreed and disagree with.

Sorry, and I should have said copyright 2000 not 2004. Nader didn't swing the election in 04.

Well looking back, I don't know if they meant literal difference in things such as actual political philosophies or more about how they govern. For example, someone like Obama who campaigned as a stronger liberal then he is governing(besides the War issue).

And, I think in 2004, Nader threw his "support" behind Kucinich and said he approved of him. (For what it's worth!?!)

 

[snuffbox]

Beside the War issue? I hope you didn't take it to the bank.

 

[Dobbs3K]

Sounds like they may actually be making progress on plugging the leak, which is now a bigger disaster than the Exxon Valdez spill (if it was in doubt it would become so): http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-top-kill-20100528,0,5782115.story

Engineers have at least temporarily stopped the flow of oil and gas into the Gulf of Mexico from a gushing BP well, the federal government's top oil-spill commander, U.S. Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, said Thursday morning.

The "top kill" effort, launched Wednesday afternoon by industry and government engineers, had pumped enough drilling fluid to block oil and gas spewing from the well, Allen said. The pressure from the well was very low, he said, but persisting. The top kill effort is not complete, officials caution.

Once engineers had reduced the well pressure to zero, they were to begin pumping cement into the hole to entomb the well. To help in that effort, he said, engineers also were pumping some debris into the blowout preventer at the top of the well.

As far as our two party system, it seems so firmly entrenched into the American psyche at this point that it's hard to imagine an alternative third party rising up (on the national level at least).

 

[Master Thrasher]

It bothers me that there was no contingency plan if something should happen to an oil rig. I heard that one of the safety protocols wasn't installed on the rig.

 

[Byron The Bulb]

Nader had every right to run...it was the jaded leftists saying that there was LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE~! between Bush & Gore that I disagreed and disagree with.

For real. The Democrats may be a bunch of incompetent corporate bootlicks with an at best half-a-loaf commitment to actual progressive policies, but the Republicans are literally a party of plutocrats and fascists. Anyone who says there isn't a considerable difference between the two is dumb as shit.

 

[BUTT]

I wonder how many people were swayed towards Nader/away from voting by that Rage Against The Machine video that claimed Bush and Gore were the same people. Michael Moore got Bush elected.

 

[NoCalMike]

Well this of course if you believe Gore didn't really win Florida had all the votes been properly counted?

I think it's foolish to say that there is zero difference between the two parties, but I also think it is fair to say that over the last 30 years in politics, the overall shift of the government has been to the right. One in which anyone left of center is deemed a commie or socialist. Hell, half of the Democratic party barely stand up for the party principles and are wishy-washy about it when they do.

The money in the system is making them more libertarian on economic policy. They might not publicly say it.

 

[snuffbox]

Propping up every big business in the country is not a libertarian concept. If we had an actual free market, all of these awful businesses would fail within a year.

 

[NoCalMike]

Propping up every big business in the country is not a libertarian concept. If we had an actual free market, all of these awful businesses would fail within a year.

Yeah you're right, I didn't mean libertarian. I don't even know what it would be considered, neo-conservative? Corporatism?

 

[Byron The Bulb]

If we had an actual free market, all of these awful businesses would fail within a year.

The "actual free market" doesn't actually exist.

 

[snuffbox]

Yep, you were looking for 'Corporatism'

I am well aware that a free market does not exist. That's a big part of the problem.

 

[Byron The Bulb]

No I mean it won't ever exist, at least not at a scale the size of a modern nation-state.

 

[ericmm]

From what I gather:

Right now the top kill is pumping mud down onto the oil coming up, so that's why you see mud coming out of the leak.

This is what we call a stopgap, as I wonder whether, once they stop PUMPING the "mud", which is actually a patented heavy metal slurry, the oil pressure doesn't just push it out again. They need to plug it.

Stopgap.

 

[Vitamin X]

This is what we call a stopgap, as I wonder whether, once they stop PUMPING the "mud", which is actually a patented heavy metal slurry, the oil pressure doesn't just push it out again. They need to plug it.

Stopgap.

Sounds like they may actually be making progress on plugging the leak, which is now a bigger disaster than the Exxon Valdez spill (if it was in doubt it would become so): http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-top-kill-20100528,0,5782115.story

Engineers have at least temporarily stopped the flow of oil and gas into the Gulf of Mexico from a gushing BP well, the federal government's top oil-spill commander, U.S. Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, said Thursday morning.

The "top kill" effort, launched Wednesday afternoon by industry and government engineers, had pumped enough drilling fluid to block oil and gas spewing from the well, Allen said. The pressure from the well was very low, he said, but persisting. The top kill effort is not complete, officials caution.

Once engineers had reduced the well pressure to zero, they were to begin pumping cement into the hole to entomb the well. To help in that effort, he said, engineers also were pumping some debris into the blowout preventer at the top of the well.
...

 

[ericmm]

So's posting..?

:-X

 

[snuffbox]

No I mean it won't ever exist, at least not at a scale the size of a modern nation-state.

You could be right, unfortunately.

 

[Czech]

This isn't to say I disagree with people who make valid arguments about why a 2-party system sucks.

If we had numerous substantial parties like parliamentary republics do, or even just one sizable third party to reckon with, we'd piss and moan about legislative gridlock even more than we already do. Americans don't really want representative democracy. More than the most royalist of Britons could ever dream, we just want to be ruled by benevolent kings who put on traveling rock concerts at sports venues. Sometimes we get a mean old king who does too much ill-advised deciding, but that's the natural cycle of things. They can't all be King Ronald or King Barack or Camelot.

 

[Dobbs3K]

Sometimes I don't think having a Roman style dictator would be the worst thing.

 

[BurningPirateShipSex]

Americans don't really want representative democracy. More than the most royalist of Britons could ever dream, we just want to be ruled by benevolent kings who put on traveling rock concerts at sports venues. Sometimes we get a mean old king who does too much ill-advised deciding, but that's the natural cycle of things. They can't all be King Ronald or King Barack or Camelot.

 

[ericmm]

So Top Kill officially failed.

So now they'll try ... Plan C?

I hope it works, but it's looking like we just don't have the ability to fix this leak, all we can do is drill relief wells. Which will take at least 2 more months.

That's...a lot of oil.

 

[Urban Warfare]

PORT FOURCHON, La. — Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday that federal authorities have opened criminal and civil investigations into the nation's worst oil spill, and BP lost billions in market value when shares dropped in the first trading day since the company failed yet again to plug the gusher.

Good news.

But since I'm a cynical bastard, I doubt anything will come of it.

 

[Danville_Wrestling]

PORT FOURCHON, La. — Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday that federal authorities have opened criminal and civil investigations into the nation's worst oil spill, and BP lost billions in market value when shares dropped in the first trading day since the company failed yet again to plug the gusher.

Good news.

But since I'm a cynical bastard, I doubt anything will come of it.

Is it really good news? I'm sure some American workers who hold shares in BP suffered from the timing of that announcement but that's my cynical nature coming through there. Also, I've seen some BP boycotts gaining steam in several local communities. However, those are just hurting local franchise owners more than actually hurting BP's bottom line.

I've heard a growing call to nuke the well but nothing like that has ever been done before and I HIGHLY doubt we're going to do it because of Obama's anti-nuclear stance and because of the consequence if such an action were to fail. I guess this thing will just keep leaking until Christmas.

 

[Mattdotcom]

Palin's got it all figured out, guys.

http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20100605/OPINION/6050331