Byron The Bulb
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Gert said:
No.
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Tennis
- Thread starter Byron The Bulb
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No.
Meh. I don't buy the whole "Roddick would be so much more successful if Fed & Nadal weren't around" line of thinking. Has he been unlucky enough to face Fed more than most guys? Yes. But a couple of points should be considered:
1) It's not just Fed that has bounced this guy from slams. Guys like Baghdatis, Cilic, even fucking Tipsarevic have managed to eliminated him from these tournaments, nevermind the likes of Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, etc.
2) Considering the above fact, without Federer and/or Nadal, the seeding of every major over the past 7 years or so gets completely messed up, and who knows who Roddick faces then? Who's to say he doesn't get beaten by someone from the half of the field he didn't play on, or that Federer bounced himself?
3) If ANYONE has the argument to be made that they might be even more successful minus one player, it's Federer, ironically enough. If he's not playing at the same time as a prime Nadal, who is arguably the greatest clay court player of all-time, he'd conceivably have a handful of French Open titles (and possibly some seasonal sweeps of the majors), because NO ONE ELSE beats Federer at Roland Garros since '05. Hell, Nadal's the only guy to beat him at Wimbledon since '03. That's insane.
1) It's not just Fed that has bounced this guy from slams. Guys like Baghdatis, Cilic, even fucking Tipsarevic have managed to eliminated him from these tournaments, nevermind the likes of Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, etc.
2) Considering the above fact, without Federer and/or Nadal, the seeding of every major over the past 7 years or so gets completely messed up, and who knows who Roddick faces then? Who's to say he doesn't get beaten by someone from the half of the field he didn't play on, or that Federer bounced himself?
3) If ANYONE has the argument to be made that they might be even more successful minus one player, it's Federer, ironically enough. If he's not playing at the same time as a prime Nadal, who is arguably the greatest clay court player of all-time, he'd conceivably have a handful of French Open titles (and possibly some seasonal sweeps of the majors), because NO ONE ELSE beats Federer at Roland Garros since '05. Hell, Nadal's the only guy to beat him at Wimbledon since '03. That's insane.
Gert
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Don't get me wrong, I think Roddick would only be around 3 -5 Majors, but that would certainly put him on that next tier of great tennis players. I actually think his best tennis in a Slam was the '07 US Open when he lost to Federer in the Semi's. I think he had some ungodly amount of 1st Serves in (I believe is was 82% thru the first two sets).
I would tend to agree with your argument that the most majors lost was Federer because most people consider him the 3rd Greatest Clay Court player of all-time.
It is interesting to think how the careers of Davydenko and Djoker would be different right now without Federer. I thought Djokovic was ready to make that leap after the '08 AO, especially after his '07 Major runs.
I would tend to agree with your argument that the most majors lost was Federer because most people consider him the 3rd Greatest Clay Court player of all-time.
It is interesting to think how the careers of Davydenko and Djoker would be different right now without Federer. I thought Djokovic was ready to make that leap after the '08 AO, especially after his '07 Major runs.
A Happy Medium
Integral Poster
Blowing and swallowing Federer must be the closest one could get to tasting and swallowing perfection.
It's true, Fed is the illest. I'll not bother with the Fed/Laver debate, but it's pretty safe to say that we as tennis fans are witnessing one of the truly special kind of athletes in Roger.
Anyway, Federer just got done putting it Tsonga's butt, 6-2,6-3,6-2. Tsonga was definitely off his game, though, looking hampered by both abdominal issues and just a general inability to get any rhythm going. It's unfortunate, as I think the pressure is really building to start delivering on the hopes people have for him. He's already older than "next-gen" guys like Murray, Djokovic & del Potro, but hasn't had the same level of success as them. Plus, he's already had a string of injuries, and being a relatively big guy playing the physical style that he does, they're not going to get any easier with age.
Anyway, Federer just got done putting it Tsonga's butt, 6-2,6-3,6-2. Tsonga was definitely off his game, though, looking hampered by both abdominal issues and just a general inability to get any rhythm going. It's unfortunate, as I think the pressure is really building to start delivering on the hopes people have for him. He's already older than "next-gen" guys like Murray, Djokovic & del Potro, but hasn't had the same level of success as them. Plus, he's already had a string of injuries, and being a relatively big guy playing the physical style that he does, they're not going to get any easier with age.
Rendclaw
Integral Poster
Agreed. If he got into any kind of rhythm with his serve, he might have gone to a tiebreak in each set, but Federer is just too good. And you can't even hate the guy. If he was an asshole of some sort it would be easy, but by all accounts he's a good guy.
It has always killed me that tennis is such a grind, a guy in his late 20 is considered old. Makes what Agassi did well into his 30s more amazing by comparison.
It has always killed me that tennis is such a grind, a guy in his late 20 is considered old. Makes what Agassi did well into his 30s more amazing by comparison.
Well, good technique helps. Right now, there's a ton of guys destroying their bodies playing like coked up Michael Changs, running down balls like madmen, taking giant hacks with their ground strokes and lunging for stick saves. Comparatively, someone like Fed actually use proper footwork and anticipates shots.
My friend brought up the fact that Federer is able to dominate so many elite players while refuting to any categorical superlatives:
- He has a high first serve percentage and nails plenty of aces with a serve that rarely breaks 125mph.
- He possesses one of the game's best forehands and hits tons of winners, without the smashing power of a del Potro, Gonzo, etc.
- He's an excellent mover, but his foot speed doesn't nearly match most of game's best counterpunchers like Nadal, Djokovic, etc.
Sports fans in general are more likely to be enamored by displays of physical prowess than superb technique, and thus there always seems to be something of a jolt to commentators and the like when a physically unassuming technician like Fed beats superior athletes on court.
On his personality: I love the guy (obviously), but while widely respected, he's never been the most well-liked player. He's known to keep a relatively "professional" attitude towards most other players, and for whatever reason, any bit of semi-harsh straight shooting (eg- mentioning that he MIGHT just be more talented than other players) rubs people like McKendry the wrong way, nevermind that everyone except Johnny Mac seem eager for anyone to take him out.
My friend brought up the fact that Federer is able to dominate so many elite players while refuting to any categorical superlatives:
- He has a high first serve percentage and nails plenty of aces with a serve that rarely breaks 125mph.
- He possesses one of the game's best forehands and hits tons of winners, without the smashing power of a del Potro, Gonzo, etc.
- He's an excellent mover, but his foot speed doesn't nearly match most of game's best counterpunchers like Nadal, Djokovic, etc.
Sports fans in general are more likely to be enamored by displays of physical prowess than superb technique, and thus there always seems to be something of a jolt to commentators and the like when a physically unassuming technician like Fed beats superior athletes on court.
On his personality: I love the guy (obviously), but while widely respected, he's never been the most well-liked player. He's known to keep a relatively "professional" attitude towards most other players, and for whatever reason, any bit of semi-harsh straight shooting (eg- mentioning that he MIGHT just be more talented than other players) rubs people like McKendry the wrong way, nevermind that everyone except Johnny Mac seem eager for anyone to take him out.
Rendclaw
Integral Poster
Well, Johnny Mac comes from an era where there were several really dominant players, and until Lendl went on his run, you could sit down and watch a tournament, and you didn't think a final was a forgone conclusion between one or two players.... it was more like five to seven. He's been railing for years about there needs to be more personality in tennis, even though he was one of the catalysts for why personality got legislated out of tennis.
And while I agree with you about your take about Fed, it was the same thing when the Williams sisters were running roughshod over everyone and women's tennis was boring, despite Martina Hingis' thinly veiled insults flung their way. Men's tennis has been boring for awhile, and a mildly robotic Fed is not what the sport needs, even though the man is amazing to watch from a purely technical standpoint.
Another point is that most of the American commentators and fans have been waiting for an American to rise up and take over men's tennis and put those dirty European countries back in their place. Remember Justin Gimelstob, and how he was given the crown prematurely? Mardy Fish was getting that push for a little while until it was obvious that he wasn;t good enough to beat Fed and Nadal on a regular basis. James Blake had that put on him too for a minute. That's also the reason why people got so behind Roddick when Connors was coaching him. Most American fans want it how it was when McEnroe and Connors (and to a much lesser extent Arthur Ashe) were beating everyone in the world with regularity in the 70s and early 80s.
And while I agree with you about your take about Fed, it was the same thing when the Williams sisters were running roughshod over everyone and women's tennis was boring, despite Martina Hingis' thinly veiled insults flung their way. Men's tennis has been boring for awhile, and a mildly robotic Fed is not what the sport needs, even though the man is amazing to watch from a purely technical standpoint.
Another point is that most of the American commentators and fans have been waiting for an American to rise up and take over men's tennis and put those dirty European countries back in their place. Remember Justin Gimelstob, and how he was given the crown prematurely? Mardy Fish was getting that push for a little while until it was obvious that he wasn;t good enough to beat Fed and Nadal on a regular basis. James Blake had that put on him too for a minute. That's also the reason why people got so behind Roddick when Connors was coaching him. Most American fans want it how it was when McEnroe and Connors (and to a much lesser extent Arthur Ashe) were beating everyone in the world with regularity in the 70s and early 80s.
Gert
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I think another underrated (how is any part of his game UNDERrated?) part of Federer's game are his backhands. He uses it as a defensive shot about 80 percent of the time, but just gets that perfect amount of spin and depth that rarely can an opponent make an aggressive winner level shot off of it.
Everybody enjoy the Finals, apparently the wife decided it would be best if we would pay our cable bills when we feel like it
Everybody enjoy the Finals, apparently the wife decided it would be best if we would pay our cable bills when we feel like it
Byron The Bulb
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Rendclaw
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That new aggressive style of play of Justine's is not going to get it done against someone who can regularly crack 120 MPH on the first serve like Serena or Venus, and can easily match her power. That, and Justine is only 5'5". There is only so much power she can generate, and its not quite enough. She can;t rely upon it, but I understand why she changed her game so radically. Its Michael Chang Syndrome. At some point in their career, highly mobile/scrambling players get sick and tired of running down every ball, and they try and develop a power serve. It never works in the long term.
Good run for Justine, though. That match went about they way I thought it would, even if I was rooting for Serena to bury her. If she can get her service game more stable, she will truly be dangerous.
Good run for Justine, though. That match went about they way I thought it would, even if I was rooting for Serena to bury her. If she can get her service game more stable, she will truly be dangerous.
Fed wins his 4th Aussie, 16th major overall, 6-3, 6-4, 7-6 (13-11). He largely whooped on Murray early, as Andy's forehand was weak and his first serve nowhere to be found. However, he made a good comeback in the third, taking more risks and getting an early break, and Fed started to look a bit complacent. The tie-break produced some great tennis, with some great volleying and passing shots from both guys, but Fed does as he usually does, and now gets to throw another title into the Scrooge McDuck-esque vault.
Rendclaw
Integral Poster
I didn't doubt that he would take it badly, considering he has the expectations of an entire nation on his shoulders.... Those expectations practically killed Tim Henman's career, so Andy is next in line to shoulder that burden.
Big Beard Booty Daddy
Canadian Destroyer213
Lei Tong said:
I've never been a fan Fed, and when he made that back-handed compliment towards Murray, I was hoping he'd punch him in the face. I'm only wishing that the press finds out that Tiger's next mistress is Fed. That would make my day.
So anyone else watching the French? There's already been some high-profile implosions (Safina, Monfils), but the top seeds on both the men's and women's sides playing mostly as they should makes Federer/Nadal & Williams/Williams look like probable finals.
Byron The Bulb
Byron the bulb
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lol Roddick.
Murray & Tsonga continue the tradition of flakiness with first week exits. Venus was bounced by half of the Big Babe Smash Unit, but then it was ridiculous for her to be seeded so high in the first place, just like with Bald Andy.
Rendclaw
Integral Poster
Stosur has a solid chance at winning this, after taking care of Henin.
The Truth
Integral Poster
Anyone watching this Melzer/Djokovic match? Crazy stuff.
Big Green
Integral Poster
This is the biggest win in the history of this grand sport......
This is the biggest win in the history of our great sport.
Schiavone takes the women's French Open.
This is the biggest win in the history of our great sport.
Schiavone takes the women's French Open.
tonyjaymz03
Kinsey
This is the biggest win in the history of this grand sport......
What feels liken the on time BG comes to the Sports folder, and it's to make a wrestling reference...
I'm sure there is a wrestling facepalm picture I could post...
What feels liken the on time BG comes to the Sports folder, and it's to make a wrestling reference...
I'm sure there is a wrestling facepalm picture I could post...
Danville_Wrestling
Danville_Wrestling
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This is the biggest win in the history of this grand sport......
Like this (it's even Italian):
Like this (it's even Italian):
KOAB
KOAB
This is the biggest win in the history of this grand sport......
ah shit my niggah slick willie givin this win da wink dats means as usual with the winners of these things he's gonna be giving her pink something to wink bout.
Big Green said:
ah shit my niggah slick willie givin this win da wink dats means as usual with the winners of these things he's gonna be giving her pink something to wink bout.
This is the biggest win in the history of this grand sport......
Stating the obvious, but uh...
http://www.therealtsm.com/index.php?topic=2433.0
Stating the obvious, but uh...
http://www.therealtsm.com/index.php?topic=2433.0
Psycho Penguin
Integral Poster
Federer is having some issues here in the 1st round of Wimbledon, was down 2 sets and got to a tiebreaker in the 4th set, but now it's going to the 5th set.